Objective Definition of "Good" and "Bad"

WhiffleBallTonyWhiffleBallTony Headliner
edited February 2009 in History of Rock
So, I know that just about everyone here (including me) thinks of the words "good" and "bad" (in terms of music) are very subjective and hold no factual weight.

However, I've been thinking about if there actually can be a true factual definition of the words. After thinking about this, I came up with something that I believe in.

I think good should be defined as how well an artist/band is able to get the sound that they envision.

Basically, if an album ends up being exactly how a given band envisioned it in their mind, then it's amazing. But if Katy Perry wants to make a catchy, chart-topping single, but it ends up coming out as an erratic progressive death metal song, then it is absolutely horrible.

The thing about this is that the only way to truly judge music with this definition is if you are actually the artist, which of course we aren't. However, I think it's actually a good definition. What do you guys think?

Comments

  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    i can't agree with that definition, partially because i feel many truly great musical moments are quite accidental (or at the very least unplanned).
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Good is what is expected and acceptable to society as a whole. Bad the characteristic of being something other than what is accpeted by society as a whole.
    In short good = boring, bad = interesting :D
  • WhiffleBallTonyWhiffleBallTony Headliner
    edited February 2009
    afterstasis;1960763 said:
    i can't agree with that definition, partially because i feel many truly great musical moments are quite accidental (or at the very least unplanned).
    I can feel this. Maybe a more accurate description would be how well the artists feel about their finished product?
    MronoC;1960793 said:
    Good is what is expected and acceptable to society as a whole. Bad the characteristic of being something other than what is accpeted by society as a whole.
    In short good = boring, bad = interesting :D
    That's a pretty close-minded opinion.
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
    I still think it's subjective. Your definition in itself relies on the subjective opinion of the bands in question.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    WhiffleBallTony;1961143 said:
    I can feel this. Maybe a more accurate description would be how well the artists feel about their finished product?
    even then there are loads of examples where i strongly disagree, particularly after some artists grow old and think their older (and far superior) material is weak and/or amateur.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    I think it's impossible to give a clear cut definition of "bad music", to be honest.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    instantdeath999;1961159 said:
    I think it's impossible to give a clear cut definition of "bad music", to be honest.
    yep... as convenient as it would ultimately be, it's totally impossible.
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    WhiffleBallTony;1961143 said:
    I can feel this. Maybe a more accurate description would be how well the artists feel about their finished product?



    That's a pretty close-minded opinion.
    Something can still be good if the creator of it ends up dismissing it, Rivers Cuomo spoke ill of Pinkerton shortly after its release, but that doesn't make it a bad album, and, for a non-musical example, Wes Craven seems to be doing everything in his power to escape from his older work, but that doesn't mean that the remake of Last House on the Left won't suck compared to the original.

    Also, my first post was partly a joke, and partly a way of saying that any non-subjective definition of good or bad would be totally contradictory to anyone with a mind of their own.
  • WingsOfSteelWingsOfSteel Headliner
    edited February 2009
    Good - A band I like
    Bad - A band I don't like
    The Worst S***-Suckers to Ever Pick Up Instruments - A band you like that I don't.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Good and bad are the singular most annoying words in the English language, using them should be a crime. We use an amazingly rich and complex language, and people stick to the safe carmel centre when the nougat and hazelnut around that is far superior, and the chocolate outside the very best.
    I think one should choose a word or phrase that describes how they really feel about a band. I mean it's all very easy to call brokeNCYDE (my pet 'bad band' I think) simply 'bad', but why not take it up a notch, call them a symptom of the myspace generation, a product of inanity and the F5 key, coupled with a total lack of education moral, poetic or musical. I think it's hard to contest these points, even if you do enjoy the band.
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Lolicat;1962136 said:
    Good and bad are the singular most annoying words in the English language, using them should be a crime. We use an amazingly rich and complex language, and people stick to the safe carmel centre when the nougat and hazelnut around that is far superior, and the chocolate outside the very best.
    I think one should choose a word or phrase that describes how they really feel about a band. I mean it's all very easy to call brokeNCYDE (my pet 'bad band' I think) simply 'bad', but why not take it up a notch, call them a symptom of the myspace generation, a product of inanity and the F5 key, coupled with a total lack of education moral, poetic or musical. I think it's hard to contest these points, even if you do enjoy the band.
    Trapped inside a lexicological candy bar... that is the best metaphor ever.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    MronoC;1962193 said:
    Trapped inside a lexicological candy bar... that is the best metaphor ever.
    I think it held up quite well, and although I wish I had made it a more exotic chocolate bar.
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
    I always thought the most annoying word was 'like'. Come on, people! It's not a gosh derned comma!
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962210 said:
    I always thought the most annoying word was 'like'. Come on, people! It's not a gosh derned comma!
    it's basically the equivalent of "uhh", "umm", "erm", etc.

    edit: that said, I'm totally guilty of using it frequently
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962210 said:
    I always thought the most annoying word was 'like'. Come on, people! It's not a gosh derned comma!
    I enjoy using it in conversation, it makes me feel giggly and inane, I don't like being a total pretentious English student all the time. My last essay came with a note saying I had an 'idiosyncratic' way of citing texts though, because I always tart them up. I think it was when I said critics 'danced merrily around' some point or another that annoyed my tutor.
  • WhiffleBallTonyWhiffleBallTony Headliner
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962210 said:
    I always thought the most annoying word was 'like'. Come on, people! It's not a gosh derned comma!
    I must admit that I, like, sometimes do that.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    WhiffleBallTony;1962383 said:
    I must admit that I, like, sometimes do that.
    Like, o my God, like, me too, like!
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    I mean it's, like, if you were to stop talking, the pause would be, like, awkward, but you don't want to just, like, murmur and stuff like that.
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
    It gets annoying when everyone says it around 10-15 times per sentence. I've counted and got numbers like that.
  • MronoCMronoC Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962536 said:
    It gets annoying when everyone says it around 10-15 times per sentence. I've counted and got numbers like that.
    were they run-on sentences?
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    I am guilty of misusing "like" on occasion, but others my age make my problem nearly non-existent.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    I adore slang English. I don't like traditional colloquialisms unless they're ironic, and detest internet slang, but other than that, slang is something I adore.
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
    I love old slang that no one uses anymore, primarily because no one uses it, haha. My language in the real world tends to be an odd mix of old slang, ye olde English, eloquent language, weird intentional mispronunciations, French and purposeful misuse of words.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962751 said:
    I love old slang that no one uses anymore, primarily because no one uses it, haha. My language in the real world tends to be an odd mix of old slang, ye olde English, eloquent language, weird intentional mispronunciations, French and purposeful misuse of words.
    I actually read a couple of the first issues of Spiderman a little while ago... it was like a different language :eek:
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Hungryfreak;1962751 said:
    I love old slang that no one uses anymore, primarily because no one uses it, haha. My language in the real world tends to be an odd mix of old slang, ye olde English, eloquent language, weird intentional mispronunciations, French and purposeful misuse of words.
    I dump some German and Latin into my speech, and try to juxtapose the grosteque and vulgar with eloquent language. Hence, I'll try to describe as poetically as possible some sick crime, and then swear like a sailor talking about something cutesy.
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited February 2009
    instantdeath999;1962764 said:
    I actually read a couple of the first issues of Spiderman a little while ago... it was like a different language :eek:
    Gee whillikers, I do quite enjoy being hip with yon lingo, si tu sais que je dis.
  • Alright_ComputerAlright_Computer Butt Neck
    edited February 2009
    I liek, liek, use, liek, the word, "liek", liek, too many, liek, times.

    Intentional misspellings FTW!
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Alright_Computer;1963077 said:
    I liek, liek, use, liek, the word, "liek", liek, too many, liek, times.

    Intentional misspellings FTW!
    I haet to admit it, but I liek that too.
  • Alright_ComputerAlright_Computer Butt Neck
    edited February 2009
    Lolicat;1963224 said:
    I haet to admit it, but I liek that too.
    Liek, it's liek, amazzing!
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