You crazy kids and your sub genres

warthogdbwarthogdb Opening Act
edited March 2009 in History of Rock
So I decided to check out this whole last.fm thing and I can't help but notice that my joining has brought the average age of the membership up about 4 or 5 years.

Anyway, so I read some of the comments on the songs and it seems that there are often barbs flying over someone mislabeling the song into the wrong sub genre. Like "Emo rulz!" then "Hey bro, this isn't emo, dog." These arguments persist here as well.

I know that we are a generation or two removed from my youth and today's bands are being influenced by the bands that were influenced by the bands I grew up with. The only thing that I can figure is that you crazy kids have so much of a wide variety of great music available to you with the internet and all that you feel the need to be cliquish and subdivide.

We had cliques too but they were far more inclusive and less fragmented. Of course punk and metal were a lot less accepted so kids were more drawn together. All we had was top 40 radio and the college station that you could barley pick up in the suburbs.

What gives? Why does it matter? Why can't I just start a rock band instead of starting a jam-death-stoner-power-metal band?

Comments

  • harbingerofdoomharbingerofdoom Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    warthogdb;2022331 said:
    Why can't I just start a rock band instead of starting a jam-death-stoner-power-metal band?
    you can... its just that rock music is categorized differently than jam-death-stoner-power-metal music.

    :)

    seriously though... i can understand the desire to have so many subs and categories, but in general i dont really pay that much attention to it. most people dont really know what they are talking about (the difference between them and me is that i admit it). and then you have the few around here that actually do understand it and know it well. you will be able to figure out who they are pretty quickly. ask them and they can explain the benifits much better than i can.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Sub-genres are fun. I am sexually aroused by them.
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited February 2009
    warthogdb;2022331 said:
    So What gives? Why does it matter? Why can't I just start a rock band instead of starting a jam-death-stoner-power-metal band?
    Nothing gives. Somewhere along the way Mayhem made a black metal album, Morbid Angel made a death metal album and Helloween made a power metal album and all three musical movements, while still heavy metal, were so radically different that music journalists coined the term. Of course, you have plenty of idiots who mis-use the term and plenty of self-righteous *****s who make it their duty to police the usage of it.

    Some sub-genres are so narrow and nebulous that its just plain dumb, I do agree. But even look at the 70's: Psychadelia, hard rock, heavy metal, progressive rock, rockabilly, folk rock, blues, southern rock, and jazz fusion makes up a Classic Rock radio setlist, among others. Its just that with the internet, journalistic musical terms have spread like a plague and every dumb kid with an identity crisis has to attach themself to something ridiculous. But believe me, sub-genres are journalistic in nature, when used properly.

    (Im sorry but some people's little subgenres of 5 bands are just silly. Just throw in black metal at www.metal-archives.com to see a list of 16,000 different black metal bands, for example.)
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2022712 said:

    (Im sorry but some people's little subgenres of 5 bands are just silly. Just throw in black metal at www.metal-archives.com to see a list of 16,000 different black metal bands, for example.)
    This. Small sub-genres just beg to be liquidated and shoved under 'blah blah, with a heavy blah blah influence'.
  • FizzelerFizzeler Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    Lolicat;2022731 said:
    This. Small sub-genres just beg to be liquidated and shoved under 'blah blah, with a heavy blah blah influence'.
    With the exception of this metal Sub-Genre:
    Prog. Metal :D
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited February 2009
    Fizzeler;2022737 said:
    With the exception of this metal Sub-Genre:
    Prog. Metal :D
    http://www.metal-archives.com/browseG.php?g=prog
  • FizzelerFizzeler Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2022747 said:
    Wow I had no idea :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited February 2009
    Fizzeler;2022758 said:
    Wow I had no idea :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    You know, I decided about 3 and a half years ago that I was gonna try to be all hip and **** and buy every new metal album that came out. About $400 dollars and 3 weeks later while missing lots of metal albums that were released later I decided it was impossible. It was humanly impossible to listen to it all the amount it deserved and I was doing it because I was a ****ing dumbass. So I decided that every little hip new metal band out there and every little metal kid who's "in" it and has listened to everything on the planet comes out immediately can go die in a fire, because its not possible. Now I stick to about 1 album a month, 2 if its a good month.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2022784 said:
    You know, I decided about 3 and a half years ago that I was gonna try to be all hip and **** and buy every new metal album that came out. About $400 dollars and 3 weeks later while missing lots of metal albums that were released later I decided it was impossible. It was humanly impossible to listen to it all the amount it deserved and I was doing it because I was a ****ing dumbass. So I decided that every little hip new metal band out there and every little metal kid who's "in" it and has listened to everything on the planet comes out immediately can go die in a fire, because its not possible. Now I stick to about 1 album a month, 2 if its a good month.
    If anyone could put up with that much metal... :/
  • warthogdbwarthogdb Opening Act
    edited February 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2022712 said:
    Nothing gives. Somewhere along the way Mayhem made a black metal album, Morbid Angel made a death metal album and Helloween made a power metal album and all three musical movements, while still heavy metal, were so radically different that music journalists coined the term. Of course, you have plenty of idiots who mis-use the term and plenty of self-righteous *****s who make it their duty to police the usage of it.

    Some sub-genres are so narrow and nebulous that its just plain dumb, I do agree. But even look at the 70's: Psychadelia, hard rock, heavy metal, progressive rock, rockabilly, folk rock, blues, southern rock, and jazz fusion makes up a Classic Rock radio setlist, among others. Its just that with the internet, journalistic musical terms have spread like a plague and every dumb kid with an identity crisis has to attach themself to something ridiculous. But believe me, sub-genres are journalistic in nature, when used properly.

    (Im sorry but some people's little subgenres of 5 bands are just silly. Just throw in black metal at www.metal-archives.com to see a list of 16,000 different black metal bands, for example.)
    You are right. Classic rock is a melting pot of genres that everyone just kind of excepts without differentiation because they were raised on fm radio and it was always presented to them in that way. There weren't any "self-righteous *****s who made it their duty to police the usage of it."

    Generations later, the family tree is so broad. We all have the same great grand parents but we don't associate with our distant cousins. It boils down to the fact the three bands you mentioned had more common influences while the next generation was heavily influenced specifically by these band's innovations.

    There have always been guardians of cool but I think that everything is more fragmented than ever. I just find it funny when I see two kids arguing over whether or not the Ramones are punk or what sub genre from 2008 they fit into.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited February 2009
    Lolicat;2022802 said:
    If anyone could put up with that much metal... :/
    i'd say i spin a bare minimum of 5 new metal albums per month, though i stick almost exclusively to black and doom metal these days.

    i'm definitely not hip or trying to listen just for the sake of saying i have, but there's a lot of exciting stuff being made (and being dug up from the past).
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited February 2009
    afterstasis;2023722 said:
    i'd say i spin a bare minimum of 5 new metal albums per month, though i stick almost exclusively to black and doom metal these days.

    i'm definitely not hip or trying to listen just for the sake of saying i have, but there's a lot of exciting stuff being made (and being dug up from the past).
    I rarely listen to metal ever. Black and Doom are the last bastions of great metal though.
  • BlackwaterParkBlackwaterPark Opening Act
    edited February 2009
    warthogdb;2023633 said:
    You are right. Classic rock is a melting pot of genres that everyone just kind of excepts without differentiation because they were raised on fm radio and it was always presented to them in that way. There weren't any "self-righteous *****s who made it their duty to police the usage of it."

    Generations later, the family tree is so broad. We all have the same great grand parents but we don't associate with our distant cousins. It boils down to the fact the three bands you mentioned had more common influences while the next generation was heavily influenced specifically by these band's innovations.

    There have always been guardians of cool but I think that everything is more fragmented than ever. I just find it funny when I see two kids arguing over whether or not the Ramones are punk or what sub genre from 2008 they fit into.
    I pretty much agree with this view. Sub-genres are useful to describe how a band sounds: if you tell me that some band that I've never heard of is "metal," then that doesn't really give me any information, but if you say "progressive black/viking metal" then I at least have some idea of what to expect.
  • My name is FezMy name is Fez Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    Eh, as music has evolved, so has the need for new genres. I've said it before and again, but we need ways to differentiate Metallica, Mastodon and Opeth.

    The problem is that too many people get hung up on labels and argue incessantly about which sub-genre this band falls into, which minute genre this album takes influences from, and etc.

    Stoner-jam-death-boss-gloom-whatever is a bit much, but it's also fake, so, hey =p
  • HungryfreakHungryfreak Headliner
    edited March 2009
    Subgenres are a great way to discover specific types of music. If you like a type of sound, you can easily fid bands along the same line. If you like multiple types of sounds, you can look for which bands combine them.

    People argue about genre classification to fit things together better for other people. At least, I think that was the original reason. It certainly is the logical one. People who fight over them for no reason, though, are no more prone to subgenre arguments as they are to, say, 'what makes a good snowglobe' arguments.
  • warthogdbwarthogdb Opening Act
    edited March 2009
    Hungryfreak;2031854 said:
    Subgenres are a great way to discover specific types of music. If you like a type of sound, you can easily fid bands along the same line. If you like multiple types of sounds, you can look for which bands combine them.

    People argue about genre classification to fit things together better for other people. At least, I think that was the original reason. It certainly is the logical one. People who fight over them for no reason, though, are no more prone to subgenre arguments as they are to, say, 'what makes a good snowglobe' arguments.
    What makes a good snowglobe, well the size and distribution of the flakes is critical. Also, glass is a necessity, never own a plastic snowglobe like all those newbie punks out there...

    I guess there is a need for the subgenre but I still think there is an over-genre-fication created by scenesters and journalists trying to justify their cool. When a band decides to write songs for the purpose of fitting in to a specific genre after it becomes vogue is when the subgenre idea is bad. I remember in the 90s when all those bands tried to cash in on grunge.

    It almost seems that by the time there are a few similar bands discovered who tour together and support each other to the point that there is a new scene or genre that this new genre has already run its course. My point in the original post was that you should translate your influences your way without regard to trend and not to try to blend in with some exclusive club.
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