What exactly makes Metalcore not "Metal"?

Ragin_CaucasionRagin_Caucasion Road Warrior
edited March 2009 in History of Rock
Whenever I see discussions on bands like Avenged Sevenfold or Killswitch Engage, someone always says that they and other Metalcore bands are not actually Metal. I've seen the reasoning to be that Metalcore and other -core bands are more influenced by Punk, but I don't get why that would suddenly negate their status as Metal. After all, Thrash Metal primarily uses sped up Punk beats, but that genre is still considered Metal. Can anyone explain to me why people say this?

Comments

  • WhiffleBallTonyWhiffleBallTony Headliner
    edited March 2009
    I feel like metalcore is more closely related to melodic death metal thank hardcore punk, to be honest.
  • JohnTheDrummerJohnTheDrummer Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    Its mainly the elitist "holes" who have nothing better to do than bag on bands they don't like due to fame.

    Metalcore usually has breakdowns in it.

    As for not classifying it as metal... I always have a good laugh at that since its called METALcore... it has METAL in the title for crying out loud. I do not like that genre... but its still metal... and I am sick of all these subgenres...
  • Rockbandfan23467Rockbandfan23467 Headliner
    edited March 2009
    I remeber that Metal eliteist Motley from the old GH Boards said there were 3 main types of "False Metal"
    1. Hair/Glam/Pop Metal
    2. Nu-Metal
    3. Metalcore

    He claimed that while most 1 and 2 bands don't concider themselves Metal, Metalcore bands do.

    Personally, all three are Metal.
  • Ragin_CaucasionRagin_Caucasion Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    All right, glad to hear it's all just elitism talking. I was getting really curious about this, what with all the internet fights (read: pointless crying) about stuff like this.
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited March 2009
    They are technically metal bands. You just have to watch out for elitism and pretentiousness. Many consider them unpure for hybriding with hardcore punk but honestly its not the first time its happened. (Thrash, Grindcore, etc...)
  • Alright_ComputerAlright_Computer Butt Neck
    edited March 2009
    I consider them metal. I don't like most metalcore bands, but I still consider them metal.
  • Nuff_SaidNuff_Said Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    of course metalcore is metal. It has metal in the name, DUH!!!

    seriously though, it's just the true metal elitists who look down on modern mall metalcore stuff. They're also the ones who aren't willing to delve too deep into the roots of metalcore.

    I don't really really like metalcore, but i don't think it's not metal. All That Remains is certainly metal, and put on a pretty fun live show to boot.
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited March 2009
    One problem with metalcore is its as loose as numetal. You have bands in the 90s that were pure hardcore punk meets heavy metal. Bands that are typically considered metalcore today are quite different and range from Trivum, Atreyu, Shadows Fall, to Hatebreed. They all have different combinations and stylistic fusions of various forms of punk and metal. Melodic death metal, thrash metal, and groove seem to be common influences to varying degrees.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited March 2009
    i kinda wish metalcore wasn't metal.

    old metalcore bands like integrity, catharsis, starkweather, and so forth were incredible, but were basically hardcore punk bands with a hard-on for slayer and maiden.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    afterstasis;2105792 said:
    i kinda wish metalcore wasn't metal.

    old metalcore bands like integrity, catharsis, starkweather, and so forth were incredible, but were basically hardcore punk bands with a hard-on for slayer and maiden.
    I sorta wish new metalcore bands would all float away on the sea of mundanity that they've created. I mean, it is a viable genre, as you've stated here, but what is good is lost in the chaff at the minute.
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited March 2009
    Lolicat;2105832 said:
    I sorta wish new metalcore bands would all float away on the sea of mundanity that they've created. I mean, it is a viable genre, as you've stated here, but what is good is lost in the chaff at the minute.
    I have argued in these forums in the past that 90s metalcore and todays metalcore should probably be different genres, as they sound completely different.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2105869 said:
    I have argued in these forums in the past that 90s metalcore and todays metalcore should probably be different genres, as they sound completely different.
    A lot of todays popular bands (for teenagers) just sound like washed-out versions of their respective genres to me.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited March 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2105869 said:
    I have argued in these forums in the past that 90s metalcore and todays metalcore should probably be different genres, as they sound completely different.
    i'm down with this...

    i'm surprised there isn't a "real metalcore" genre-tag on last.fm, similar to the "real emo" and "real screamo" tags.

    then again, i see that some moron has tagged starkweather as "deathcore" and "progressive metal". :rolleyes:
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    afterstasis;2105914 said:
    i'm down with this...

    i'm surprised there isn't a "real metalcore" genre-tag on last.fm, similar to the "real emo" and "real screamo" tags.

    then again, i see that some moron has tagged starkweather as "deathcore" and "progressive metal". :rolleyes:
    Cat Power is tagged with 'pretty', 'beautiful' and 'sexy'. Now, all of these may be true, but does it really impact on the music?
  • Onslaught_feiOnslaught_fei Headliner
    edited March 2009
    Lolicat;2105908 said:
    A lot of todays popular bands (for teenagers) just sound like washed-out versions of their respective genres to me.
    Well, its not even that. I think bands like Shadows Fall, All That Remains, etc... have more in common with melodic death metal and usually the punk influence is in the vocalist alone and even thats debatable, as Phil Anselmo and Tom Araya kinda broke the ground that shouting like a madman is fine in metal.
  • LolicatLolicat Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    Onslaught_fei;2105935 said:
    Well, its not even that. I think bands like Shadows Fall, All That Remains, etc... have more in common with melodic death metal and usually the punk influence is in the vocalist alone and even thats debatable, as Phil Anselmo and Tom Araya kinda broke the ground that shouting like a madman is fine in metal.
    True, since you've now mentioned modern metalcore I have heard, I can agree with this. I've gotta admit that I just lost interest in the copy-cat artists that started appearing all over America about three years ago. I gave Shadows Fall, etc a try, but after that I was deluged and shut down that part of my brain.
  • Soror_YZBLSoror_YZBL Road Warrior
    edited March 2009
    Ragin_Caucasion;2104822 said:
    Whenever I see discussions on bands like Avenged Sevenfold or Killswitch Engage, someone always says that they and other Metalcore bands are not actually Metal. I've seen the reasoning to be that Metalcore and other -core bands are more influenced by Punk, but I don't get why that would suddenly negate their status as Metal. After all, Thrash Metal primarily uses sped up Punk beats, but that genre is still considered Metal. Can anyone explain to me why people say this?
    Because they're stupid.
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