Covers on RBN

kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
edited July 2009 in The Rock Band Network
Just to make things clear, what would be the difference in these 3 scenarios?

A) A Day To Remember charts their cover of Since U Been Gone and submits it to RBN.

B) Wavegroup has a cover of Since U Been Gone sitting around, they submit it to RBN.

C) A local band does a cover of Since U Been Gone and submits it to RBN

just wondering :)

Comments

  • snwns26snwns26 Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    I don't know much about this stuff but I believe A and B are cases where the covering artist got permission to cover it and use the song however in C the small band may not have done that for some reason.

    I'm interested in knowing if my band covered "Everytime we touch" as a metal song with no vox if we would be able to record it and put it up there without any trouble.
  • ShadowChaosControlShadowChaosControl Rising Star
    edited July 2009
    i wonder if an underground/indie band could, my band plays mostly covers, and i at least want something up there, i'm a horrible songwriter
  • fatalvendettafatalvendetta Rising Star
    edited July 2009
    You have to own the rights to the masters. It says that in the press release and/or the site.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited July 2009
    fatalvendetta;2737224 said:
    You have to own the rights to the masters. It says that in the press release and/or the site.
    right, but all of those bands would own master recordings of their covers
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited July 2009
    kingtonyx;2737325 said:
    right, but all of those bands would own master recordings of their covers
    I think the question at that point is do they own the rights to produce those masters in the first place? It'll be easy to catch the covers of popular songs, but I think it'll be hard to catch garage band A covering garage band B. Then again, who wants to lose a $100 license, as well as be sued if caught?
  • ExcessNeoExcessNeo Rising Star
    edited July 2009
    kingtonyx;2737325 said:
    right, but all of those bands would own master recordings of their covers
    Yes, but you still need permission from the owners of the original recordings to produce a for profit cover song. Otherwise Wavegroup could cover literally every song that is inaccessible as it's original version so we would have the "huge bands" everyone cares so much about.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited July 2009
    Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited July 2009
    Nothing happens in OP's scenario, because no one wants to buy Since U Been Gone.
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited July 2009
    HMXMister_Game;2737369 said:
    Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights.
    Yay. I'd be sad to see covers everywhere. Thank you all for that decision. And, hey a new HMXer. :)
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited July 2009
    HMXMister_Game;2737369 said:
    Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights.

    This makes sense, good call.

    A Day To Remember's version of that song was a single with a video and all of that, that's why I thought maybe it would be handled differently than a local band covering it.
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited July 2009
    This is all academic since RBN won’t have covers but just to clarify for some any band can cover any song regardless of the original artist consent. As bizarre as it sounds the only claim the OA has would be to what percentage of the profit they receive… however they can’t actually stop someone from releasing their own version of a song. (The exception being the OA retains first release rights.)

    This was established in 1909 and you can thank the piano roll industry for it. (Can’t allow a monopoly on “camp town races”!)
  • LollipopChoobLollipopChoob Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    GNFfhqwhgads;2737371 said:
    Nothing happens in OP's scenario, because no one wants to buy Since U Been Gone.
    ding
  • SportzterSportzter Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    I would think that HMX will have to somehow know who the owner of the song is for new material too.
    HMXMister_Game;2737369 said:
    Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights.
    This all but stipulates that we will only get original works from artists and songwriters.
  • V4VendettaV4Vendetta Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    Awww damn. I want Wavegroup covers!
  • carmine15carmine15 Unsigned
    edited July 2009
    They said no cover songs in rbn they need complete ownership
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited July 2009
    GNFfhqwhgads;2737371 said:
    Nothing happens in OP's scenario, because no one wants to buy Since U Been Gone.
    pretty sure it'd be a huge seller
  • SportzterSportzter Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    What about parodies like Wierd Al?
  • edited July 2009
    Sportzter;2740494 said:
    What about parodies like Wierd Al?
    I believe parodies are under the same legal umbrella as cover songs.
  • VedicardiVedicardi Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    "Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights."

    That's too bad, though it makes sense.
  • VedicardiVedicardi Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    HMXEnosity;2745136 said:
    I believe parodies are under the same legal umbrella as cover songs.
    Parodies are completely untouchable legally so you don't need any sort of paperwork to put those in the game.

    Shouldn't rather.

    But maybe you guys will play it safe and just avoid them anyway
  • RetroMonsterRetroMonster Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    SonicRocker15X;2737120 said:
    For all three, they most likely need to have some legal confirmation that they were allowed to profit from the cover.
    Yeah I think they need to be legally made not illegally otherwise you'll get caught and fined. B!G T!ME
  • Sarge51Sarge51 Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    I think the covers will be a huge gray area.

    For one you have parodies, like Weird Al, as said. and you have signed bands that do covers, like Guns N Roses' "Sweet Child Of Mine".

    I think the main thing is you can't just turn on the recording device and play a Bon Jovi song with your voice and your instruments, then expect it to pass through the RBN without some kind of legal safety net.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann Stormtrooper
    edited July 2009
    Vedicardi;2746425 said:
    Parodies are completely untouchable legally so you don't need any sort of paperwork to put those in the game.

    Shouldn't rather.

    But maybe you guys will play it safe and just avoid them anyway
    If it's a parody like Weird Al does them, it would still be considered a cover, since the song is musically copied from the original, and the original artist is credited as songwriter. Al's label does pay royalties to the original songwriters for all his direct parodies, you know.

    If you parodied a song and wrote your own just-different-enough melody, then you'd be legally protected and not have to worry about it.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited July 2009
    Lawdog1521;2739558 said:
    This was established in 1909 and you can thank the piano roll industry for it. (Can’t allow a monopoly on “camp town races”!)
    Sweet, our cover of Camp Town Races is safe! :D
    LuigiHann;2746449 said:
    If it's a parody like Weird Al does them, it would still be considered a cover, since the song is musically copied from the original, and the original artist is credited as songwriter. Al's label does pay royalties to the original songwriters for all his direct parodies, you know.
    Actually, Weird Al never copies music. He always has it re-recorded, and just slightly different enough from the original to be usable without copyright worries. Usually that just involves transposing the key of the song up or down half a step or so.
  • Alvarado6411Alvarado6411 Dethbringer
    edited July 2009
    HMXMister_Game;2737369 said:
    Covers will not be allowed to be submitted for RBN. We made this decision in order to simplify the process by which we can assure ourselves that the submitter of the song owns all the necessary rights.
    Can I submit a song that is not mine but I had permission from the record label?

    Also, how will I be able to show proof to HMX that I got the ok from the label/band.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited July 2009
    Alvarado6411;2746608 said:
    Can I submit a song that is not mine but I had permission from the record label?

    Also, how will I be able to show proof to HMX that I got the ok from the label/band.
    One would hope (and expect) there to be some sort of written contract between you and the label/band giving you permission to use their copyrighted content. Send a copy to HMX, and there's your proof.
  • Alvarado6411Alvarado6411 Dethbringer
    edited July 2009
    davidshek;2746646 said:
    One would hope (and expect) there to be some sort of written contract between you and the label/band giving you permission to use their copyrighted content. Send a copy to HMX, and there's your proof.
    Now this is where I need more info. Would I be having to get a lawyer? I have been in contact with bands and I have offered to do all the RBN work for them.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited July 2009
    Alvarado6411;2746702 said:
    Now this is where I need more info. Would I be having to get a lawyer? I have been in contact with bands and I have offered to do all the RBN work for them.
    Unless you can write up the legal jargon yourself, yes, hiring the services of an entertainment contract lawyer would be your best option there.
  • edited July 2009
    Honestly not much of a difference regarding end result. All three would most likely me turned down from the program. Unless you have copious reams of paper declaring full rights to cover the song and sell it in all forms including our game it would violate not only out TOS but most likely IP law.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited July 2009
    hmxsean;2746923 said:
    Honestly not much of a difference regarding end result. All three would most likely me turned down from the program. Unless you have copious reams of paper declaring full rights to cover the song and sell it in all forms including our game it would violate not only out TOS but most likely IP law.
    makes sense :)

    I wondered if maybe because the ADTR version was a single with a video and altered slightly if it would be a different situation
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