Harmonix, please allow RBN cymbal charts!!!

foojfightersfoojfighters Unsigned
edited August 2009 in The Rock Band Network
Even if the current engine can not handle the extra notation for cymbals, I think it would be forward thinking to at least have place holders to allow charters to place cymbals ... which could later on be represented with the ho/po notation currently used for guitars.

And if this is possible, I think it would be highly probable that there would be those in the charting community that would rechart all your DLC/songs to date with proper cymbal usage ... quite likely even for free. With the peer review that you are proposing, I'm sure the quality would be quite high. No one wants to make a mistake in front of the other charters.

Heck, you might even add to your revenue stream ... I for one would pay a bit to rebuy an updated version with cymbal charts.

Thanks for consideration

Comments

  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, I was hoping that would have been a change they made with The Beatles... adding Cymbal charting... Alas, it looks like that is something they have no plans at all to do.
  • RetroMonsterRetroMonster Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    foojfighters;2751510 said:
    Even if the current engine can not handle the extra notation for cymbals!!!
    Thanks for consideration
    They can't... Actually. I dont really know what the hells going on anymore.
  • foojfightersfoojfighters Unsigned
    edited July 2009
    All I'm saying is that even if the current engine can not handle the new symbols for the cymbals :) , hopefully the data file format for the RBN charters can be made flexible enough to allow cymbal charting. Then later on in RB3, the engine could be adapted to handle the cymbals. Though I suppose it would be difficult to test currently :(
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited July 2009
    foojfighters;2751510 said:
    Even if the current engine can not handle the extra notation for cymbals
    So... even if it's impossible, let us do it?
  • JackBNimbleJackBNimble Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    I don't see why it would be impossible to add ho/po notes to drum charts.
  • princeofcupsprinceofcups Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    JackBNimble;2751753 said:
    I don't see why it would be impossible to add ho/po notes to drum charts.
    It's not. I'm convinced that cymbal charting was one of the features selected for RB2, but it got dropped for some reason during the development process. They didn't build the cymbal ports into the RB2 drums just for the hell of it.
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited July 2009
    JackBNimble;2751753 said:
    I don't see why it would be impossible to add ho/po notes to drum charts.
    I'm hesitant to acknowledge they exist for the drum charts. I mean it wouldn't be a stretch from what is available to them being there, but the note highways aren't the same with drums being larger notes due to the 4 lanes instead of 5. It's entirely possible that there are no HOPO notes available for drums to use, and if that's the case, it's impossible without changing content within the engine.
  • gmagnusgmagnus Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    skyttskytt;2751920 said:
    It's entirely possible that there are no HOPO notes available for drums to use, and if that's the case, it's impossible without changing content within the engine.
    Hmm... if only there was some way to add content to a game through downloads...
  • acidicthought8acidicthought8 Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    gmagnus;2751929 said:
    Hmm... if only there was some way to add content to a game through downloads...
    Which can't work on the Wii...
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited July 2009
    gmagnus;2751929 said:
    Hmm... if only there was some way to add content to a game through downloads...
    Well, duh. But if the content currently doesn't exist, there's nothing that can be worked with to add it to the charts.
  • princeofcupsprinceofcups Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    acidicthought8;2751950 said:
    Which can't work on the Wii...
    Which is why we need RB3 now, not next year.
  • barbasolbarbasol Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    foojfighters;2751510 said:
    Even if the current engine can not handle the extra notation for cymbals, I think it would be forward thinking to at least have place holders to allow charters to place cymbals ... .
    Agree. I love the cymbals, but cymbal charting is still big on my wish list even after 8 months or whatever of playing with them. And I'm still only a med/hard level drummer. Yes most of the time it's easy to tell but the times when you have to think or just can't hear I find it so frustrating.
  • TrogdonTrogdon Rising Star
    edited July 2009
    this made me think that they really need to show the charters which cymbal is which, because I could see different bands charting their stuff weird because they didn't know how charts usually are (like they use yellow as high hat even on fast 16th beats)
  • AestilionAestilion Unsigned
    edited July 2009
    Trogdon;2794535 said:
    this made me think that they really need to show the charters which cymbal is which, because I could see different bands charting their stuff weird because they didn't know how charts usually are (like they use yellow as high hat even on fast 16th beats)
    if your using cymbals then this is what you want
  • JShadowz666JShadowz666 Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    foojfighters;2751510 said:
    Even if the current engine can not handle the extra notation for cymbals, I think it would be forward thinking to at least have place holders to allow charters to place cymbals ... which could later on be represented with the ho/po notation currently used for guitars.

    And if this is possible, I think it would be highly probable that there would be those in the charting community that would rechart all your DLC/songs to date with proper cymbal usage ... quite likely even for free. With the peer review that you are proposing, I'm sure the quality would be quite high. No one wants to make a mistake in front of the other charters.

    Heck, you might even add to your revenue stream ... I for one would pay a bit to rebuy an updated version with cymbal charts.

    Thanks for consideration
    Thinking about yourself with this one. I would not pay for the songs again. Considering I have every song out there and have spent well over $1000 on them, I would not spend another $1000+ just to add some cymbal notation, when it's not necessary. You don't have to play the cymbal pads, and you could also strictly play the cymbal pads. There isn't a need for extra notes.
  • foojfightersfoojfighters Unsigned
    edited July 2009
    JShadowz666;2794580 said:
    Thinking about yourself with this one. I would not pay for the songs again. Considering I have every song out there and have spent well over $1000 on them, I would not spend another $1000+ just to add some cymbal notation, when it's not necessary. You don't have to play the cymbal pads, and you could also strictly play the cymbal pads. There isn't a need for extra notes.
    I didn't say everybody would want to ... I said I probably would, and I'm sure others would as well. Sure it isn't necessary, but there are those of us that want a more realistic drumming experience.

    Heck, I have a ton invested in DLC as well. What if the extra notation was a 50 cents or a buck IF you already had the song?

    Again, this would be totally OPTIONAL. If you mainly play guitar or you don't have or don't care about cymbals, the default should be NOT to display the OPTIONAL cymbal notation. The OPTIONAL cymbal notation should only be showed when the new OPTION is selected. The point is to get the cymbals notated with the new Rock Band Network now!
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited July 2009
    princeofcups;2751957 said:
    Which is why we need RB3 now, not next year.
    We don't need an RB3 just to get stars and cosmetic symbol support.
  • supersonic1414supersonic1414 Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    Really guys, you can figure out the cymbal hits by listening to the song...All this whining about wanting HMX to do it is pretty pointless....
  • soccer1296soccer1296 Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    they couldn't do that cuz RB1 stock doesn't have cymbal ports.
  • Dr._Frasier_CraneDr._Frasier_Crane Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    supersonic1414;2795200 said:
    Really guys, you can figure out the cymbal hits by listening to the song...All this whining about wanting HMX to do it is pretty pointless....
    Exactly. I've never played real drums, but I play expert in RB with cymbals, and it's pretty easy to tell when you should use the cymbals, even in songs I don't know all that well.
  • cjgcjg Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    Also, how many people even use cymbals? Is it worth all this for that small percentage?
  • OddbrotherOddbrother Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    cjg;2795687 said:
    Also, how many people even use cymbals?
    Real question is, how can they afford it?

    If this affects scores, then it wouldn't be fair. That's like saying we should chart double bass on Expert, yet not everybody plays with a second pedal.
  • DLDanteDLDante Unsigned
    edited July 2009
    I think a good compromise that I'd be happy with would be to leave the game functioning as it already does but use a different visual queue when it's a cymbal in the song as opposed to a tom. As has already been mentioned, you could use the Hammer-On graphic to say "this time the yellow note is the hi-hat cymbal, not the tom". But, ultimately, the game could work the same way; hit either yellow and you get the points. This would allow those without cymbals to keep playing without them and those with cymbals to know when is the proper time to use them.

    I think, at this point, where not everyone has cymbals and probably don't even care to have them, that'd be the best way to implement cymbal charting without effecting the current gameplay.
  • xRite AidexxRite Aidex Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    please not this again...LEARN THE SONG!!!! stop being lazy!
  • funkydunklemanfunkydunkleman Rising Star
    edited July 2009
    xRite Aidex;2797549 said:
    please not this again...LEARN THE SONG!!!! stop being lazy!
    This. I love my cymbals and always make sure I play the songs as authentically as possible, and even I'm against this.

    Who cares about it. A small percentage of people even own cymbals, and an even smaller percentage care about playing them authentically.
  • barbasolbarbasol Opening Act
    edited July 2009
    DLDante;2797538 said:
    I think a good compromise that I'd be happy with would be to leave the game functioning as it already does but use a different visual queue when it's a cymbal in the song as opposed to a tom. As has already been mentioned, you could use the Hammer-On graphic to say "this time the yellow note is the hi-hat cymbal, not the tom". But, ultimately, the game could work the same way; hit either yellow and you get the points. This would allow those without cymbals to keep playing without them and those with cymbals to know when is the proper time to use them.

    I think, at this point, where not everyone has cymbals and probably don't even care to have them, that'd be the best way to implement cymbal charting without effecting the current gameplay.
    Yes, I think most of us are talking about a purely visual display option. I don't think anyone is advocating changing the scoring or making them mandatory.
    xRite Aidex;2797549 said:
    please not this again...LEARN THE SONG!!!! stop being lazy!
    Lazy?! No offense to anyone, but I find the "learn the song" argument pretty ridiculous. There's like 700+ songs now. Not that I have that many, but I don't want to waste time listening to parts of a song over and over or searching online. I just want to sit down and play. I mean, you could take "learn the song" to the extreme and remove all charting altogether. :p

    This has all been debated before. I think it's safe to say that some people desire charting and others don't see a need.
    cjg;2795687 said:
    Also, how many people even use cymbals? Is it worth all this for that small percentage?
    That's really the only valid argument I can see for not adding the option to display cymbal notes differently. Only Madcatz and Harmonix know how many cymbal units have been sold. Only Harmonix knows how hard it would be to add charting.


    I do think it would be forward thinking to include it in RBN. You probably do specify it at least for the drum animations, so for all we know they already ARE doing this.
  • AKALinkAKALink Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    I don't think the midi charts have room for it, Each note and event is placed in one octave (so there are 11 trigers) 5 of which are notes, the other six are score duel paths (2), overdrive (1), solos (1), overdrive activation (1), and Big Rock endings (1).
  • princeofcupsprinceofcups Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    cjg;2795687 said:
    Also, how many people even use cymbals? Is it worth all this for that small percentage?
    Only a small percentage of drummers are willing to buy cymbals without the charting. Chart the cymbals, and the hardware will fly off the shelves.
  • xRite AidexxRite Aidex Road Warrior
    edited July 2009
    princeofcups;2797911 said:
    Only a small percentage of drummers are willing to buy cymbals without the charting. Chart the cymbals, and the hardware will fly off the shelves.
    Laziest country in the world....

    No seriously people, yes its a lazy thing, but think of it this way, you buy Rock band 3(if there is one) and you go into a mystery setlist you play ____ song and then the next is from RB2 with uncharted cymbals, everyone begins to cry out/panic saying "OMGGGG IDK HOW TO PLAY THIS!!!"

    Seriously if you want the full experience of a drummer, learn the song like the real artist did
  • MexMex Mex Type Thing
    edited July 2009
    Jaysus.

    Wanting cymbals charted does not equal laziness. I play with the cymbals on expert and yes I've learned when to use them and when not to. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be great to have them show up like HOPOS or something like that.

    By god you'd think the dude suggested we have BROKENCYDE in RB or something. Nothing wrong with the request, though I doubt it'll happen.
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