Big Rock Ending

raphael0729raphael0729 Unsigned
edited September 2009 in The Rock Band Network
Will charters have the ability to put Big Rock Endings at the end of songs that (should) have them at the end?

Comments

  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited September 2009
  • bigbob105bigbob105 Unsigned
    edited September 2009
    ugh. Big rock endings = lazy charters.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited September 2009
    bigbob105;3073222 said:
    ugh. Big rock endings = lazy charters.
    Possibly, but I know I'd rather play the BRE on drums for Let There Be Rock (live) than play the chart.
  • seinmanseinman Road Warrior
    edited September 2009
    bigbob105;3073222 said:
    ugh. Big rock endings = lazy charters.
    At least for Harmonix's DLC, the chart is still there underneath the BRE. I can only assume this would be the same for RBN tracks.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited September 2009
    bigbob105;3073222 said:
    ugh. Big rock endings = lazy charters.
    Actually, the notes during the BRE do get charted, you just don't play them. Example.

    So it's not that the charters are too lazy to chart the notes, it's more of a decision that they make as to whether it would be fun or make sense to have you play those parts or cover them with a BRE.

    So, you might say Big Rock Endings make the charts easier to FC, but it's not due to lazy charters. :)
  • nashphx13znashphx13z Super Star
    edited September 2009
    trg007;3073424 said:
    Actually, the notes during the BRE do get charted, you just don't play them. Example.

    So it's not that the charters are too lazy to chart the notes, it's more of a decision that they make as to whether it would be fun or make sense to have you play those parts or cover them with a BRE.

    So, you might say Big Rock Endings make the charts easier to FC, but it's not due to lazy charters. :)
    Whoa, never knew that before. Smart post, Ted!
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    BREs are only for when drum parts are so bat**** ridiculous that it would be enormously stupid to actually chart them. If the guitar or bass is freaking out, but drums are doing completely logical things, or illogical things at a reasonable speed, then they should not have a Big Rock Ending.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited September 2009
    MarsPhoenix;3073580 said:
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Your story, fortunately, is not the standard that HMX has laid down over the last 2 years. And it is this standard, not your story, that defines how authoring is done in RBN songs as well.
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    davidshek;3073733 said:
    Your story, fortunately, is not the standard that HMX has laid down over the last 2 years. And it is this standard, not your story, that defines how authoring is done in RBN songs as well.
    I don't mean to cause meaningless drama, but is it really necessary for you to always reply in a means that feels like it attempts to create it?

    And in any case, is Rock Band Network really going to attempt to shut people down with different charting styles than Harmonix? Harmonix ignores some notes in Highway Star with the upward runs and Thrasher with the downward stuff in Solo 2 by ignoring an addition strum (Highway Star should not be G-R-Y- -G-R-Y- - and such, it should be G-R-Y-Y-G-R-Y-Y-. Thrasher should be more like Y-R-G-G-Y-R-G-G- rather than Y-R-G- -Y-R-G- and so on). So do I have to under-chart every solo if it plays like Highway Star or Thrasher?

    People have different charting styles. If everything under what COULD be a Big Rock Ending is reasonable and playable, then I will not make it a Big Rock Ending. If it's too crazy, then I'll leave it as a BRE.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited September 2009
    MarsPhoenix;3074035 said:
    And in any case, is Rock Band Network really going to attempt to shut people down with different charting styles than Harmonix?
    I don't think anyone would vote your song down if you accurately charted every note played in the actual music, with the exception of double bass on drums.

    However, if you left in a crazy ending part instead of covering it with a BRE, I'm not sure how well that would go over with reviewers. It would really depend on the song, and you will certainly find that out from other users during the playtesting stage before you actually submit your song for peer review.

    I don't know anything about Highway Star or Thrasher, but I'm guessing there must be a logical reason for it. Do they really under chart songs for the sole purpose of making them easier? Aside from double bass, the only example I can think of is that drum roll in Wanted Dead or Alive.
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    Highway Star can easily be heard by slowing the part down to 50% speed. I don't recall which part it is exactly, but I'm sure people know what section I'm talking about and can find it.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited September 2009
    MarsPhoenix;3074199 said:
    Highway Star can easily be heard by slowing the part down to 50% speed. I don't recall which part it is exactly, but I'm sure people know what section I'm talking about and can find it.
    I think I know which part you're talking about because it's the part where I always fail. :o I still think there must be a logical explanation for it though. Maybe the other notes you're hearing were played by a second guitar player or were produced by an effect that the guitarist was using.
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    You already mentioned a drum roll Harmonix didn't chart in Wanted Dead or Alive. Perhaps they just decided not to chart it. A second guitar would not show up when you slow down in practice mode, and it's not an effect either. You can clearly hear the sound of another note, each time. Judging that they did not chart the same thing in Thrasher, it's just a standard of theirs.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited September 2009
    MarsPhoenix;3074215 said:
    You already mentioned a drum roll Harmonix didn't chart in Wanted Dead or Alive. Perhaps they just decided not to chart it.
    That roll in Wanted: Dead or Alive was not authored because it does not appear on the original drum track. Much like the 16th note hi-hats in That's What You Get, it was added later in post-production. It wasn't left out to make the song easier.

    I don't attempt to cause drama, Mars, I just state facts as they are. And the fact is, that Harmonix has clearly established over the last 2 years a certain way that songs should be authored. Yes, that even applies to whether a particularly ending should be covered by a BRE or not. The whole point of the peer review process is to make sure that RBN songs are held to that standard.

    Your statement of "That's my story and I'm sticking to it" seemed basically like your way of saying "NYA NYA NYA I'm not listening!" while sticking your fingers in your ears. If you try to author an ending that should obviously be a BRE, it's not going to pass review.
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    That still leaves the idea of under-charting some commonly under-charted guitar solos vague. Under that idea, there are certain solo patterns that I must make easier, or else I will not make it through peer review.

    As another example, my thoughts only apply to songs such as Leaving Here, which I do not believe needed to have a BRE (especially considering the length) while plenty of songs do deserve to have it charted, namely ones with tons of cymbals mashing or freaking out that really follows no pattern because it's the end of the song.

    I suppose it's a lot easier to hear whether the drums act like when you can clearly hear the masters, but there are a lot of cases where I would personally (and I am very not alone) rather play a more challenging area than mash buttons for a few seconds (such as Long Time).

    Also, in reality, the "That's My Story" line would more likely work against what I just said, seeing as the context of it was popularized as I recall by a Country song of that title in which the singer would attempt to cover up his lies with that line. So now you get to the point where you must ask whether it was a bold statement or a goofy extra line added for the sake of flavor.
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited September 2009
    You guys make me laugh.

    BRE are allowed in RBN. Question answered.

    Shall we stop trying to cover our tracks concerning the inflections of whatever was said? You all sound like dummasses. Leave the community to discern what should and shouldn't be a BRE once RBN is up, 'k?
  • MarsPhoenixMarsPhoenix Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    I offer my sincerest apologies. For real.
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited September 2009
    MarsPhoenix;3076703 said:
    I offer my sincerest apologies. For real.
    Nothing to apologize for. I'm not irritated, just thought you both would want to know. :cool:
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited September 2009
    DavyinaToga;3076696 said:
    Shall we stop trying to cover our tracks concerning the inflections of whatever was said? You all sound like dummasses. Leave the community to discern what should and shouldn't be a BRE once RBN is up, 'k?
    Thanks, thought police. Hey here's a tip: Some of us are in the closed beta for RBN, so for us, it's already "up". We ARE the community. :)
  • ElMartilloElMartillo Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    How when would we be able to get our hands on the authoring tools? I don't know much about RBN yet but I was thinking it would be nice to have some of the local bands I know charted into RB.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited September 2009
    ElMartillo;3077829 said:
    How when would we be able to get our hands on the authoring tools? I don't know much about RBN yet but I was thinking it would be nice to have some of the local bands I know charted into RB.
    When the open beta starts. There is no definite date, but they say the store is going to go live in November so it should be some time before that.

    There's nothing stopping you from getting in contact with those bands and letting them know about it, though. :)
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited September 2009
    I think the important thing here is that you will author your song, you will do your best to adhere to the docs' guidelines, and then the playtest and peer review system will let you know what needs to be changed. If you author a BRE and nobody likes it, you can remove it. If you don't author one and everybody says you need one, you can put one in there. There's no hard and fast rule about how crazy an ending needs to be, so it's going to be subjective no matter what, and arguing about it gets us nowhere :)
  • KeimatsuKeimatsu Unsigned
    edited September 2009
    How about this: say I have a song that I WANT a BRE in, but the end of the song isn't necessarily crazy enough to NEED a BRE. Could I still (request that say, Rhythm Authors) put in the BRE?
  • TheOzoneTheOzone Road Warrior
    edited September 2009
    Keimatsu;3100519 said:
    How about this: say I have a song that I WANT a BRE in, but the end of the song isn't necessarily crazy enough to NEED a BRE. Could I still (request that say, Rhythm Authors) put in the BRE?
    Technically, yes. But it'd seem kinda stupid and pointless if it's not at least KINDA crazy.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited September 2009
    Keimatsu;3100519 said:
    How about this: say I have a song that I WANT a BRE in, but the end of the song isn't necessarily crazy enough to NEED a BRE. Could I still (request that say, Rhythm Authors) put in the BRE?
    You could, but reviewers would not pass it if it sounds out of place. It all depends on the song. :)
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited September 2009
    Keimatsu;3100519 said:
    How about this: say I have a song that I WANT a BRE in, but the end of the song isn't necessarily crazy enough to NEED a BRE. Could I still (request that say, Rhythm Authors) put in the BRE?
    The RBN authoring docs are actually very specific about when you should use a BRE and when you should not.

    Trying to force one in where it doesn't belong would likely cause your song to fail peer review.
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