Buying Own Songs???

raphael0729raphael0729 Unsigned
edited October 2009 in The Rock Band Network
I read on a different thread that you have to BUY your OWN songs...that makes absolutely no sense. Isn't it the same as asking a band to buy their own album? The charter of the song should get the song for free...

But then again, I may be wrong...
Maybe it is free...

Comments

  • GamerZX101GamerZX101 Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    aren't you going to make enough money from the song to be able to buy it?
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Standard XNA gives you 50 free tokens per posted item. Stands to reason you would get the same here
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    SwordofWhedon;3111864 said:
    Standard XNA gives you 50 free tokens per posted item. Stands to reason you would get the same here
    No tokens for RBN stuff.
  • jaystonepkjaystonepk Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    I've heard interviews with many bands. When asked about purchasing their own albums every one has said they do. A lot of times they'll buy a 100 copies and give them away at concerts. I thinks comes from a superstition that it will help drive future CD sales.
  • lowfatevanlowfatevan Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    if you authored the song, can't you just play it in audition mode anytime you want?
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    lowfatevan;3113039 said:
    if you authored the song, can't you just play it in audition mode anytime you want?
    Sure you can. But what if you wanted to jump online and play it with some other people? Gotta buy it then.
  • seinmanseinman Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    Don't most bands have to buy their own merch? Even independent bands that I've worked with (I'm not in a band myself, but I do art/video work for a few local bands) have had to pay for their own copies of CDs/shirts/etc. This doesn't seem like a new concept.
  • ThunderCurlsThunderCurls Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    There is no reason why you shouldn't pay.
  • lowfatevanlowfatevan Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    ThunderCurls;3113117 said:
    There is no reason why you shouldn't pay.
    this. i wouldn't mind paying for songs i've authored.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    seinman;3113091 said:
    Don't most bands have to buy their own merch? Even independent bands that I've worked with (I'm not in a band myself, but I do art/video work for a few local bands) have had to pay for their own copies of CDs/shirts/etc. This doesn't seem like a new concept.
    Yep, especially independent bands. If there's no label buying your merch for you, you pay for it yourself and then recoup the expenses by selling them at shows, on the web, etc.
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    I don't like the idea of having to pay for my own songs. I mean, I'm going to be paying $100+ a year to even be able to submit songs. On top of that, I'm going to have to pay for every song I submit that I also want to play (more than likely all of them). So say I submit 20 songs. I'm going to have to spend another $20. And that's if I decide to charge $1 for each song. There's no way I'm going to sell enough (if any) of my songs to make the $20 up.

    It's kind of like the Indie games on Xbox Live. If I was involved in creating one of those games, selling it for $10, I would feel like I shouldn't have to pay for it. Does anyone know how Indie Games works? Do the creators get to download their own games for free? SwordofWhedon said something about them getting tokens, whatever that means.

    If you want to compare it to other things, well, you can't. A band may buy a acquire a bunch of their own CDs, but they would get them cheaper than what they would normally sell for. With the Rock Band Network, we're having to pay the same amount for our songs as anyone else would.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3117512 said:
    I don't like the idea of having to pay for my own songs. I mean, I'm going to be paying $100+ a year to even be able to submit songs. On top of that, I'm going to have to pay for every song I submit that I also want to play (more than likely all of them). So say I submit 20 songs. I'm going to have to spend another $20. And that's if I decide to charge $1 for each song. There's no way I'm going to sell enough (if any) of my songs to make the $20 up.
    Hmmm. Is there a polite way of saying, "Cry me a river"? It's one dollar. If you can pony up to actually get 20 songs submitted and available through RBN, but then have to balk at $20 to be able to play them, then you can go through the hassle of audition mode whenever you want to, it's that simple. If you're the average band submitting a handful of songs, then you're talking about the cost of a bite to eat at McDonald's to be able to access your songs.

    Further, there isn't any methodology available that could possibly link you in particular to the finished product that appears on RBN. The system can't recognize you as an individual and give you a free ride. Honestly, any indie bands who are looking at RBN as any form of revenue stream are likely to be disappointed; the cost of having a song charted and all that is not likely to be made back in any short order by whatever you get from the RBN. What RBN provides is exposure and a medium through which to deliver your music to people who would never have heard it before, people who were not going to bother with your myspace page or whatever obscure locale your music would otherwise be located in.

    If I had an ounce of the talent needed to play a musical instrument, then I would be all over this and I'd be cheering as I paid my $1 to download my song, now part of the catalogue of arguably the biggest music game phenomenon ever. I guess some people have always got to see the cloud in their silver lining.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3117512 said:
    I don't like the idea of having to pay for my own songs. I mean, I'm going to be paying $100+ a year to even be able to submit songs. On top of that, I'm going to have to pay for every song I submit that I also want to play (more than likely all of them). So say I submit 20 songs. I'm going to have to spend another $20. And that's if I decide to charge $1 for each song. There's no way I'm going to sell enough (if any) of my songs to make the $20 up.
    Wait, what? You don't think you're going to sell even 3 copies of each song you submit? If you put up a song for $1, you get $0.30 for each copy that sells on the RBN store. It will only take 3 (and a 3rd, but I'm rounding) purchased downloads by other people for you to make back the $1 it will cost you to download it yourself.

    If you don't think you're going to even get 3 people to purchase and download your songs, then why are you doing this?
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3117664 said:
    Wait, what? You don't think you're going to sell even 3 copies of each song you submit? If you put up a song for $1, you get $0.30 for each copy that sells on the RBN store. It will only take 3 (and a 3rd, but I'm rounding) purchased downloads by other people for you to make back the $1 it will cost you to download it yourself.

    If you don't think you're going to even get 3 people to purchase and download your songs, then why are you doing this?
    Hmm, now that you mention it, his post does say "(if any)" indicating that he believes there's a significant likelihood that 0 people will download the songs.
  • seinmanseinman Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3117512 said:
    If you want to compare it to other things, well, you can't. A band may buy a acquire a bunch of their own CDs, but they would get them cheaper than what they would normally sell for. With the Rock Band Network, we're having to pay the same amount for our songs as anyone else would.
    No, what I'm saying is that the bands I've worked with have, indeed, purchased their OWN CDs and merch at their selling price, not cost. Yes, the band could buy 1000 pressed CDs for $1500, or $1.50 each. But at shows they sold them for $10, so they made every member of the band pay $10 for every copy they wanted, too. Why? Because independent bands need the money to survive. Recording and touring aren't cheap. It's just the cost of not being on a label, and it's something bands have to live with. At least we're talking about $1 or $2 songs here. If you spent $100 on a developer account, can you really not afford to buy copies of the songs, too?
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited October 2009
    if 3 or less people download my songs i'm going to drive to boston and beat HMXHenry up.
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    Ultrace;3117573 said:
    Hmmm. Is there a polite way of saying, "Cry me a river"? It's one dollar. If you can pony up to actually get 20 songs submitted and available through RBN, but then have to balk at $20 to be able to play them, then you can go through the hassle of audition mode whenever you want to, it's that simple. If you're the average band submitting a handful of songs, then you're talking about the cost of a bite to eat at McDonald's to be able to access your songs.

    Further, there isn't any methodology available that could possibly link you in particular to the finished product that appears on RBN. The system can't recognize you as an individual and give you a free ride. Honestly, any indie bands who are looking at RBN as any form of revenue stream are likely to be disappointed; the cost of having a song charted and all that is not likely to be made back in any short order by whatever you get from the RBN. What RBN provides is exposure and a medium through which to deliver your music to people who would never have heard it before, people who were not going to bother with your myspace page or whatever obscure locale your music would otherwise be located in.

    If I had an ounce of the talent needed to play a musical instrument, then I would be all over this and I'd be cheering as I paid my $1 to download my song, now part of the catalogue of arguably the biggest music game phenomenon ever. I guess some people have always got to see the cloud in their silver lining.
    I'm pretty serious about making music. I love doing it, but I know I won't sell many songs, if any. I'd be surprised if someone I didn't know downloaded one of my songs. More than anything, I just want to be able to play my own songs by myself or with others in the same room.

    When you sign up for an XNA account, you link it to your Gamertag. At the very least, they could give me one code to use to download the song for myself.

    My point is that in addition to paying the $99 to get into the XNA and the $60 for Reaper, you also have to pay to download your own songs. I'm not complaining. I don't mind the $99 XNA fee and the $60 for Reaper. I just don't see why, like I said before, they couldn't provide us with one code for each song we submit to download it. If the Indie Games developers get 50, why can't we get 1?
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3119212 said:
    I'm pretty serious about making music. I love doing it, but I know I won't sell many songs, if any. I'd be surprised if someone I didn't know downloaded one of my songs. More than anything, I just want to be able to play my own songs by myself or with others in the same room.

    My point is that in addition to paying the $99 to get into the XNA and the $60 for Reaper, you also have to pay to download your own songs. I'm not complaining.
    If all you want to do is play your own songs by yourself or with others on your console, then you don't need to ever pay to download it. In fact, you don't even have to submit it for play testing or peer review.

    Create the note charts and use Magma to transfer them from your PC to your Xbox in Audition Mode.
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    The way I understood it, when you're in Audition Mode, you can only have one of your songs loaded at a time. And I'm sure it would take a few moments to get your song sent over the network to be playable in Audition Mode too. If you can only have one song in Audition Mode at one time, that's not a good solution. Say I have 10 songs and I want to play them back to back. I'd have to go to my computer and send the first song to my Xbox, play the song, back to my computer, repeat.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3119625 said:
    The way I understood it, when you're in Audition Mode, you can only have one of your songs loaded at a time. And I'm sure it would take a few moments to get your song sent over the network to be playable in Audition Mode too. If you can only have one song in Audition Mode at one time, that's not a good solution. Say I have 10 songs and I want to play them back to back. I'd have to go to my computer and send the first song to my Xbox, play the song, back to my computer, repeat.
    You understand it correctly. Do you have a laptop? You can have that sitting right next to you while you play and have the next song ready to queue up in Magma ;)
  • MexMex Mex Type Thing
    edited October 2009
    I guess the problem is that alot of people will have a third party doing the charts and submitting. So then how do you get your free song?

    Or maybe the OP shouldn't be charting the tracks themselves. You can get a third party to do it that won't charge you anything, they'll take a piece of the profits from the download. Then you DL your songs for 20 bucks (if you have that many) and you can play them all you want.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3119320 said:
    If all you want to do is play your own songs by yourself or with others on your console, then you don't need to ever pay to download it. In fact, you don't even have to submit it for play testing or peer review.

    Create the note charts and use Magma to transfer them from your PC to your Xbox in Audition Mode.
    I have to agree with this. I know that I said that indie groups shouldn't expect to see a lot of profit from the RBN, but if you really don't expect to sell songs outside of your circle of friends, I think you need to reconsider whether RBN is the right venue for you to achieve your goal.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    Mex;3119681 said:
    I guess the problem is that alot of people will have a third party doing the charts and submitting. So then how do you get your free song?
    Easy, get the 3rd party to email you the final .RBS file that Magma creates. That's similar to the way we're distributing songs during the closed beta, except those are forum attachments. But it's the same principle.
  • Lizard_KingLizard_King Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    well i was planning on paying for my own stuff anyway haha. gotta get those royalties up haha. its not really a money issue for me, its three dollars, to be preserved in music game fame. not a bad tradeoff:)
  • iruhlmaniruhlman Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    blueblur3000;3117512 said:
    I don't like the idea of having to pay for my own songs. I mean, I'm going to be paying $100+ a year to even be able to submit songs. On top of that, I'm going to have to pay for every song I submit that I also want to play (more than likely all of them). So say I submit 20 songs. I'm going to have to spend another $20. And that's if I decide to charge $1 for each song. There's no way I'm going to sell enough (if any) of my songs to make the $20 up.

    It's kind of like the Indie games on Xbox Live. If I was involved in creating one of those games, selling it for $10, I would feel like I shouldn't have to pay for it. Does anyone know how Indie Games works? Do the creators get to download their own games for free? SwordofWhedon said something about them getting tokens, whatever that means.

    ok i know just enough to be dangerous here, IMO it would be wise to sell your songs for 1 dollar. Your not HMX or Rush, and that's not me trying to be rude its just a simple fact. Those indie XNA games aren't Shadow Complex. For a visual reference regarding this exact issue, head to the marketplace and go to the indie games section and tell me what appears on the cover art of most of the indie games now (bottom right hand corner) BIG reason for this... I highly suggest you go visit the XNA developer forums and read the feedback many of them are posting in regards to the numbers some of them share with the community. Many marketed games @ 200-400 points (and spent months of time developing said game) and hardly anyone is buying them. Yet a simple file that turns your 360 into a fireplace (coded in a weekend) is selling like hotcakes @ 80 MS points (think of the itunes app store). it's a buck. what can you buy for a dollar these days? well you can buy a song on itunes and now you'll be able to buy songs in RBN. Its the same basic idea.
    You can put your songs up for 2 bucks (is anyone really gonna go after a song for 3 bucks when even HMX doesn't use this price structure?) but I think they'll be perceived much like a song missing instruments will be (skippable), take me for example. No offense but when I see songs for 2 bucks or just 1 or 2 charted instruments, I'm probably going to pass them by for a full 4 instrument track I can buy for a dollar. but thats just me

    Indie XNA games are allowed 50 tokens. They're meant for advertising purposes. You can give that token to whoever you want BUT they're meant for kotaku - Joystiq - gamestop - IGN - G4 - teamxbox - 360achievements.org. etc.... they play your game and hopefully say something nice about it for everyone to read in a review which in turn makes some go download your game.

    These songs are different from a full game in that respect so it's up to HMX - yourself or the charting company to promote your music. A question to ask is will a website like 360achievements.org post all the songs that are coming out on RBN like it does with the Tuesday releases? Probably not, they don't report XNA games mainly since they don't have achievements. This remains to be seen.

    1,000's of songs in RBN would = 10's of thousands of free tokens. That just doesn't add up to make sense when you look at it that way. Maybe if they said 5 tokens per song instead of 50? i dunno. Doesn't seem like this RBN goes thru the standard XNA process. The creators club is where the peer review happens, not on XNA's website so maybe thats why we won't get tokens.


    some other things you might not be aware of and would care to know, XNA pays out quarterly (a Microsoft standard with ALL it's developers) and there's a payout cap of a few hundred bucks i think, so you'll see nada in your linked bank account until your cap is reached. Please allow 15-45 days after the quarter ends for payment to show up. Most people are getting into this for the band exposure and the general love of the game, not to make a ton of money.

    a small write-up on XNA sales from some of the developers that shared DL info.
    http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/03/gamerbytes_analysis_xna_commun.html

    Granted the whole 80 MS point boom happened after this was written.

    also a "different" view of the XNA service, "not really positive"
    http://forums.indiegamer.com/showpost.php?p=191361&postcount=164

    sorry probably a little too much rambling on this reply. Hope nothing is inaccurate =)
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Mex;3119681 said:
    I guess the problem is that alot of people will have a third party doing the charts and submitting. So then how do you get your free song?

    Or maybe the OP shouldn't be charting the tracks themselves. You can get a third party to do it that won't charge you anything, they'll take a piece of the profits from the download. Then you DL your songs for 20 bucks (if you have that many) and you can play them all you want.
    No 3rd party authoring service is going to agree to author a song for a split of an estimated zero sales.

    I will be OK with buying my track if I can get it that far. I'm having to buy a horrible 360 after all. I still can't believe you Xbox people pay to play with other people over the internet??? What is that about???
  • iruhlmaniruhlman Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    ^^^

    why do roughly 13 million people pay 14 bucks a month to play WoW I wonder?

    If its such a bad console don't buy it my friend. Plenty of people could list reasons why Live (paid) is preferred over PSN (free) for online gaming.

    For example, right now I'm afraid to update to version 3.01 since many are reporting problems with the update.

    look here for many upset PS3 users.
    http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=ps3updates


    This is the second update from Sony to bring problems to the console.

    http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168527

    bottom line is all 3 of them have problems. not wise to bash any of them.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3126188 said:
    I still can't believe you Xbox people pay to play with other people over the internet??? What is that about???
    We pay to play so that our network has things like an architecture that can support XNA and the RBN... I think you answered your own question by purchasing the system. One of the reasons that the 360 has so many items available through Live is due to the funding received from the (nominal, IMO) cost of the service. By contrast, Sony charges nothing for PSN, so they receive... No direct income from its users, and I believe that's reflected in the quality and speed of the implementation of its features.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    I didn't buy it yet, but I'm sure I will. It just seems like a lot of money to pay to do hours and hours of work to hand over 70%.

    Yes I know if I don't like it, don't do it. But I don't have to love it. I don't really like paying Apple $100 every year to be able to write iphone apps either, but at least they only take 30% :)

    I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I'm not really a sony fanboi and shouldn't have brought that up anyway. I am thrilled that hmx has brought out RBN but it's a little overwhelming to have to buy all this M$ stuff plus multiple annual payments, etc. Don't hate me
  • iruhlmaniruhlman Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3128424 said:
    I didn't buy it yet, but I'm sure I will. It just seems like a lot of money to pay to do hours and hours of work to hand over 70%.

    Yes I know if I don't like it, don't do it. But I don't have to love it. I don't really like paying Apple $100 every year to be able to write iphone apps either, but at least they only take 30% :)

    I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I'm not really a sony fanboi and shouldn't have brought that up anyway. I am thrilled that hmx has brought out RBN but it's a little overwhelming to have to buy all this M$ stuff plus multiple annual payments, etc. Don't hate me
    You'll have to do alot better than that to hurt my feelings :P
    and it's not that your a fanboy, your just upset your "preferred" console doesn't have the ability to make something like the RBN happen. So now your forced to go buy an xbox and everything along with it. One can understand this frustration. When you take that frustration out on others around you here on this forum, is when you get responses like mine and from Ultrace, who IMO makes good points as to some reasoning why you probably don't have this network on your PS3 in the first place. Of course none of us know specifics but one can put things together and figure it out in a round about way. I mean how long has Home been in beta now?

    who knows you might end up enjoying your 360 more than you thought. I know when I first bought mine I didn't think I would ever abandon my huge PS2 game library.
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