Vocals, can't find note

SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
edited October 2009 in The Rock Band Network
A lot of my lead singer's notes are coming in in between MIDI notes on the chart in reaper. I have very good pitch and it's driving me a bit crazy. I've noticed when doing the songs, I've had to sing a bit flat when playing the game, should I just follow that rule here? Any tips?

Comments

  • BIGFISHBIGFISH Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    I am experiencing this issue as well. Unless there is something i am not aware of, it feels very limiting. I'm interested to hear anybody's tips and tricks for vocal authoring.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Is the *entire* song in fact off pitch? If you're pulling the masters from analog tape, this might be the case! :)

    If the singer is *consistently* a few cents flat or sharp, but is still in tune with the rest of the band, then you can slightly speed up or slow down all the tracks to repitch the song to the A440 standard. But mind, you'll have to do the same amount of correction to *all* the tracks, so that their timings remain the same! (Also, it will mess up any tempo maps you've already done: what a headache!)

    If it's just the singer that's off pitch, you might try just a *smidge* of auto-tune on it. Nothing like the robo-voices you hear on the radio today, though! ;) Judiciously used, it can get the performance back into tune without affecting its timing.

    - m
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, since I'm not the band, I'm not touching their masters beyond necessary processing to sound good in the game.

    It's just the singer, but if the fans hear the slightest change they'll plotz. Better off just making them sing flat methinks :)

    These are 48khz/24-bit masters recorded in the last year
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    SwordofWhedon;3138494 said:
    Yeah, since I'm not the band, I'm not touching their masters beyond necessary processing to sound good in the game.
    Ah, that's judicious if it's not your material. I sometimes forget that, since I'm just working with my own cronies and collaborators, at this point! ;)

    But the good news is that one of the last steps of the build process will compare the pitch detection of the guide vocal track with your authored MIDI data. If it finds there is a large enough discrepancy, it will tell the engine to score pitch a little more liberally than usual. Check the build output to confirm if this is being engaged.

    Hopefully this will allow everyone to sing a bit flat without being penalized too much in the scoring.

    - m
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Interesting. I am already making the vocals a little less complicated specifically to compensate fo the funkiness as well, so between the two hopefully it'll balance it out
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited October 2009
    SwordofWhedon;3138494 said:
    they'll plotz.
    Wow, you're Jewish?
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    I just like the word
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Please post a link to the song if you can, I'm intrigued to hear this new way of singing!
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    I don't know what you mean...it's not a new way of singing, the notes being sung are simply not on the chart provided
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    SwordofWhedon;3141788 said:
    I don't know what you mean...it's not a new way of singing, the notes being sung are simply not on the chart provided
    So out of the 12 possible notes to hit in any given octave, he/she can't hit a single one of them? If it's not a technical issue with the masters as was mentioned above, then you're dealing with a terrible singer.
  • BillyBlaze314BillyBlaze314 Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    You can adjust the midi synth in Reaper to match the singer. Click the FX button for the vocals midi track and select VSTi: ReaSynth (Cockos), there is a Tuning slider that gives you the ability to transpose the midi notes with the precision of 1/100th of a semitone. So just set that to -50 or 50, and you should be able to author and match the tone.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    trg007;3141834 said:
    So out of the 12 possible notes to hit in any given octave, he/she can't hit a single one of them? If it's not a technical issue with the masters as was mentioned above, then you're dealing with a terrible singer.
    Ya know, there are more than 12 possible notes in the musical scale. Western music only uses 12 notes, but much of Eastern music (Indian, Asian, etc.) uses a lot of tones that are in-between our traditional 12 notes.

    Try to think outside the Occidental box a little bit :)
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    You can adjust the midi synth in Reaper to match the singer. Click the FX button for the vocals midi track and select VSTi: ReaSynth (Cockos), there is a Tuning slider that gives you the ability to transpose the midi notes with the precision of 1/100th of a semitone. So just set that to -50 or 50, and you should be able to author and match the tone.
    I'll give that a whirl, and David is correct about the roots of my problem :)
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3142387 said:
    Ya know, there are more than 12 possible notes in the musical scale. Western music only uses 12 notes, but much of Eastern music (Indian, Asian, etc.) uses a lot of tones that are in-between our traditional 12 notes.

    Try to think outside the Occidental box a little bit :)
    The more you know!

    Now I'm really curious to hear this song you are trying to chart. :)
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3142387 said:
    Ya know, there are more than 12 possible notes in the musical scale. Western music only uses 12 notes, but much of Eastern music (Indian, Asian, etc.) uses a lot of tones that are in-between our traditional 12 notes.

    Try to think outside the Occidental box a little bit :)
    Yeah ok, but this is Rock band, not Rāgas Band! There aren't more than 12 notes in its musical scale that I know of.

    Since you hid the notion that your music might use a non-western scale from us in your first message, I hope you won't think me too close-minded. Should we start all responses with "what musical scale are you using?"

    But all that aside, I would say you are stuck. Rock Band uses 12 tones. I'd still like to hear what you are working with, or something with a similar scale if you don't want to share this actual song (if using the term "song" isn't too narrow minded :).
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3144008 said:
    Yeah ok, but this is Rock band, not Rāgas Band! There aren't more than 12 notes in its musical scale that I know of.
    That wasn't really the point. If you look at the post I was actually replying to, it was trg saying that we're dealing with a terrible singer here. And we're not. We're just dealing with a singer that's using a non-Western musical scale.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3144033 said:
    That wasn't really the point. If you look at the post I was actually replying to, it was trg saying that we're dealing with a terrible singer here. And we're not. We're just dealing with a singer that's using a non-Western musical scale.
    You're right, I mistook your reply as coming from the OP, sorry about that. I'd still like to hear this mystery sound.
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009

    Since you hid the notion that your music might use a non-western scale from us in your first message, I hope you won't think me too close-minded. Should we start all responses with "what musical scale are you using?"
    I didn't even consider that to be a possible issue until it was brought up and the lightbulb went on

    Sorry I can't share what I'm working on specifically, only that it is by an actual rock band not necessarily of western origin :)
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    OK cool, please be sure to resurrect the thread and point us to it when it hits review :)
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3144033 said:
    That wasn't really the point. If you look at the post I was actually replying to, it was trg saying that we're dealing with a terrible singer here. And we're not. We're just dealing with a singer that's using a non-Western musical scale.
    I'm still wondering how you figured that out though, since it wasn't mentioned by the OP at all. :)
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    trg007;3144138 said:
    I'm still wondering how you figured that out though, since it wasn't mentioned by the OP at all. :)
    It was a wild guess, to be perfectly honest. :)
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited October 2009
    You can detune the whole song, if (for example), the whole song was recorded out of tune. It involves some manual hacking of the .dta files, but it's possible. We use it sometimes when authoring a song from the 60s, before electronic tuners.

    But this doesn't really help you here, since it a) doesn't give you more than the diatonic scale and b) affects every track, not just vocals.
  • SwordofWhedonSwordofWhedon Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    So Mr. Game, is your professional advise that I simply make it as close as I can, taking this into account and engage the leniency feature?

    You guys are a lot more experienced at this than I am, and honestly I'd rather not make this more complicated than it already is :)
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited October 2009
    That's probably your best shot. It's probably worthwhile to give it a playtest to see what people think.
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3142387 said:
    Ya know, there are more than 12 possible notes in the musical scale. Western music only uses 12 notes, but much of Eastern music (Indian, Asian, etc.) uses a lot of tones that are in-between our traditional 12 notes.

    Try to think outside the Occidental box a little bit :)
    Only 12 if you're assuming even temperament. Though I admit, I doubt many (if any) rock vocalists could accurately sing microtonal steps. :cool:
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