Yes, the learning curve... help!

TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
edited October 2009 in The Rock Band Network
I'm pretty savvy when it comes to music programs. At least I'd like to think so. But I've spent hours now trying to understand all these little errors that happen when I try to package the midi file in Magma, but to no avail.

Now, I've tried looking online for help and, for some reason, it seems just as hard as trying to figure out the errors. Is there any possible way for us to help each other through this learning curve, possibly even in a one-on-one basis if necessary?

If anyone knows what to do about these midi errors, please help me!

Comments

  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    It would help if you posted what the error messages say. :)
  • TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    drum mix 'drums2' supports exactly 5 (total) drum channels; this song's configuration has 6 (total) drum channels

    and also with the kick channels but saying that it supports 1 and that i have 2... but i didn't mess with any text event markers. they're exactly the same as when you load up the RBN template.
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    See the Drum Mix Events section towards the bottom of this page: http://creators.rockband.com/spec/Drum_Authoring

    The value you need depends on what your drum tracks are like. For example, I have separate bass, snare, and kit tracks, and they're all in stereo. So I use drums3.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3139856 said:
    but i didn't mess with any text event markers. they're exactly the same as when you load up the RBN template.
    "That is why you fail." - Yoda

    Just kidding, but yeah, you need to use the proper drum mix event for the type of stems you're using.
  • TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    thanks man, that really helped a lot!!

    the other problem i've run into is it telling me is: Invalid MIDI note pitch 76

    and basically states every note that i've written on that lane.... what does that mean?
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    What's the full error? Does it say it's in the drum track?

    I didn't really start tinkering with Reaper and Magma until yesterday morning, but I've seen just about every error possible. And I'm getting pretty good at figuring out what the root of errors are, even when the error you get is a little vague.
  • TheOzoneTheOzone Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3139856 said:
    drum mix 'drums2' supports exactly 5 (total) drum channels; this song's configuration has 6 (total) drum channels

    and also with the kick channels but saying that it supports 1 and that i have 2... but i didn't mess with any text event markers. they're exactly the same as when you load up the RBN template.
    The problem is your stems have to be as follows:

    Kit: Stereo (2 channels)
    Snare: Stereo (2 channels)
    Kick: Mono (1 channel)

    That'll add up to the 5 you need. Having the kick in stereo gives you 6 channels, which is too many.
  • TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    the invalid MIDI note pitch 76 appears in the bass lane. basically, however many notes i put into the base lane is how many errors (the same one, mind you) in the error box.

    ...how i hate that box...
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3139954 said:
    the invalid MIDI note pitch 76 appears in the bass lane. basically, however many notes i put into the base lane is how many errors (the same one, mind you) in the error box.

    ...how i hate that box...
    So it's in the PART BASS midi? Did you put any Orange notes on Medium? That's what I think the problem is here.
  • SHPhr34kSHPhr34k Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Magma is extremely strict in making sure that you are not only following authoring standards, but to ensure that you won't do anything that will cause the 360 to crash. We need to put a FAQ together sometime to explain each error and what you have done wrong and how to fix it. Eventually you'll just know what they all mean though, so keep at it, keep asking questions, we'll keep answering them :)
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    trg007;3140075 said:
    So it's in the PART BASS midi? Did you put any Orange notes on Medium? That's what I think the problem is here.
    This is exactly the problem. You need to remove any Orange note markers from your medium bass track (specifically, midi note row 76)
  • TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    Yes, it was in fact, the exact problem... i must have let it slip past me.

    Can anyone tell me how programming Hammer On's works? why is there a segment for HOPO on and another for HOPO off? what does the PO stand for?
  • RobbySuaveRobbySuave Rising Star
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3148220 said:
    Yes, it was in fact, the exact problem... i must have let it slip past me.

    Can anyone tell me how programming Hammer On's works? why is there a segment for HOPO on and another for HOPO off? what does the PO stand for?
    PO stands for pull-off, which is sort of the opposite of a hammer-on. I believe the game will automatically assign HOs, but if you want to disable them for specific notes or a range of notes, you would turn them off, and then back on when you wanted them back on.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3148220 said:
    Yes, it was in fact, the exact problem... i must have let it slip past me.

    Can anyone tell me how programming Hammer On's works? why is there a segment for HOPO on and another for HOPO off? what does the PO stand for?
    I believe that whenever you have two notes with a 16th note gap (or less) between them, the second note will be a HOPO if it's on a different fret than the one before it. You would use Force HOPO On if you have two notes that are further apart than that, and you want to make the second note a HOPO. You'd use Force HOPO Off if you have notes that are close together that you want to be strummed instead of HOPOs.

    Keep in mind that these don't always display in the preview window the way they will in-game. Always test in-game to make sure your HOPOs are working the way you want them to.
    blueblur3000;3148231 said:
    I believe the game will automatically assign HOs, but if you want to disable them for specific notes or a range of notes, you would turn them off, and then back on when you wanted them back on.
    You don't have to manually turn them "back on"; after the end of your Force HOPO On (or Off) marker, they return to the normal (auto-generated) functionality. Only the notes under the marker are affected.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Why do they use the term PO at all? Hammer-on is the correct term for hitting or hammering the string onto the fret to make sound without strumming (and its analogy in the game is very sensical).

    But there is no part of the game that I can see that has anything at all to do with a pulloff (which is a technique of pulling up the side of the string with the finger which up to that point had been holding it down on the fret).

    Anyone know why? Am I not seeing something?
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3148262 said:
    Why do they use the term PO at all? Hammer-on is the correct term for hitting or hammering the string onto the fret to make sound without strumming (and its analogy in the game is very sensical).

    But there is no part of the game that I can see that has anything at all to do with a pulloff (which is a technique of pulling up the side of the string with the finger which up to that point had been holding it down on the fret).

    Anyone know why? Am I not seeing something?
    You CAN do a pull-off like you would on a real guitar, by holding down two fret buttons and releasing the higher fret to trigger the lower one...the game just doesn't require you to do that. :)
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3148262 said:
    But there is no part of the game that I can see that has anything at all to do with a pulloff (which is a technique of pulling up the side of the string with the finger which up to that point had been holding it down on the fret).

    Anyone know why? Am I not seeing something?
    You're missing it because your definition of a pull-off is wrong :p A pull off is when you play a high note, and then release your fretting finger from the string allowing a lower note to ring out without strumming, be it another fretted note or the open string itself.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3148262 said:
    But there is no part of the game that I can see that has anything at all to do with a pulloff (which is a technique of pulling up the side of the string with the finger which up to that point had been holding it down on the fret).
    That's a bend, not a pull-off.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3148621 said:
    That's a bend, not a pull-off.
    I will admit that my description of a pulloff was poor, it's been a long time since I played one and frankly I forgot. But I still don't see one in the game :)

    I guess it's hmx's combining of the two terms into one that has me baffled.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3148798 said:
    I will admit that my description of a pulloff was poor, it's been a long time since I played one and frankly I forgot. But I still don't see one in the game :)

    I guess it's hmx's combining of the two terms into one that has me baffled.
    The two terms in relation to Rock Band are identical, simply mirror images of each other, which is pretty much exactly what it is on a real guitar as well.

    Hammer-on: Pressing a higher fret while a lower fret is already being held, changing the tone from the lower note to the higher note. Same in RB and on a real guitar.

    Pull-off: Plucking your finger off a higher fret while a lower fret is being held, changing the tone from the higher note to the lower note. Same in RB and on a real guitar. The only major difference here is that in RB, you don't HAVE to hold down the lower note before releasing the higher one, you can just tap from one to the other.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Thanks, you write good careful descriptions of stuff. You are very precise, too, I have noticed, and I kind of hope you don't review any of my songs ;)

    But throw me a bone and admit that there is no pulloff in the game, and that the combination of the two techniques into a single term is weird so I don't feel crazy :)
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3148979 said:
    Thanks, you write good careful descriptions of stuff. You are very precise, too, I have noticed, and I kind of hope you don't review any of my songs ;)

    But throw me a bone and admit that there is no pulloff in the game, and that the combination of the two techniques into a single term is weird so I don't feel crazy :)
    To the first part, I would think you'd want someone with that much attention to detail reviewing your songs to make them of the highest quality :p

    For the latter part, I really don't think you get it. There ARE pulloffs in Rock Band. There have been there since the beginning. Nobody mentioned combining two techniques into one anywhere except for you, and I'm getting really confused as to what you think a pulloff is.

    Example

    The blue and yellow notes in this image are pulloffs, plain and simple.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    OK, thanks Andrew and David. I will just be known as the only guy who has never seen a pulloff in the game Rock Band. I don't want to be a drama guy! For me, for it to be a pulloff, you'd have to release the button in order to hit the gem, and I do not see that in my gameplay. I see hammers, but no pulloffs. Sorry for the trouble.

    The place I see them combined, btw, is when everyone and the docs call them hopos, as in the section in Authoring called "Hopos, Hopo On/Off"
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3150078 said:
    OK, thanks Andrew and David. I will just be known as the only guy who has never seen a pulloff in the game Rock Band. I don't want to be a drama guy! For me, for it to be a pulloff, you'd have to release the button in order to hit the gem, and I do not see that in my gameplay. I see hammers, but no pulloffs. Sorry for the trouble.

    The place I see them combined, btw, is when everyone and the docs call them hopos, as in the section in Authoring called "Hopos, Hopo On/Off"
    Go try out the in-game tutorials; I think the one that covers HOPOs is called the "Freakin' Hard Tutorial". That will explain how to do a pull-off in RB.

    Even though not all of the PO notes in RB are actually PO's on a real guitar, that doesn't mean none of them are.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Thanks trg! I went and did just that. He took me step by step through what a hammer on is, which I knew, then he said "A pulloff is exactly the same, but in reverse", which works great in real life guitar, but I still didn't see an example of what a pulloff is in Rock Band. Anyone know of a pulloff in one of the songs by chance?
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    ethicalpaul;3150382 said:
    Thanks trg! I went and did just that. He took me step by step through what a hammer on is, which I knew, then he said "A pulloff is exactly the same, but in reverse", which works great in real life guitar, but I still didn't see an example of what a pulloff is in Rock Band. Anyone know of a pulloff in one of the songs by chance?
    If you are specifically looking for something like a GR chord pulling off to a G note, there might be a few examples, but this isn't how Rock Band uses pulloffs. They tried to make you do that in GH1 for a simple R to G pulloff, and it was near impossible to hit any descending runs. For this reason, the game engine allows you to 'reverse hammeron' the notes that are meant to be pulloffs. So yes, if you want to be incredulously technical, there are next to no pulloffs in the game. BUT, that's not the point here, as it's not supposed to be 'exactly like real guitar.' It is supposed to emulate it while being a fun experience of the music.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything about this (and apologies if it comes off that way), but you're thinking too hard. By your definition of no pulloffs in the game, I could argue that there are no chords either, as all five frets of the guitar controllers are on the same 'string,' and you would only be playing the higher note, not a chord; just like how you aren't playing a 'proper pulloff,' but a reverse hammeron.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    No, on the contrary, you are not coming off jerklike in the least, but I fear that I might have :(

    I did not mean to be pedantic or perfectionistic, and I by no means see it as a weakness of the game. I wasn't trying to compare to GH--I've played it I think one time and didn't care for it :)

    I was just honestly perplexed as to the use of the term "pulloff" when to me, they all seem like hammer ons (that just happen to go down the neck rather than up) and I wanted to make sure I wasn't seeing things differently than they actually were (especially considering that I'm learning to chart and I didn't want to have the wrong idea about them).

    It sure didn't help the way I botched up my description of a pulloff, but everyone kept saying "yeah there are pulloffs" and I just couldn't tell what they meant.

    Thanks again, I think I understand the way it is now. Thanks for sticking with me, I'll keep a low profile for awhile I think :)
  • TheadoreisdedTheadoreisded Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    I have to say, after letting this thread run for a while with all of my questions, i'm very pleasantly surprised to see the amount in willingness to help others. kudos to everyone on this forum for truly making this a community.

    having said that, i have a few questions about programming vocals. :P

    would it be a good idea to start a phrase a measure before the singing starts, or is it alright to start at the down beat? when placing lyrics with multiple syllables, does the dash come at the end of the first one, or the beginning of the following one? lastly, for the life of me, i can't recall whether or not capitalization or punctuation is used. (at least as if in a hand written letter.)

    thoughts? suggestions?
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Hey no worries. My inquisitive nature just wanted to find the bottom of the problem; you did nothing wrong but be confused, which is expected with all this RBN stuff :)

    As for my comment about GH1, you do know that Harmonix made GH1 and GH2, right? That's why I used it as an example :p Anyway, best of luck with the authoring and don't be afraid to post questions; it's just tougher to explain things through text than in person.
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    Theadoreisded;3150750 said:
    would it be a good idea to start a phrase a measure before the singing starts, or is it alright to start at the down beat? when placing lyrics with multiple syllables, does the dash come at the end of the first one, or the beginning of the following one? lastly, for the life of me, i can't recall whether or not capitalization or punctuation is used. (at least as if in a hand written letter.)

    thoughts? suggestions?
    (Sorry for double post!)

    Just start and end your phrase markers close to the beginning/end of your note tubes for that phrase. I know the spacing between phrases determines the activation windows for Vocal OD, but I need to double check whether the length of the phrase marker itself affects this, or if it's just when and where the note tubes themselves are placed.

    The dash comes at the end of the first syllable. Capitalize the first word of every phrase no matter what, and then follow standard English rules for capitalization, I do believe the docs state a bit more about this. Punctuation is rarely used, and again refer to the docs for guidelines.

    Vocal Authoring Doc

    Good luck :)
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