Band Permission - What Proof Is Needed?

BrewTLGBrewTLG Unsigned
edited November 2009 in The Rock Band Network
What is needed to show Harmonix that you have a band's permission to track out and upload their music? Is there a form that the manager/label fills out?

Comments

  • TheOzoneTheOzone Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    I think having the actual master recordings would be proof enough.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited October 2009
    TheOzone;3200577 said:
    I think having the actual master recordings would be proof enough.
    I think you're going to want something more solid than that. :) All the legitimate authors sign contracts with the artists they work with, which covers compensation, rights to use masters, etc.
  • TheOzoneTheOzone Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    trg007;3200655 said:
    I think you're going to want something more solid than that. :) All the legitimate authors sign contracts with the artists they work with, which covers compensation, rights to use masters, etc.
    Well obviously. I have contracts with my clients that I'm authoring for. I mean that having the masters is evidence enough for Harmonix that you went and got the rights and you're not going to have show written proof or anything. Master tracks are not readily available like mp3s are.
  • CCDaDonCCDaDon Headliner
    edited October 2009
    TheOzone;3200842 said:
    Well obviously. I have contracts with my clients that I'm authoring for. I mean that having the masters is evidence enough for Harmonix that you went and got the rights and you're not going to have show written proof or anything. Master tracks are not readily available like mp3s are.
    That's not really all that true for some songs. There are alot of songs where masters are out there for anyone.
  • MagnetMagnet Moderator
    edited October 2009
    TheOzone;3200842 said:
    I mean that having the masters is evidence enough for Harmonix that you went and got the rights and you're not going to have show written proof or anything. Master tracks are not readily available like mp3s are.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is totally not true.
  • TheOzoneTheOzone Road Warrior
    edited October 2009
    I probably am. Maybe someone who's in the beta or a HMX person can give the correct answer, I was just guessing.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited October 2009
    TheOzone;3200842 said:
    Well obviously. I have contracts with my clients that I'm authoring for. I mean that having the masters is evidence enough for Harmonix that you went and got the rights and you're not going to have show written proof or anything. Master tracks are not readily available like mp3s are.
    Magnet is right, that's not true at all. I have the master tracks for The Doobie Brothers "Long Train Running", but I don't have the rights to publish that song. Same with the hundreds of other sets of master tracks I have.

    If you're serious about authoring a song (or songs) for a band and have questions about obtaining the proper rights, talk to an entertainment contracts lawyer.
  • CCDaDonCCDaDon Headliner
    edited October 2009
    davidshek;3201825 said:
    Magnet is right, that's not true at all. I have the master tracks for The Doobie Brothers "Long Train Running", but I don't have the rights to publish that song. Same with the hundreds of other sets of master tracks I have.

    If you're serious about authoring a song (or songs) for a band and have questions about obtaining the proper rights, talk to an entertainment contracts lawyer.
    Why... would you have the Michael McDonald Back Up Band's masters?

    j/p
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited October 2009
    BrewTLG;3199688 said:
    What is needed to show Harmonix that you have a band's permission to track out and upload their music? Is there a form that the manager/label fills out?
    There is no submission of proof up front, like the kind of form you may be thinking of, but I am sure if something fishy comes up, or HMX is contacted by a band stating something is out of line, that they will be on you like bees on honey for a full fledged contract that displays your rights to use/distribute/whatever the right words are/ the songs in question.
  • RockAuthorsRockAuthors Unsigned
    edited October 2009
    This is a very good question. I haven't heard anything about any actual "forms" being required. I'm sure Harmonix will be watching carefully, and will pull songs if they find out a song was posted without rights. And just because someone has a multi-track recording of a song definitely does not mean they possess the rights.
  • BrewTLGBrewTLG Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    I'm working with a band right now and when I submit their song, I'm sure there might be some questions since they are on a label and are somewhat known. So yeah, any guidance from HMX on what kind of paperwork their looking for (some sort of contract?) would be great.

    We've come up with an initial agreement where I am going to do the first song for free. It's new to me and it's new to them as well. We both don't know how this will all work out and how well it will sell, and so we're both also trying to figure out is it better to have a flat fee per song, or a royalty based fee. (And what would the fee be for either one?)

    Plus, some of their newer songs, their label will have to sign off on it (and probably want to take a cut), so their manager is working out all of those details as well.

    Anyways, just trying to get everything in order as they're deciding what song they want to do first. I just didn't want to get hit with any delays on showing permission if I can already have the paperwork in place.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited November 2009
    BrewTLG;3207636 said:
    I'm working with a band right now and when I submit their song, I'm sure there might be some questions since they are on a label and are somewhat known. So yeah, any guidance from HMX on what kind of paperwork their looking for (some sort of contract?) would be great.
    I answered that above for ya already:
    davidshek;3201825 said:
    If you're serious about authoring a song (or songs) for a band and have questions about obtaining the proper rights, talk to an entertainment contracts lawyer.
  • RockAuthorsRockAuthors Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    BrewTLG;3207636 said:
    I'm working with a band right now and when I submit their song, I'm sure there might be some questions since they are on a label and are somewhat known. So yeah, any guidance from HMX on what kind of paperwork their looking for (some sort of contract?) would be great.
    Yea you should definitely get with a lawyer to help ink out some sort of contract with the band if you don't know what your doing.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    So the theory is that if there is a need to provide proof to hmx, that everyone is going to be sending their contracts in? Then hmx will have to put their lawyers on reading the contracts to ensure they are legit? And what about the case of an artist doing his/her own charting? There is no contract in that case.

    I hope instead that in the interest of delay minimization, hmx will release a short form that can be filled out, signed by the artist's representative, and faxed to hmx. Since I assume that hmx knows what qualifies as proof, they can easily create a form with this information on it. Otherwise we each have to come up with our own guesses at what they might want to see?

    Given that it is going to be very difficult to correct these issues once a song gets into the store, I think they are going to have to go proactive on this.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited November 2009
    We'll try to get a firm policy on this and keep ya'll informed.
  • BrewTLGBrewTLG Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    HMXMister_Game;3209128 said:
    We'll try to get a firm policy on this and keep ya'll informed.
    Thanks!

    And thanks to everyone for their input. I'm sure that any red flags would probably be brought up in the peer review. But having either some guidelines on what would be needed if there was ever a question, or a form that I can hand to clients would be great.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    BrewTLG;3215463 said:
    Thanks!

    And thanks to everyone for their input. I'm sure that any red flags would probably be brought up in the peer review.
    I have read various people saying things like this and I always have the same thought which is "how is a peer reviewer going to have any clue whether an author has permission to post a song?"

    I don't see peer review as a useful tool in this. There is no proof that can be presented to the reviewer and the reviewer has no information about any relationship between the author and the artist.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited November 2009
    ethicalpaul;3215481 said:
    I have read various people saying things like this and I always have the same thought which is "how is a peer reviewer going to have any clue whether an author has permission to post a song?"

    I don't see peer review as a useful tool in this. There is no proof that can be presented to the reviewer and the reviewer has no information about any relationship between the author and the artist.
    I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. The proof doesn't need to be presented to the reviewer, it needs to be presented to Harmonix.

    What he meant was that during the peer review process is probably when somebody might go, "Oh hey, I think this song belongs to X artist..."
  • BrewTLGBrewTLG Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    ethicalpaul;3215481 said:
    I have read various people saying things like this and I always have the same thought which is "how is a peer reviewer going to have any clue whether an author has permission to post a song?"

    I don't see peer review as a useful tool in this. There is no proof that can be presented to the reviewer and the reviewer has no information about any relationship between the author and the artist.
    True. I was just thinking in some blatant cases. Like, if someone doesn't know all of the rules and has access to some master tracks (like someone earlier mentioned that had master tracks for the Doobie Brothers) and they think "Hey, I'll get these up there, make a lot of money and get a check before anyone says anything."

    But you're right, a lot of times it won't be obvious. Hopefully Harmonix will be keeping track of which RBN Authors have rights to what bands, so that we don't have to do they "I've got permission dance" all over again.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    davidshek;3215490 said:
    I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. The proof doesn't need to be presented to the reviewer, it needs to be presented to Harmonix.

    What he meant was that during the peer review process is probably when somebody might go, "Oh hey, I think this song belongs to X artist..."
    Where X equals the artist that the author listed on the song?? I'm not sure how that is valuable. Every song belongs to an artist. The problem is that no reviewer has any information to determine if the artist gave permission to the author to post it.

    Or I'm really not following your point.

    I agree completely that the proof needs to be presented to hmx, and that's the point of this thread I think: what constitutes proof? It's the idea that peer reviewers have any useful role in the process that I disagree with.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    BrewTLG;3215493 said:
    Hopefully Harmonix will be keeping track of which RBN Authors have rights to what bands, so that we don't have to do they "I've got permission dance" all over again.
    I don't see how they can keep track of that, but maybe they'll surprise me. Already there has been an artist who has used 2 or 3 different authors. I feel the number of combinations of artists and authors is going to explode, so I hope they get in front of it--seems like a difficult problem to me.
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