Magma Error: invalid section name

qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
edited June 2010 in The Rock Band Network
I keep getting Magma errors regarding section names. I noticed after exporting my chart from Magma that it created text events in the EVENTS track like [section ugc_section_5.5], and that when I pause the game, it shows "ugc_section_5.5" in the pause menu, so I tried changing the section names to things like [section main_riff_1] and [section chorus_1] etc, and that's when I started getting errors. These events aren't covered in the creators.rockband.com tutorials, so I'm just wondering, what section names are considered valid?

The exact error is:
ERROR: MIDI Compiler: f:/rb-gh customs/documents/custom song files/islamatic, problematic/islamatic, problematic.mid (EVENTS): [section verse_1] at 25:1:000 does not have a valid section name

There is an error for every section event I put in, so none of them are valid. I don't want those ugly ugc_5.5 whatever names, so what can I put that won't throw out an error?

Comments

  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited November 2009
    The RBN doesn't support custom Practice Mode sections. You'll have to use the default ones that were auto-generated.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Not the answer I was hoping for, but thanks for clearing that up.
  • NoahTheDukeNoahTheDuke Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Any chance that might get changed? I'm super sad to think we can't name the sections.

    Noah
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Not just naming, but PLACING sections is something that would be really helpful. I'm going to try manually moving the generated sections to actual section breaks in the song and see what happens... Magma seems only to complain about the name, so as long as I use the generated names I may be able to at least create real sections... worth a shot I suppose.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited November 2009
    The problem is that we don't have any way for the creators to check these sections in Audition mode. We would have had to add a whole other "Audition Practice Mode", which we didn't have time to implement or test. As a result we auto-generate the practice mode sections for RBN songs.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Ok, that makes sense. I'm still going to play around with manually moving the sections when I get the chance, even if I can't name them.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited November 2009
    I'm not sure anyone's tried that, but I suspect what will happen is that any changes you make will get stomped by Magma when it generated the .rba file.

    But give it a whirl and let us know.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Ok, so after looking at it, here's what I've found. The section name events are [section ugc_section_5_xx] where xx is a number from 0 to 95 counting by 5, so there are 20 of them. They all have to be there or Magma throws a new error about finding an incomplete list of section names. I do wonder what's with the 5 in the name, maybe changing that number will change how many sections there are in the song, i.e. [section ugc_section_10_xx] will only have 10 sections maybe? I'm not sure, but bottom line is you CAN manually move the sections without Magma complaining, you just have to keep all of them.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Ok, so it looks like you CAN change that 5, but it can only be 5, 10, or 20. This affects how many sections there are in the song (100 / the number you choose = # of sections), then the second number starts at 0 and each consecutive section increments the second number by the first number, up until one before 100 (i.e. the last section will be 5_95, 10_90, or 20_80). So you do have a little control over your sections. So if you want to place your own sections, here is how you do it.

    Creating custom practice sections for RBN songs
    1. Decide how many sections you want in your song. You can have 5, 10, or 20. Those are your only choices

    2. Place new Text Events in the EVENTS track of your midi using the following labeling convention. [section ugc_section_xx_yy]

    3. xx is the same number for all of your sections. yy increments from one section to the next.

    4. xx is determined by the number of sections you will have.
    20 sections: xx = 5
    10 sections: xx = 10
    5 sections xx = 20

    5. yy is a counter starting at 0 and adding xx to the previous section

    6. The last value of yy should be one step short of 100, i.e. your last section should be 5_95, 10_90, or 20_80.

    Examples of valid section names:
    [section ugc_section_5_0]
    [section ugc_section_5_5]
    [section ugc_section_5_10]
    . . .
    [section ugc_section_5_95]
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    Nice reverse engineering!
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Thanks, I first got into this whole custom songs scene over at ScoreHero with Guitar Hero customs... which is ENTIRELY reverse-engineered. creators.rockband.com was like the holy grail of information, so filling in the blanks is immensely easier than it used to be. Now if I could just figure out how to manually create lip-sync data... I know Magma does it automatically, but I don't have an XBox 360, I have a Wii, so for testing I use... other methods I won't name here because I'm not sure what the policy is on discussing such things...
  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    qwertymodo;3212475 said:
    6. The last value of yy should be one step short of 100, i.e. your last section should be 5_95, 10_10, or 20_80.
    That should be 10_90 ;)

    Great info, this is actually really good news if HMX is going to be OK with people editing these. There still isn't a way to QA the placement of them, but I would hope nobody would be abusing this, and honestly the worst case is a 2 minute song has 20 sections in it. Thanks for posting this, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    ...ah yes, good catch, I'll fix it.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited November 2009
    There are cases (with very short or very long songs with odd time signatures, or very many time signature changes) that will cause the auto-generation of the practice sections to fail. In this case, we create just one big long section for the whole song.

    So given that it can fail automatically (though this should be a very rare case), I think we'll be OK with people manually editiing these. I'll check with my Overlords and try to get a final answer for you.
  • X Bad Daddy XX Bad Daddy X Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    And while we are looking at auto generated Events tracks, what the heck is the deal with D0 (26) getting a midi note on every beat?
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited November 2009
    After further review by the coding Gods here at Harmonix, I'm sorry to inform you that the Magma compiler will stomp the practice sections that you create (essentially it will regenerate them every time you create an .rba).

    We'll definitely look at adding this as a user-editable feature for a future release.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Yeah, I just managed to extract the chart out of the .rba and I can confirm Magma regenerated them all, so bummer... but adding it in as an option would be really nice :)
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    Now that the RBN has gone live and these songs are actually being bought and downloaded, I think this is an issue that should be revisited. These songs are no longer being played only in Audition Mode, so the previous argument that this feature was not useful because it would not be usable is no longer valid. Are songs really being released/sold with these auto-generated and horribly named practice sections? Or are song sections being manually added before a final release? Either way, I think it's time to discuss giving authors the ability to manually place/name the practice sections.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited April 2010
    qwertymodo;3656639 said:
    These songs are no longer being played only in Audition Mode, so the previous argument that this feature was not useful because it would not be usable is no longer valid.
    The songs still have to be tested prior to release, which is done through Audition Mode. The release of the RBN store has not changed anything from what was said here:
    HMXMister_Game;3211743 said:
    The problem is that we don't have any way for the creators to check these sections in Audition mode. We would have had to add a whole other "Audition Practice Mode", which we didn't have time to implement or test. As a result we auto-generate the practice mode sections for RBN songs.
    The sections are not nameable because there would be no way to test them in Audition Mode before a song is released. There will most likely not be any further updates to Audition Mode in RB2. If they were to implement this feature it would have to be done when RB3 is released which will presumably have its own updated audition mode. Same thing if they were to give us the ability to author harmonies - won't happen before RB3, because RB2's audition mode would have no way to test them.
  • qwertymodoqwertymodo Unsigned
    edited June 2010
    But what about the songs in the RBN store itself? They won't have proper practice sections! So (hypothetically, as I don't own a 360), if I were to purchase a song from the RBN store and want to play it in practice mode, I get a list of ugly-named sections that are placed at regular intervals in the song, instead of real practice sections with real names that actually correspond to real sections in the song.

    So I still feel this is a valid point. Not for testing purposes, but because of the fact that RBN is beyond the testing phase now and you are selling songs without proper practice sections. I know it's not testable in Audition Mode, it wouldn't have to be. Just let Magma allow them so that authors can properly mark their sections for use WHEN SOMEONE PAYS FOR THE SONG AND PLAYS IT NORMALLY.
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