Lip Sync on long notes

GuitarDude5321GuitarDude5321 Unsigned
edited November 2009 in The Rock Band Network
Hey, so at the beginning of my song, there's a long held out vocal note. For some reason though, the singer closes his mouth halfway through the note. The midi note is authored the correct length and the dry vox file is also good.

Any clues why this might be happening and any way to fix it?

Comments

  • socrstoprsocrstopr Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    The dry vox file being 'good' is entirely subjective, as Magma doesn't seem to like it :p

    But really, there's not much you can do except try to re-record that section of the dry-vox file to get a better animation, but long held notes are often a problem with the lip sync creator. You also run the risk of being off-pitch and messing up the weighting. My suggestion is to just cut away from the singer a ways into the note. It may not be optimal, but it's certainly the easiest way to deal with it :)
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    That's what I do.

    I have seen it noted in some places things similar to what you said, Andrew--that the dry vocal can affect the pitch detection and the "weighting" (a term whose meaning I am ignorant of in this context).

    Why does the dryvox affect those things? Apparently Magma doesn't just take the pitch scoring information from the vocal midi?
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited November 2009
    This explains it better than I can. :)
    Weights Compiler Failed

    Error: During phase 3, Magma complains that dry vox does not match vocal notes.

    Vocal Scoring Compiler: Starting...
    ERROR: Vocal Scoring Compiler: Failed to generate vocal weights; dry vox audio does not appear to match the vocal notes authored in the MIDI file
    Vocal Scoring Compiler: Done.
    ERROR: Project Compiler: Weights compiler failed.


    One of the things Magma does during Phase 3 is run a comparison between the dryvox audio of the vocal track and the MIDI notes that you put in for vocal notes. If the original singer was perfect, the audio and MIDI notes would always line up absolutely. But in the real world people wander off pitch, intentionally or not.

    ( Note: We use the same algorithm during phase 3 that we do in the game, when we are comparing your lovely singing voice coming through the mic with the note tube that the author of the song created. )

    During this Phase 3 comparison pass, when the sung note is a different pitch from the MIDI, we loosen up the scoring so that people playing the game aren't penalized for singing what they hear. However, if the vocal notes that are sung are consistently very different from the MIDI notes, you will get this error.

    There are several reasons this could be happening.

    * Maybe your dry vox isn't lined up properly with the MIDI note tubes.
    * Maybe you have authored the MIDI note tubes inaccurately.
    * Perhaps your singer is just really really off pitch.
    * Maybe you didn't record the song at A440.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    Wow, thanks trg! I keep being impressed with how much hmx did to make this game! I had no tiny clue that the game would cut the player extra slack in the case of a singer with questionable pitch! (or a mis-charted note)

    I wonder if that's new in RB2...because my friend (a fellow platinum mic like yourself) was so disappointed that RB2 had more forgiving pitch scoring than RB.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited November 2009
    Scoring in general was made slightly more lenient in RB2. It's not song-specific, as you can play imported RB1 songs in the RB2 engine and the vocal scoring is more lenient.

    The majority of players like this change, as you can actually sing the songs with a bit of style, even throwing in a little vibrato if you like, and still score well. In RB1 you had to be pretty robotic in order to score well on Expert.
  • GuitarDude5321GuitarDude5321 Unsigned
    edited November 2009
    Great info, thanks! Definitely helps to understand how the vocal scoring works.

    As far as the lip syncing problem, seems like the way to go is cut away from a closeup shot of the singer. The rest of the lip syncing is fine, but as suggested, the game doesn't seem to like long held notes that much.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    yep and it's a bummer because often times you might want to focus the camera on the singer during a long sustained note because it might be an important part of the song vocally.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited November 2009
    trg007;3228579 said:
    Scoring in general was made slightly more lenient in RB2. It's not song-specific, as you can play imported RB1 songs in the RB2 engine and the vocal scoring is more lenient.

    The majority of players like this change, as you can actually sing the songs with a bit of style, even throwing in a little vibrato if you like, and still score well. In RB1 you had to be pretty robotic in order to score well on Expert.

    This is why I don't really care for GH5's vocals, they have the small window for "error". I think it's like .5 half-tones or something where RB2 is 1.8

    half-tones might not be the right term
  • IcemageIcemage Road Warrior
    edited November 2009
    kingtonyx;3229963 said:
    This is why I don't really care for GH5's vocals, they have the small window for "error". I think it's like .5 half-tones or something where RB2 is 1.8

    half-tones might not be the right term
    GH5 has a lenience of 1.0 semitones.

    RB1 has a lenience of 1.2 semitones.

    RB2 has a lenience of 1.4 semitones.

    RB1 and RB2 also have a lot of bonus conditions that aren't present in GH5 (short words give a bigger boost, sliding pitches are easier, and the notes/words at the end of a phrase are worth more).
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited November 2009
    So is that 1.2 semitones in each direction from the actual note, or is it 1.2 semitones centered on the actual note? (±1.2 semitones vs ±.6 semitones)

    Is this documented, or did you calculate it with your voice being accurate to .1 semitones? :)

    Just curious
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited November 2009
    That's how far you can be off (above or below the actual pitch) to get the pie to fill up at all. Obviously it will fill up more slowly the further away you are from the note. I honestly don't know if those are the exact measurements to the nearest .1 semitone, but suffice it to say RB2 is easier than RB1, TB:RB, and GH5. :)
  • IcemageIcemage Road Warrior
    edited November 2009
    ethicalpaul;3233275 said:
    So is that 1.2 semitones in each direction from the actual note, or is it 1.2 semitones centered on the actual note? (±1.2 semitones vs ±.6 semitones)

    Is this documented, or did you calculate it with your voice being accurate to .1 semitones? :)

    Just curious
    The 1.2 and 1.4 semitones are culled directly from the data files from Rock Band 1 and 2 respectively.

    1.0 semitones for Guitar Hero 5 was provided to me directly from a Neversoft employee who did vocal charting in GH5 (and I would assume they would know).

    All values are relative to the target pitch, so you can be 1.x semitones away from the target pitch and still score.
  • Thom1234Thom1234 Road Warrior
    edited November 2009
    trg007;3228579 said:
    The majority of players like this change, as you can actually sing the songs with a bit of style, even throwing in a little vibrato if you like, and still score well. In RB1 you had to be pretty robotic in order to score well on Expert.
    I personally hated the change. Expert Vocals are ridiculously easy now; this week I gold-starred Icky Thump on my sightread, and I can truthfully say I was out of key, off pitch, and generally being terrible throughout. I got "awesome" on all but two phrases. I didn't feel like had achieved anything.

    On GH:WT/M/SH/5/BH, passing a song on X vocals feels like a huge achievement.

    Slightly off topic, but it's been getting to me lately. It may seem masochistic, but as someone who is borderline tone-deaf and can't carry a melody at all, I would prefer to have to put in some effort, like in GH, where I have to practice a hard song phrase by phrase. Hopefully HMX might realise before RB3 that some vocalists want a greater challenge than "Wail vaguely near some of the notes for half a phrase."
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