Should exported LRB songs appear as LRB or DLC?

SlaveOfAudioSlaveOfAudio Unsigned
edited December 2009 in LEGO: Rock Band
I have been debating this throughout the forums and few seem to see my point.

When Lego: Rock Band songs are exported into Rock Band 2, they show up as DLC - the same as any other DLC out there. This should not be the case. Like Rock Band 1, they should be tagged as being from a different location.

This includes:
1) Including LRB when sorting by location (RB1, RB2, LRB, DLC).
2) Including a LRB icon next to LRB songs, rather than the DLC arrow.

So, what do you think?

Comments

  • TVRobotTVRobot Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    I get the "they were downloaded so that makes them dlc" point, but i still want them to have there own thing. but yes technically they should have their own thing
  • DekieonDekieon Rising Star
    edited December 2009
    When people say DLC, they are refering to songs that you can download from the rockband store. This is why many of us don't consider Lego songs as DLC. It is also resonable to believe that this is why HMX refers to this an an export even though it isn't technically exported from the cd. The reason the Lego songs are downloaded and not actually exported most likely has to do with a license issue or copy protection issue.

    As for why we don't have a Lego icon for the songs, is because the older games would need to be patched in order to show up as lego songs and not DLC. Personally I think Harmonix should have just included the icon image into each song's data file like they they do with the album art, category, difficulty etc. It would only be a few bytes of data and would avoid the need to patch the older Rock Band games in order to display the songs correctly.
  • ClipheadCliphead Rising Star
    edited December 2009
    Blasteroids;3304342 said:
    Example..
    Person1 : "Dude you do not have x song, go get it. It shows as DLC."
    Person2 : "I looked at the store and its not there!!"
    Person1 : "Oh yeah, I actually got it from a disc. My bad. The icon shows as DLC."

    However, I am not sure how this would work for time-based disc packs that could eventually appear on the store. Suggestions anyone?
    There's always playing Lego and remembering which songs were in it.
    Personally I think Harmonix should have just included the icon image into each song's data file like they they do with the album art, category, difficulty etc. It would only be a few bytes of data and would avoid the need to patch the older Rock Band games in order to display the songs correctly.
    In 2007 they weren't considering exporting games and didn't see the point in embedding an icon that would be exactly the same for every single song they had planned.

    Rock Band 1 songs show up as such because they're in the Rock Band data as save files. The Lego songs are saved as downloadable content, a pack that the game doesn't see any different from, say, the Boston pack or Queen pack or any of those. They could have programmed it to think "If pack == 'Lego Rock Band Export Pack' location == 'LEGO Rock Band'" but that would have required a patch, which would have called for additional testing, probably would have screwed up a seemingly irrelevant detail in the interface, &c. Like I said, more trouble than it's worth.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited December 2009
    I'd love a lego designation. Probably requires a patch. I'll let them finish the PS3 RB2 patch before I complain about this though.
    ricecake;3303373 said:
    I would prefer the L:RB exports to be labeled differently from the rest of the DLC. I think the issue is that the L:RB songs are only available by exporting (this is also why I think the AC/DC pack should be separated as well.
    Isn't sorting by band good enough for this? They even show up in the same album.
  • ricecakericecake Road Warrior
    edited December 2009
    @Bront20:
    What you say is true, and it doesn't really bother me too much, but I just consider it a nice-to-have feature.
  • JixzerJixzer Hillbilly Deluxe
    edited December 2009
    Well, while we're at it I want a different Icon for AC/DC, The country track pack, if I bought the song individually or with a pack, the artist's zodiac, and their favorite bubble gum flavor.

    Seriously, it's friggin DLC, regardless of source. GTF over it.
  • JPSChampagneJPSChampagne Rising Star
    edited December 2009
    I know nothing about programming something like this, but to me, why not just do something with Rock Band 2 to display them differently and leave the first game seeing them as DLC? All it would take, one would assume is to just make the game see that one download as a different tier of songs.

    As for the DLC / not DLC argument - are you people crazy? Just because you physically downloaded it doesn't mean that makes it DLC. Those songs came on a disc just like the Rock Band 1 songs. They will never be available as downloadable songs. Never. Why sort them with songs that have a completely different method of delivery?

    AC/DC gets off the hook, to me, as those songs are all by one band. You can group all of those tracks together just by sorting by Artist. As it stands now, there is no way to group the Lego tracks with each other and that, to me, is a flaw.

    I'm not gonna quit Rock Band or boycott anything, but this was a disappointment and I hope that a patch can resolve it.
  • guitarjackedguitarjacked Road Warrior
    edited December 2009
    The "they are DLC so should be labelled as such because they were downloaded" is pedantry. Who cares what the method of obtaining those songs was? Only those that like to split hairs on technicalities. It would be preferrable if the songs could be labelled as LRB songs. No biggie really is it? If it's not possible or doesn't happen is not going to bother me. I don't understand why anyone is against this suggestion or attack those that would like just because the songs were downloaded. Generally, I believe people will see these songs as LRB songs not DLC.
  • EhfahqEhfahq Headliner
    edited December 2009
    "The "they are DLC so should be labelled as such because they were downloaded" is pedantry."

    No its not. You can say it until you turn blue but it doesnt make it true

    "Who cares what the method of obtaining those songs was?"

    The game does. Thats why its sorted as DLC.

    "I don't understand why anyone is against this suggestion or attack those that would like just because the songs were downloaded."

    Nobody in this thread is against it. And nobody attacked anybody.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited December 2009
    BallisticJunkfood;3299463 said:
    Where's the "I don't really care much" button?
    That's my vote. This whole "issue" is annoying as heck. Anybody who has the 45 songs on their HDD knows where they came from...
    JPSChampagne;3305924 said:
    I know nothing about programming something like this, but to me, why not just do something with Rock Band 2 to display them differently and leave the first game seeing them as DLC? All it would take, one would assume is to just make the game see that one download as a different tier of songs.
    The only way for RB2 to read them different is if they have the data in them to be read.

    If there's nothing in the song metadata that says "Hey we are from LEGO", then there's nothing the game can do about it. Short of hardcoding the list of 45 songs....and "hardcoding" is often times a dirty word.
    M3wThr33;3303414 said:
    I would like more categorizing, yeah. I think we all do. The 20 Bonus Pack was the start of it. 20 random songs interspersed into a huge library and many got lost.
    The same could be said for any newly downloaded song.
  • sirdecksirdeck Unsigned
    edited December 2009
    Well, the rock band 2 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The rock band 1 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The lego rock band songs are on-disc songs, they should also have their own icon.

    Of course we know why they don't have their own icon, but that's not a logical reason, it's a technical reason. Logically they should be differenciated from the "normal" dlc.

    Lego rock band songs aren't "normal" dlc, unless you are able to download it without a lego rock band export code found in a lego rock band copy ?

    I don't know why you are trying to argue in a technical point of vue, that's hmx's developpers problem, as for any software in the world.

    Anyway, this issue is not really a big deal ;)

    PS : sorry for my poor english, I'm french so I suck in english ;)
  • JixzerJixzer Hillbilly Deluxe
    edited December 2009
    sirdeck;3306702 said:
    Well, the rock band 2 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The rock band 1 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The lego rock band songs are on-disc songs, they should also have their own icon.

    Of course we know why they don't have their own icon, but that's not a logical reason, it's a technical reason. Logically they should be differenciated from the "normal" dlc.

    Lego rock band songs aren't "normal" dlc, unless you are able to download it without a lego rock band export code found in a lego rock band copy ?

    I don't know why you are trying to argue in a technical point of vue, that's hmx's developpers problem, as for any software in the world.

    Anyway, this issue is not really a big deal ;)

    PS : sorry for my poor english, I'm french so I suck in english ;)
    Honestly, your English is better than most of the native speakers here. :)
  • EhfahqEhfahq Headliner
    edited December 2009
    "Lego rock band songs aren't "normal" dlc"

    DLC is DLC. There is nothing technical about it.
  • sirdecksirdeck Unsigned
    edited December 2009
    Ehfahq;3306726 said:
    "Lego rock band songs aren't "normal" dlc"

    DLC is DLC. There is nothing technical about it.
    I've never seen it in my playstation store, that's weird... It can't be classified as a downloadable content because all you need to have it is not just one of the rock band games and internet.

    But I guess you've found your super-constructive argument no one could ever deny : "IT GOES THROUGH INTERNET !!!"
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    JPSChampagne;3305924 said:
    As for the DLC / not DLC argument - are you people crazy? Just because you physically downloaded it doesn't mean that makes it DLC.
    Well, yes, it really does. DLC stands for DownLoadable Content (or DownLoaded Content, depending on who you ask). By its very definition, the Lego song pack is DownLoaded Content because you downloaded it.
    sirdeck;3306702 said:
    Well, the rock band 2 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The rock band 1 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The lego rock band songs are on-disc songs, they should also have their own icon.

    Lego rock band songs aren't "normal" dlc, unless you are able to download it without a lego rock band export code found in a lego rock band copy ?
    The AC/DC live pack of songs are on-disc songs and are not available through the online stores. They don't have their own icon either. They are also listed as DLC because they too were downloaded songs.
  • ClipheadCliphead Rising Star
    edited December 2009
    guitarjacked;3306256 said:
    The "they are DLC so should be labelled as such because they were downloaded" is pedantry. Who cares what the method of obtaining those songs was? Only those that like to split hairs on technicalities.
    Logically, sorting by stars shouldn't require you to play the all songs again, but technically the game has no way of knowing the difficulty you played on. Logic is how it should be, but technicalities are more in line with what's actually possible.
  • BStu78BStu78 Road Warrior
    edited December 2009
    Cliphead;3306849 said:
    Logically, sorting by stars shouldn't require you to play the all songs again, but technically the game has no way of knowing the difficulty you played on. Logic is how it should be, but technicalities are more in line with what's actually possible.
    You're confusing two technical issues. He's talking about "technical" in term of semantics, while you are are referencing technical in terms of actual technology. Not that I agree with him, but he wasn't touching on the actual technical issues but only semantic issues.

    Indeed, though, the reason this won't happen is because the software engine can't do it without a patch and its clearly not a big enough issue to justify the software development expense. The current situation may not be ideal, but it is sufficient.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited December 2009
    sirdeck;3306702 said:
    Well, the rock band 2 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The rock band 1 songs are on-disc songs, they have their own icon.
    The lego rock band songs are on-disc songs, they should also have their own icon.
    Actually the RB2 songs are the only ones "on-disc". The RB1 songs are save files ripped DIRECTLY from the disc. Something LEGO is not.
    sirdeck;3306744 said:
    I've never seen it in my playstation store, that's weird...
    You also haven't seen the Country and Metal Track Packs, AC/DC, or the RB-20 pack.

    Regardless, this argument is so friggin' petty that it's not even funny. The only people bothered by this are the same people who already know the songs came from LEGO anyway.
  • JPSChampagneJPSChampagne Rising Star
    edited December 2009
    My issue with this is not so much knowing where the songs came from, but being able to quickly group them together and access them. I know where the songs came from and I don't need the game to tell me. It's all about correctly sorting the song library. These songs were packaged together and ought to be able to be displayed together. To bypass the now asinine "is DLC / is not DLC" argument as best I can, there just needs to be a way to group these songs together in Rock Band 2.

    This, obviously, was something HMX cared to allow us to do by providing a "Location" sorting option in the first place. Songs originating from different locations were meant to be grouped together. This is something we've already become accustomed to not out of something imagined, but by something already present in Rock Band 2. Logically, it makes sense to handle it the same way previous Rock Band games have been handled.

    I don't understand the perception of people caring about the issue as silly or wanting something they shouldn't have come to expect. No one is acting like it's the end of the world. I don't understand some people's harsh reaction toward anyone wanting this corrected. No one is really needing told "you shouldn't care" or "get over it".
  • JixzerJixzer Hillbilly Deluxe
    edited December 2009
    Well, the poll results pretty much reaffirms my belief that people are far too needy.

    Gimme, gimme, gimme.
  • SlaveOfAudioSlaveOfAudio Unsigned
    edited December 2009
    Jixzer;3307807 said:
    Well, the poll results pretty much reaffirms my belief that people are far too needy.

    Gimme, gimme, gimme.
    And your post count reaffirms my belief that some people have nothing better to do than to debate issues that they don't even care about.

    If you look at who is saying "you're all idiots because you don't think this is DLC," it's all the people with high post counts. This isn't debate class: it's bringing to light a bug that many of us are requesting be patched.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited December 2009
    SlaveOfAudio;3309361 said:
    And your post count reaffirms my belief that some people have nothing better to do than to debate issues that they don't even care about.
    No, we are debating the neccessity of such a feature using the counter-argument that we don't give a crap about where it goes. (Which appears to be an ever growing amount of people).
    SlaveOfAudio;3309361 said:
    If you look at who is saying "you're all idiots because you don't think this is DLC," it's all the people with high post counts. This isn't debate class: it's bringing to light a bug that many of us are requesting be patched.
    1) If you're going to open a discussion on a forum, be ready to hear from people you may not agree with. This isn't your blog, it's a forum. If you don't want to hear anybody disagree with whatever your views are, I strongly recommend that next time you keep them to yourself.

    2) Post counts have nothing to do with this. At all. If you can't assemble a decent argument without attacking the person you disagree with, perhaps you should reconsider the strength of your convictions.

    3) This is not a bug. There is nothing that is malfunctioning or otherwise preventing these songs from working once downloaded. At all. At worst, it's an inconvience.
  • jaydee321jaydee321 Unsigned
    edited December 2009
    I would love to see a LRB icon for the LRB songs. Still waiting to see a AC/DC icon and category too. Also think the 20 free DLC should be considered RB2. Yes I have a lot of opinions on this lol.

    Anyway, I think the reason why LRB is not seperated is because RB2 hasn't been programmed yet to see it as seperate. This is something that would need to be fixed with a patch.
  • badhack0x13badhack0x13 Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    Eh, I'd just like to be able to sort and find them easily, without having to try and remember all 45 songs. But then, I've got *hundreds* of DLC songs to scroll through, and a notoriously lousy memory for titles and artists (but hum me a bar, and I can sing along with you! :D).

    I've already had it happen, where I'd like to play and get some scores on the lego rockband import songs, but have to sort by unplayed and do the 'hmm, was this a DLC or L:RB song?' guessing game. Sorting by DLC...yeah, there's too many songs there... :o

    (Though to be honest, I'm looking forward to the next generation of sorting features that will hopefully be coming down the pipe in RB3. With hundreds turning into potentially thousands of DLC with RBN, there's probably going to be some new song management/categorization options for us - fingers crossed!)
  • SlaveOfAudioSlaveOfAudio Unsigned
    edited December 2009
    T-Hybrid;3309378 said:
    No, we are debating the neccessity of such a feature using the counter-argument that we don't give a crap about where it goes. (Which appears to be an ever growing amount of people).


    1) If you're going to open a discussion on a forum, be ready to hear from people you may not agree with. This isn't your blog, it's a forum. If you don't want to hear anybody disagree with whatever your views are, I strongly recommend that next time you keep them to yourself.

    2) Post counts have nothing to do with this. At all. If you can't assemble a decent argument without attacking the person you disagree with, perhaps you should reconsider the strength of your convictions.

    3) This is not a bug. There is nothing that is malfunctioning or otherwise preventing these songs from working once downloaded. At all. At worst, it's an inconvience.
    93% of us seem to disagree with you.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited December 2009
    SlaveOfAudio;3309435 said:
    93% of us seem to disagree with you.
    Your poll is flawed, as the only "disagree" option is one that forces somebody such as myself to group themselves in with a viewpoint they don't agree with. I would be curious what the results would be if you had included an "I don't care", which is what people are saying.

    Also, your "93%" provides no actual counterargument to any of the three points I made. At all.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    SlaveOfAudio;3309435 said:
    93% of us seem to disagree with you.
    The results of your "poll" show absolutely nothing. If I made a poll saying "Does your mom know you're stupid?" with two options, Yes and No, and 93% of people responded with "No", could I then say "My poll shows that 93% of people lie to their mother!!"? Of course not. The only thing it shows is that the only available answers for the poll are skewed.

    Try making a poll with non-biased answers and see what happens.
  • Banky71Banky71 Banned on the Run (Live)
    edited December 2009
    If someone doesn't care either way about a poll with two distinct choices why would someone care if there is a I don't care option in the poll. I think not responding or voteing is a firm I don't care vote. I would never indirectly call someone stupid for having an opinion different from mine if I truely didn't care.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    Banky71;3309572 said:
    I would never indirectly call someone stupid for having an opinion different from mine if I truely didn't care.
    Nobody indirectly called anybody stupid. The only reason I chose that particular example is because it's a common joke that has no good answer. Nothing was implied about the OP at all.
  • Banky71Banky71 Banned on the Run (Live)
    edited December 2009
    Is it really that important for you to show you don't care about a topic if you don't care about a topic? I understand saying "this is a topic I have no opinion about" but to so vehemently argue a point you don't care about seems counter productive.

    Me I would rather it showed a LEGO rather than just normal DLC for sorting reasons.
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