Vocals slightly out of key

Podruvan360Podruvan360 Opening Act
edited December 2009 in The Rock Band Network
I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but my question is this. Say you have a track that is tuned slightly in between two notes on the keyboard. Like, it's a bit sharper than E, but flatter than F. Is there a way to chart the vocals so they're not too sharp or too flat? The way that I have it charted now I have to sing noticeably sharp or flat depending on how I have it charted, and that's just not helpful for those who want to improve their singing.

If nothing works, I'll just edit the music slightly to match the pitches.

Comments

  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    Podruvan360;3313810 said:
    I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but my question is this. Say you have a track that is tuned slightly in between two notes on the keyboard. Like, it's a bit sharper than E, but flatter than F. Is there a way to chart the vocals so they're not too sharp or too flat? The way that I have it charted now I have to sing noticeably sharp or flat depending on how I have it charted, and that's just not helpful for those who want to improve their singing.

    If nothing works, I'll just edit the music slightly to match the pitches.
    You can't author semitones, so I'd go with your 2nd suggestion there: Change the pitch of the entire song up or down a bit until it matches up with the standard Western scale.
  • Podruvan360Podruvan360 Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    davidshek;3313833 said:
    You can't author semitones, so I'd go with your 2nd suggestion there: Change the pitch of the entire song up or down a bit until it matches up with the standard Western scale.
    Okay. Thank you for your help.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    davidshek;3313833 said:
    You can't author semitones...
    Actually, "semitones" are the chromatic notes on the keyboard. And I believe by "standard Western scale" you mean "equal temperament based on A440".

    But I'll forgive your mistake, since you're *only* a drummer... ;)

    At any rate, I believe HMX has indicated that they have a way of rectifying pitch issues without changing track speed, by specifying the cent offset somehow. I'm not sure if we mere mortals using Magma have that capability, though. It may be worth digging for that thread as a place to start for the real answer.

    (Dealing with some pitch issues myself, currently...)

    - m
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    Markleford;3318040 said:
    Actually, "semitones" are the chromatic notes on the keyboard. And I believe by "standard Western scale" you mean "equal temperament based on A440".

    But I'll forgive your mistake, since you're *only* a drummer... ;)
    I took 10 years of classical piano before ever touching a drumset. I just used the wrong word. :)
  • edited December 2009
    Markleford;3318040 said:
    At any rate, I believe HMX has indicated that they have a way of rectifying pitch issues without changing track speed, by specifying the cent offset somehow. I'm not sure if we mere mortals using Magma have that capability, though. It may be worth digging for that thread as a place to start for the real answer.
    We do have this ability here at HMX but it is not currently available in Magma. Maybe we'll be able to add it someday.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    davidshek;3318473 said:
    I took 10 years of classical piano before ever touching a drumset. I just used the wrong word. :)
    No hard feelings, it's just hard to pass up an opportunity for a drummer joke. ;)
    HMXEnosity said:
    Maybe we'll be able to add it someday.
    Yes please! Another for the big ol' TODO list...

    - m
  • Podruvan360Podruvan360 Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    HMXEnosity;3318654 said:
    We do have this ability here at HMX but it is not currently available in Magma. Maybe we'll be able to add it someday.
    Please do. This would be very useful.
  • MrOwn1MrOwn1 Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    Markleford;3318040 said:
    Actually, "semitones" are the chromatic notes on the keyboard. And I believe by "standard Western scale" you mean "equal temperament based on A440".

    But I'll forgive your mistake, since you're *only* a drummer... ;)
    Hey, I'M a drummer, and I noticed his mistakes!
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited December 2009
    MrOwn1;3319440 said:
    Hey, I'M a drummer, and I noticed his mistakes!
    Then you're not a drummer, you're a percussionist. :cool:
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited December 2009
    After talking with the coders, there is a way to do this. It's a bit hacky, but if you are careful it should work.

    If you open your .rba file in a text editor (it's probably too big for notepad, but something like EditPlus) you will see a well formed .dta file near the top of the file.

    If you search for 'tuning_offset_cents' you can edit the value from +50 to -50. Each cent is 1/100 of a half step, so you have enough control to adjust the tuning of your song up or down to the nearest "real" note, if that makes sense.

    You will probably have to make this edit manually every time you recompile, as Magma will stomp the value to 0.00 (we haven't tried this, so let us know). Also, make sure that you open and edit this in a decent text editor that doesn't try to save the file at the end as .txt, or add special curly braces, or whatnot. That will nuke your .rba file and ruin your day.

    Good luck!
  • edited December 2009
    I can't seem to find any documentation on pitch bending for vocal tracks. When I test my song, the multiple notes over a single word, it cuts off and moves tho the note. I see bends that flow fluently on other RB songs when there is a pitch change in the note tube on the vocals. Any help on how to accomplish this in reaper would be great. Thanks all.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited December 2009
    TheGlassIdentityCrisis;3326638 said:
    I can't seem to find any documentation on pitch bending for vocal tracks. When I test my song, the multiple notes over a single word, it cuts off and moves tho the note. I see bends that flow fluently on other RB songs when there is a pitch change in the note tube on the vocals. Any help on how to accomplish this in reaper would be great. Thanks all.
    http://creators.rockband.com/spec/Vocal_Authoring

    Scroll down to the "Syllables with multiple notes" section, about 1/3rd of the way down the page.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited December 2009
    TheGlassIdentityCrisis;3326638 said:
    I can't seem to find any documentation on pitch bending for vocal tracks. When I test my song, the multiple notes over a single word, it cuts off and moves tho the note. I see bends that flow fluently on other RB songs when there is a pitch change in the note tube on the vocals. Any help on how to accomplish this in reaper would be great. Thanks all.
    Um...you need to have blank space between notes in a slide so the game can draw the slide as a straight line between the end of one note and the start of the next. This won't be visible in Reaper; you have to play it in-game to see the slide.

    If you are placing your notes correctly you should always have space between them during the part where the singer is changing pitch, since nobody changes pitch instantly...well, not without stupid stuff like Auto-Tune. :)
  • theINCtheINC Opening Act
    edited December 2009
    I was thinking there was a solution to this that had to be better than changing to pitch of the actual song - Harmonix have used it on a few songs, from memory, Revolution in B:RB is stuck about halfway in between Bb and B in its key.
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited December 2009
    HMXMister_Game;3322044 said:
    After talking with the coders, there is a way to do this. It's a bit hacky, but if you are careful it should work.

    If you open your .rba file in a text editor (it's probably too big for notepad, but something like EditPlus) you will see a well formed .dta file near the top of the file.

    If you search for 'tuning_offset_cents' you can edit the value from +50 to -50. Each cent is 1/100 of a half step, so you have enough control to adjust the tuning of your song up or down to the nearest "real" note, if that makes sense.

    You will probably have to make this edit manually every time you recompile, as Magma will stomp the value to 0.00 (we haven't tried this, so let us know). Also, make sure that you open and edit this in a decent text editor that doesn't try to save the file at the end as .txt, or add special curly braces, or whatnot. That will nuke your .rba file and ruin your day.

    Good luck!
    Could this workaround possibly be applied to this thread too?
  • edited December 2009
    trg007;3326662 said:
    Um...you need to have blank space between notes in a slide so the game can draw the slide as a straight line between the end of one note and the start of the next. This won't be visible in Reaper; you have to play it in-game to see the slide.

    If you are placing your notes correctly you should always have space between them during the part where the singer is changing pitch, since nobody changes pitch instantly...well, not without stupid stuff like Auto-Tune. :)
    Ok, that makes sense. I was butting the notes up against each other with the the thought process that "I need to connect these notes to make them slide" I will try cutting a bit out.

    My only concern is that sliding into a note is a possibillity. If I start at A and slide up to B I go through 200 cents of pitch difference. True, it does not happen instantaneously, but over time. I want the note tube to show and establish that. So putting blank time between notes, does not acurately represent that and surely will not score it acurately.


    So this is what it I gather from your answer: If I, say, chart an eighth note at A, then a 16th space, then a whole note at B, use a + sign on the lyric for the whole note, then rock band will automatically create a visual slide between the eigth and whole?

    But if I chart the same thing without the 16th space in between, it will not put a visual slide connecting the two notes. (as it does in my testing now)

    Thanks for taking the time to answer, and I apologize for the questions that it raises still, but it just is not making logical sense to me. Your answer was much better than the guy above that pasted a link to the tutorial (which I have read a million times and only tells you to use a + sign to connect muti note syllables) I have attached 2 screen shots. The first is the way I authored it. It does not visually connect the note tube for the syllables. The second is the way that I am understanding that you would have me build it, resulting is a connected note tube due to the 1/16 note gap.

    I think I get it, If I start sliding into a note, I should create a very short note then a gap for the entire length of the slide, then a note that lasts the length of the ending note that it holds. This would have the game then create the slide in the gap. Is this correct? And the same if I slide out of a note just reversed?

    Please pardon my ignorance on the programming. I am a musician that is trying to become educated in this world. I think you guys will dig the tune, but I want to make sure it is right.

    Thanks for the help
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  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited December 2009
    Those screenshots are very helpful, as I can see what went wrong. :)

    Vocals aren't quantized to the beat as guitar/bass/drums are, so if you are aligning your notes to a 1/16 grid your chart is going to turn out very poorly in-game. You will end up with notes that are early, late, and/or not the correct length, and this will be worse if the tempo is slower.

    So, the first thing you need to do is change that 1/16 to 1/128 in the drop-down menu, and zoom way in so you can see every little line. Then match your note lengths up with the waveforms - but make sure you're not including consonant sounds.

    With slides, you don't want to just place a 16th note gap between every slide. The length of the blank space between the notes should match the length of time that the singer is transitioning between notes. So if you have an A to B slide, the first note should represent the length of time the singer is singing an A, then blank space where his pitch is changing, then the B should start at the point where he "arrives" at B.
  • edited December 2009
    trg007;3350234 said:
    Those screenshots are very helpful, as I can see what went wrong. :)

    Vocals aren't quantized to the beat as guitar/bass/drums are, so if you are aligning your notes to a 1/16 grid your chart is going to turn out very poorly in-game. You will end up with notes that are early, late, and/or not the correct length, and this will be worse if the tempo is slower.

    So, the first thing you need to do is change that 1/16 to 1/128 in the drop-down menu, and zoom way in so you can see every little line. Then match your note lengths up with the waveforms - but make sure you're not including consonant sounds.

    With slides, you don't want to just place a 16th note gap between every slide. The length of the blank space between the notes should match the length of time that the singer is transitioning between notes. So if you have an A to B slide, the first note should represent the length of time the singer is singing an A, then blank space where his pitch is changing, then the B should start at the point where he "arrives" at B.
    I moved them around and left the spaces for length of transision. It plays perfectly now and slides correctly. Thanks a ton for the help on that one. It was kicking my ass.
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