Will RBN Ever Come to PS3?

teh-roflcoptorteh-roflcoptor Unsigned
edited January 2010 in The Rock Band Network
I'm new here, and am apart of the 100% of the population that doesn't use the forum search feature, so don't flip-out and have a fatty-fit with this simple question.

Harmonix: whenever I first heard about Rock Band Network, I flipped out; finally, a chance for Sweet Action Cop to be heard! But then, I slowly made the sucky revelation; PlayStation 3 will only be able to buy select songs from RBN. We can only buy select songs...? That's all we get out of this awesome idea? We can't even make our own songs like you're allowing 360 users to do? Do you know how bad of an idea that was on your part, now? It's crazy. All I'm asking for is some equal treatment; I'm tired of everybody saying 360 is better. It's either we're equal, or you make it a console exclusive game.

Comments

  • Bobman32xBobman32x Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    Theyre working with sony to try to work something out. as a PS3er who long condemns some of the things harmonix does that shows 360 bias, this one is one i KIND OF let slide, because the Rock Band Network uses Microsoft's XNA creators service framework to use it.

    You CAN still chart and make songs and everything, as thats all done on the PC, but to upload them yes, at the moment you need a 360, and the $100 XNA Membership fee. People seem to forget that. every 360 user cant just make RBN songs out of the gate. Well they can, but they need to purchase the XNA membership, which the average user probably wont drop $100 on.

    Personally I feel that sony and harmonix will come up with some solution by the end of the year or early next year to get more or less the full RBN experiance. i just hope im still into music games by that point.
  • hiimSMAPhiimSMAP Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    I'm really worried about RBN never coming to PS3. It's my last hope to keep my interest in RB alive.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    teh-roflcoptor;3437209 said:
    Do you know how bad of an idea that was on your part, now? It's crazy. All I'm asking for is some equal treatment; I'm tired of everybody saying 360 is better. It's either we're equal, or you make it a console exclusive game.
    If you're apart from the people who don't use the search function, then you should know that this was not "an idea on their part". The PS3 lacks an indie development platform upon which to build the Rock Band Network, like the X360 has in the XNA Creator's Club. Once Sony catches up to Microsoft in that regard, I'm sure HMX will be happy to work with them on bringing the same functionality to the PS3.

    The short version is: This wasn't a Harmonix decision. It's a technical limitation of the PS3.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    teh-roflcoptor;3437209 said:
    All I'm asking for is some equal treatment; I'm tired of everybody saying 360 is better. It's either we're equal, or you make it a console exclusive game.
    Prepare to hear it once more. The 360 is better, at least in this case. Sony has very little interest in allowing people other than established companies to develop anything for the PS3. Microsoft's approach has been considerably more open in that respect. And are you really saying you'd rather not have the next iteration of Rock Band if there are features on the 360 that the PS3 can't/won't support? Strong words.
  • edited January 2010
    I don't have a 360, but my son does. So I'm doing my authoring on my PC, and will simply use my sons equipment to check out my work. I have a PS3. As long as I can create the piece on my PC, preview it, uploaded to RBN and then download to his machine to check it out, I'm happy with that. Then, if this all seems to pan out, I don't mind spending the bucks for a 360. I already have a Wii and a PS3, and own about 11 PCs in various roles at home and work. :-)
    Maybe you have a friend who would be willing to let you use his 360 occasionally to check your work. For the most part, you can do the entire authoring without a 360.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    You don't have to upload it to RBN to have your son then download it.

    You can mail the .rba file to him, put it on a server for him, or if he still lives in your basement, you can download it right to his xbox.

    I would think you'd definitely want to see/play/test it on his xbox before you uploaded it to RBN testing.
  • AbaddonAbaddon Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    I would not hold my breath if I were you. XNA was a platform of convenience that already existed. It doesn't make sense for anyone to do the same for PS3 without the system already existing. Anyone who really wants to author songs will just get a 360.

    I am hopeful that whatever mechanism ends up being implemented to bring songs over to the PS3 RBN store brings over all the songs. Besides the 30 day exclusive period I imagine any other kinks would be legal in nature and (hopefully) can be worked out. I'd hate to miss out on one of David's songs because I have a PS3 :-(.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Abaddon;3445315 said:
    I am hopeful that whatever mechanism ends up being implemented to bring songs over to the PS3 RBN store brings over all the songs.
    I was hopeful too, but it is to be a subset of songs. The criteria for deciding is not stated.

    One could reasonably guess that it will have something to do with how well a particular is selling on the xbox side.
  • edited January 2010
    My question is, why can't we just get all the songs that are released for the 360 on the PS3 too? Authoring is not a problem for myself, it's just I want the songs. I have invested WAY too much money into Rock Band for the PS3 to switch over to the 360 (I've spent over 400 dollars on downloadable content. I'm not going to abandon that.)
  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited January 2010
    The most obvious reason PS3 won't get all the songs is money.

    I would imaging that some sort of QA has to be done for each track, which someone has to pay for, prob HMX. I doubt Sony would allow stuff without testing on its system. This is already handled for the XBox by the peer review process.

    There has to be some payroll system set up. Right now, MS takes care of this for sales on 360 (actually I believe they farm it out to a third party). Sony does not have this so a company/personel will have to be hired to handle this for PS3 sales. This will also probably be done by HMX.

    So in order to cover all the costs that do not occur on the XBox, HMX will have to be sure the song will sell enough. Releasing a song that will not recoup the costs of Testing and/or Payroll will not be a viable business decision.

    * This is all speculation on my point, but it makes sense to me.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    My question is, why can't we just get all the songs that are released for the 360 on the PS3 too? Authoring is not a problem for myself, it's just I want the songs. I have invested WAY too much money into Rock Band for the PS3 to switch over to the 360 (I've spent over 400 dollars on downloadable content. I'm not going to abandon that.)
    As a PS3 guy who had to buy an xbox plus all the gear in order to author tracks for RBN, I totally sympathize and agree with your feelings on this.

    But I am going to guess that there are costs involved with transferring and/or storing this content in the PS3 store, and so they want to have the choice about which ones they are going to move over there. I'm hoping that a good number of the songs (especially mine!) will make it over.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Casto21;3446424 said:
    The most obvious reason PS3 won't get all the songs is money.

    I would imaging that some sort of QA has to be done for each track, which someone has to pay for, prob HMX. I doubt Sony would allow stuff without testing on its system. This is already handled for the XBox by the peer review process.

    There has to be some payroll system set up. Right now, MS takes care of this for sales on 360 (actually I believe they farm it out to a third party). Sony does not have this so a company/personel will have to be hired to handle this for PS3 sales. This will also probably be done by HMX.

    So in order to cover all the costs that do not occur on the XBox, HMX will have to be sure the song will sell enough. Releasing a song that will not recoup the costs of Testing and/or Payroll will not be a viable business decision.

    * This is all speculation on my point, but it makes sense to me.
    I don't really agree with you about the QA part, but yeah.
  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited January 2010
    ethicalpaul;3446528 said:
    I don't really agree with you about the QA part, but yeah.
    There has to be some sort of QA because there is no way Sony will put content online and not know if it works (at least i would hope not). It could be very small and be included in the transfering and storage that Sony probably charges as you stated.

    Anyway the point is, there are costs involved with every song and HMX needs to know they won't lose money bring over a song that won't sell.

    I wish this wasn't the case too. I play on a 360, but my brother plays on Wii and loves RB. I feel bad telling him about all the RBN news and songs, not knowing whether or not they will ever be available to him.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    They'll know it works because it will have been approved by 8 people who have XNA accounts, and will have been up on the Xbox store for at least 30 days getting bought, downloaded, and played.

    As for the rest, yes, I agreed with you on all that, you didn't need to repeat it :)
  • goofyyellowmangoofyyellowman Unsigned
    edited January 2010
    I find it ridiculous how rude some of you Xbox people really are... just because you get what you want (RBN) doesn't mean you have to come here and brag.

    Anyhow,
    I'm hoping it comes to PS3, it'll increase the sales tremendously... this weekly CRAP DLC (week after week) is putting me over the edge.. and I can see I'm not the only one.
  • thefncrowthefncrow Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    ethicalpaul;3446676 said:
    They'll know it works because it will have been approved by 8 people who have XNA accounts, and will have been up on the Xbox store for at least 30 days getting bought, downloaded, and played.

    As for the rest, yes, I agreed with you on all that, you didn't need to repeat it :)
    They're not playing the same package as the PS3 people. Different files. Are you sure there was no mistake in the process of creating the files? No one used the wrong version of the file, or put the wrong version of the content in, etc?

    As a software developer, I can tell you that everything gets QA'ed, no matter now small and insignificant the work. Even if I've got one bug that effects multiple systems and is fixed by modifying the same source code in each system in the exact same way, you can't just test it in the first system and then replicate to every other system. It has to be tested in each system independently before it's ready to be exposed to the public.

    Nothing hits a live user environment without being tested, and Sony would be complete fools to allow that to happen.
  • Weeksy77Weeksy77 Rising Star
    edited January 2010
    davidshek;3441232 said:
    If you're apart from the people who don't use the search function, then you should know that this was not "an idea on their part". The PS3 lacks an indie development platform upon which to build the Rock Band Network, like the X360 has in the XNA Creator's Club. Once Sony catches up to Microsoft in that regard, I'm sure HMX will be happy to work with them on bringing the same functionality to the PS3.

    The short version is: This wasn't a Harmonix decision. It's a technical limitation of the PS3.
    Errrrrrrrr...... What?

    I've read the comments from the community team that Microsoft worked closely with the Dev team to tweak and implement the fully fledged RBN - but if a claim was made on these boards by a Harmonix employee that Sony don't have the same capabilities or that it's through "a technical limitation of the PS3" as you claim - then that's pure rubbish, and I'd like to see some proof - as someone who has worked with a Dev kit, I would be surprised to read / hear such an ill-informed comment.

    I don't begrudge the 360 it's exclusives here & there - Microsoft obviously believe in the product enough to sink money into it, but it's a bit of a stretch to claim that the PS3 isn't up to snuff.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    thefncrow;3447827 said:
    They're not playing the same package as the PS3 people. Different files. Are you sure there was no mistake in the process of creating the files? No one used the wrong version of the file, or put the wrong version of the content in, etc?
    What makes you think that the RBA/RBS files are any different between the three platforms? Do you have evidence of this?

    It would be foolish and wasteful for hmx to have these three platforms, each with their own engine, and not have the three engines share the same song format.

    So of course the engines have to each be coded for each platform, but unless you can show me some evidence, I will believe that hmx is smart enough to use a shared data format between all of them.
  • JixzerJixzer Hillbilly Deluxe
    edited January 2010
    Weeksy77;3447887 said:
    Errrrrrrrr...... What?

    I've read the comments from the community team that Microsoft worked closely with the Dev team to tweak and implement the fully fledged RBN - but if a claim was made on these boards by a Harmonix employee that Sony don't have the same capabilities or that it's through "a technical limitation of the PS3" as you claim - then that's pure rubbish, and I'd like to see some proof - as someone who has worked with a Dev kit, I would be surprised to read / hear such an ill-informed comment.

    I don't begrudge the 360 it's exclusives here & there - Microsoft obviously believe in the product enough to sink money into it, but it's a bit of a stretch to claim that the PS3 isn't up to snuff.
    The "technical limitation" is the PS3 not having anything like Microsoft's XNA, which is what the RBN is dependent on. No rubbish in that post.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    Jixzer;3448001 said:
    The "technical limitation" is the PS3 not having anything like Microsoft's XNA, which is what the RBN is dependent on. No rubbish in that post.
    Right, that's what I said - "The PS3 lacks an indie development platform upon which to build the Rock Band Network, like the X360 has in the XNA Creator's Club." Sorry if that was unclear.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited January 2010
    goofyyellowman;3447260 said:
    I find it ridiculous how rude some of you Xbox people really are... just because you get what you want (RBN) doesn't mean you have to come here and brag.
    Nobody here is bragging. The PS3 literally does not have an XNA equivalent that allows for the independant development, distribution, and eventual compensation for authors.
    goofyyellowman;3447260 said:
    this weekly CRAP DLC (week after week) is putting me over the edge.. and I can see I'm not the only one.
    Nope. You're right. You aren't the only person on any given week that may not like the DLC options. That's why it's so cool that there's over 1000 songs to choose from.
  • thefncrowthefncrow Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    ethicalpaul;3447995 said:
    What makes you think that the RBA/RBS files are any different between the three platforms? Do you have evidence of this?

    It would be foolish and wasteful for hmx to have these three platforms, each with their own engine, and not have the three engines share the same song format.

    So of course the engines have to each be coded for each platform, but unless you can show me some evidence, I will believe that hmx is smart enough to use a shared data format between all of them.
    I'm not saying the internal data files aren't the same, I'm saying the distributable files are different, in order to comply with the differences in the DLC file formats between the two platforms.

    When it comes to testing, unless there's absolutely no difference in the files and environments, you test it. People on the 360 may have tested the file, and it may work in the 360 environment, but since what Sony is being given is not the same distributable package that was tested in the 360 environment, it has to be tested.

    The fact that it's already been verified for the 360 means it should sail through testing without a problem, but Sony would be monumental fools to just take the file and stick it on the store bypassing the standard verification procedures that apply for every other demo, patch, and piece of DLC Sony distributes.
  • Weeksy77Weeksy77 Rising Star
    edited January 2010
    davidshek;3448055 said:
    Right, that's what I said - "The PS3 lacks an indie development platform upon which to build the Rock Band Network, like the X360 has in the XNA Creator's Club." Sorry if that was unclear.
    Right - so your contention is that Sony would not have been able to provide the same infrastructure for the RBN that Microsoft could?

    I would like to be clear on this.... ;)

    I apologise however, my original post was perhaps a touch aggresive, and there wasn't a need for that.
  • oogaboohaoogabooha Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    As long as all the SOAD customs come our way I'm fine with it.
  • thefncrowthefncrow Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Weeksy77;3450650 said:
    Right - so your contention is that Sony would not have been able to provide the same infrastructure for the RBN that Microsoft could?

    I would like to be clear on this.... ;)
    No, not that Sony would not have been able to provide the same infrastructure. It's the fact that Sony doesn't provide the same infrastructure.

    XNA isn't something that Harmonix asked MS to do, it's a Microsoft initiative that was begun and supported before the idea of RBN was floated, a framework for small developers to be able to develop their own small games and distribute them. The ability for something like RBN to work requires this sort of platform to be in place first, and Microsoft provided it.

    If Sony develops their own sort of community development platform along the lines of XNA, it's not impossible that RBN could eventually extend to the PS3, but it's not going to happen until Sony develops the platform, and that doesn't currently appear to be a priority for Sony.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    Weeksy77;3450650 said:
    Right - so your contention is that Sony would not have been able to provide the same infrastructure for the RBN that Microsoft could?
    My contention is not that Sony CAN'T. My statement is that they currently DO NOT.

    I'm sure Sony CAN do this at some point in the future. But as of right now, they don't.
  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited January 2010
    oogabooha;3450666 said:
    As long as all the SOAD customs come our way I'm fine with it.
    Customs? If you mean people uploading their own charts of SOAD songs, then sorry not happening. Random customs are not allowed, only officially licensed material.

    If you are talking about SOAD formally putting their songs on the RBN, then they would would prob come to PS3. Bus as of now, there have been no announcement of SOAD songs.
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