So, what's okay to talk about here?

kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
edited January 2010 in The Rock Band Network
I see that the lid's coming off on a lot of songs that are in playtest and what not. I've been guilty myself.

However, I think about it a bit and down the road say a big name band wants to release their upcoming album to RBN on the same day. Yet to heard/known about/etc tracks will be flying around in playtesting. I'd imagine these sort of things would NOT be okay to talk about.

So, what's the word on what's okay to become public knowledge and what's not?

:)

Comments

  • thirdmortalthirdmortal Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    frankly I'm not sure why a band would be concerned that someone announced that they were bringing songs to rock band network. Anyone with an account can login and see what songs are being playtested. Those songs are clearly public knowledge. Also the whole point of advertising is to generate buzz before the release of the product. The earlier the buzz the more successful the advertising so I don't see why anyone would have a problem announcing their stuff as early as possible.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited January 2010
    We've been having this discussion over on the RBN creators forums.

    Here's what I was told from a HMX employee on the day I signed up :

    Here was the official HMX response as of sept 22:

    "We know that the songs in playtest are going to be talked about, so anyone who submits a song for playtest or peer review understands that that information is going to get out to the public. It’s fine to talk about what you see on the site."


    Some of the creators on the site don't think we should talk about them outside of the site, BUT we're not allowed to talk about them ON the site(just do the reviews and that's it).

    So I asked them where SHOULD we get together to talk about them, and I've gotten no response yet.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited January 2010
    thirdmortal;3465860 said:
    frankly I'm not sure why a band would be concerned that someone announced that they were bringing songs to rock band network. Anyone with an account can login and see what songs are being playtested. Those songs are clearly public knowledge. Also the whole point of advertising is to generate buzz before the release of the product. The earlier the buzz the more successful the advertising so I don't see why anyone would have a problem announcing their stuff as early as possible.

    Another point I brought up, but was told it wasn't anyone's place but the artist or charter to announce what was coming.

    I think they'd want that word of mouth.

    I mean look at how many people are now hyped up and wanting to purchase tracks/sign up for XNA to playtest because of the 'leak' thread.

    I just don't get the need for secrecy at this point I guess.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited January 2010
    yeah, I agree it seems to be a good thing to let people know in most cases

    I'm just thinking with the upcoming album example, the track names/etc could pop up before they're known to the general public or whatever. Not that it's a huge deal, but some artists/labels may want to keep it a surprise.
  • ZhaneBXZhaneBX Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    I'm really glad about the songs that got "leaked". It hyped me even more, you can't imagine how my jaw dropped. :D

    There should be more leaks! :p
  • moomandwwmoomandww Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    I 100% agree with noble on this. Its stupid how some members are trying to shush up everybody about whats in the pipeline. Why on earth would anyone want to kill hype they could have by announceing there songs early?
  • ImaCarrotImaCarrot Unsigned
    edited January 2010
    How is your enthusiasm for a song doing a month after it was first announced and it has still not shown up in the store? How about 2 months? 6? There is a reason why Harmonix themselves try to hold off on announcing tracks until close to release date, the tracks are still fresh in everybody's mind and none of the excitement has been diminished. Timing is everything when trying to maximize sales.

    Good example; remember when Harmonix announced the sort by stars patch? Remember how excited everyone was about that patch for the weeks to follow? Remember how excitement slowly turned to disdain and sometimes hatred in the months to follow? People are still complaining about the announced Pantera DLC that has yet to be released.
  • BStu78BStu78 Road Warrior
    edited January 2010
    As has been pointed out to noble, the biggest reason not to go off blabbing about unannounced songs in public forums is because there is no guarantee they will ever be released. At least one song noble himself leaked has already been abandoned by its developer. The problem with leaking this information is it sets up expectations. When they don't come to pass, you get people "demanding answers". I don't think its really fair to take it upon yourself to set up those expectations. If a developer wants to announce something, they are also going to be the one who answers for it if it falls through. You won't be if you take it on to leak information. The developer or Harmonix will be the one subjected to the disappointment.

    Look, Harmonix is being upfront that this isn't something they can stop. They don't want to set up expectations from developers that would be too difficult for Harmonix to enforce. That isn't, however, an encouragement to leak songs that are in playtesting. Harmonix was managing expectations from Creators. That doesn't mean creators should be happy about it or shouldn't discourage it, as it sounds like they reasonably ARE doing so.

    You can try to justify it as giving a song exposure all you like, but that's really not your decision to make. Its the developer's. Many are obviously keen to get exposure and have announced a ton of songs. Those who don't have their own reasons. While they know that they can't prevent someone from leaking those songs, there is nothing saying YOU should be that person.

    And another thing, the fact that people want to find out this information is NO justification for leaking it either. I want to find out the songs Harmonix has in their pipeline, too. We all want to know things that we can't know. So what. We deal.

    There is no real value in leaking songs that are in playtesting. When the songs have been approved, go nuts. They get publicly listed then. Until then, I'd respect the developers. Its just the right thing to do.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Well said, but so far similar arguments have fallen on deaf ears.
  • bootz0rsbootz0rs Rising Star
    edited January 2010
    noble;3465888 said:
    Another point I brought up, but was told it wasn't anyone's place but the artist or charter to announce what was coming.

    I think they'd want that word of mouth.

    I mean look at how many people are now hyped up and wanting to purchase tracks/sign up for XNA to playtest because of the 'leak' thread.

    I just don't get the need for secrecy at this point I guess.
    Exactly, plus this place isn't all that active of a section of the board.
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited January 2010
    Here’s the problem with all the arguments against talking about the songs. (no matter how valid they may be.) By allowing a part of the public to review the songs in development you’ve opened a Pandora’s box you can’t control. Since that's something that can’t be controlled, why even bother? These aren’t employees that can be fired or sanctioned for revealing to much info. It's going to get out anyway. By not allowing talk about it on the forums all your doing is removing your chance to rebute anything that's false.

    If an artist wants it to remain secret until a certain point then they shouldn’t be using RBN, they should be having Harmonix do it in-house.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468249 said:
    Here’s the problem with all the arguments against talking about the songs. (no matter how valid they may be.) By allowing a part of the public to review the songs in development you’ve opened a Pandora’s box you can’t control. Since that's something that can’t be controlled, why even bother? These aren’t employees that can be fired or sanctioned for revealing to much info. It's going to get out anyway. By not allowing talk about it on the forums all your doing is removing your chance to rebute anything that's false.

    If an artist wants it to remain secret until a certain point then they shouldn’t be using RBN, they should be having Harmonix do it in-house.
    I have to agree with this.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468249 said:
    If an artist wants it to remain secret until a certain point then they shouldn’t be using RBN, they should be having Harmonix do it in-house.
    What a completely ludicrous statement to make. Do you honestly believe we all have the option of having Harmonix make our songs into DLC in-house, but we instead choose to use RBN to release our songs? ("we" being the unsigned bands using RBN)
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited January 2010
    davidshek;3468482 said:
    What a completely ludicrous statement to make. Do you honestly believe we all have the option of having Harmonix make our songs into DLC in-house, but we instead choose to use RBN to release our songs? ("we" being the unsigned bands using RBN)
    No I don't. But why would you be hiding the fact you're trying to get in the game?
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468574 said:
    No I don't. But why would you be hiding the fact you're trying to get in the game?
    For the same reason that HMX doesn't announce DLC the minute that the ink dries on the licensing contract - because things can go wrong at any time (see: "Moving Pictures"). Maybe we try to author our own charts and it ends up being too difficult and we quit after the first round of playtesting. Maybe we go with an authoring company and they end up taking months longer than we thought they would. Or maybe the authoring company closes up shop and goes out of business before ever finishing up our song.

    In every one of those cases, we would be left having to answer questions like, "But you announced 6 months ago that those songs would be in Rock Band! Where are they?!?!"

    There are a thousand reasons why we might not want it announced right away, especially if it's by some random forum user that decides it's their place to leak it on the public forum. Those are just 3 examples.
  • kuiosiklekuiosikle Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468574 said:
    But why would you be hiding the fact you're trying to get in the game?
    In case your scroll bar doesn't work below are some reasons an artist/developer might have. It doesn't mater if you like the reasoning. It's their content. They are entitled to their reasons. The public however, (in my opinion) is not entitled to anything until a song is approved for sale.
    ImaCarrot;3466407 said:
    How is your enthusiasm for a song doing a month after it was first announced and it has still not shown up in the store? How about 2 months? 6? There is a reason why Harmonix themselves try to hold off on announcing tracks until close to release date, the tracks are still fresh in everybody's mind and none of the excitement has been diminished. Timing is everything when trying to maximize sales.
    BStu78;3466738 said:
    As has been pointed out to noble, the biggest reason not to go off blabbing about unannounced songs in public forums is because there is no guarantee they will ever be released. At least one song noble himself leaked has already been abandoned by its developer. The problem with leaking this information is it sets up expectations. When they don't come to pass, you get people "demanding answers". I don't think its really fair to take it upon yourself to set up those expectations. If a developer wants to announce something, they are also going to be the one who answers for it if it falls through. You won't be if you take it on to leak information. The developer or Harmonix will be the one subjected to the disappointment.
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited January 2010
    davidshek;3468680 said:
    For the same reason that HMX doesn't announce DLC the minute that the ink dries on the licensing contract - because things can go wrong at any time (see: "Moving Pictures"). Maybe we try to author our own charts and it ends up being too difficult and we quit after the first round of playtesting. Maybe we go with an authoring company and they end up taking months longer than we thought they would. Or maybe the authoring company closes up shop and goes out of business before ever finishing up our song.

    In every one of those cases, we would be left having to answer questions like, "But you announced 6 months ago that those songs would be in Rock Band! Where are they?!?!"

    There are a thousand reasons why we might not want it announced right away, especially if it's by some random forum user that decides it's their place to leak it on the public forum. Those are just 3 examples.
    So you’re a no name band yet have a following on a forum that is going to go ballistic if you don’t follow through on something?
    kuiosikle;3468696 said:
    In case your scroll bar doesn't work below are some reasons an artist/developer might have. It doesn't mater if you like the reasoning. It's their content. They are entitled to their reasons. The public however, (in my opinion) is not entitled to anything until a song is approved for sale.
    It’s the public that's reviewing your song. You allow anyone with an account to review it. It’s like going to Times Square and yelling a quote only to complain when someone tells people what you said. Once you submit a song anyone willing to pay can see it. So why can’t others know?
  • kuiosiklekuiosikle Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468790 said:
    It’s the public that's reviewing your song. You allow anyone with an account to review it. It’s like going to Times Square and yelling a quote only to complain when someone tells people what you said. Once you submit a song anyone willing to pay can see it. So why can’t others know?
    I meant "the public' in a much broader sense. As you pointed out only those willing to pay can see a song while it's still in the pipeline. That's an important distinction, and not even comparable to the amount of people walking around Time Square at any given moment. So you analogy doesn't hold.

    Right now it's left up to those in the (comparatively small) creators community to decide for themselves what information they disclose. We know what side of this argument you stand on, and no one seems to persuade you otherwise. Thankfully that doesn't affect anyone while the text under "Premium User" continues to read "No".

    (the tone of that got a lot more negative than I was expecting, sorry!)
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited January 2010
    kuiosikle;3468881 said:
    I meant "the public' in a much broader sense. As you pointed out only those willing to pay can see a song while it's still in the pipeline. That's an important distinction, and not even comparable to the amount of people walking around Time Square at any given moment. So you analogy doesn't hold.

    Right now it's left up to those in the (comparatively small) creators community to decide for themselves what information they disclose. We know what side of this argument you stand on, and no one seems to persuade you otherwise. Thankfully that doesn't affect anyone while the text under "Premium User" continues to read "No".

    (the tone of that got a lot more negative than I was expecting, sorry!)
    So for you the distinction is monetary? Those with are privy to the info, those without are not?
  • kuiosiklekuiosikle Opening Act
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468906 said:
    So for you the distinction is monetary? Those with are privy to the info, those without are not?
    Those who are submitting and/or play testing the tracks, and those who aren't. For me the distinction is the number of people in your hyperbole example of Time Square vs the number of people in the creators club with the info, that's what I was talking about. It'd be great if XNA was free but obviously it's not.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited January 2010
    Lawdog1521;3468790 said:
    So you’re a no name band yet have a following on a forum that is going to go ballistic if you don’t follow through on something?
    Where did I say we're a "no name band"? I said the word "unsigned". I never said no name. In fact, if you look around a bit on here, you'll find that we actually have quite a decent number of fans on this forum. And a rather large one in other places around the Interwebz. So the answer to your question, if I disregard the backhanded "no name" insult, is "yes".

    What you seem to fail to recognize here is that the RB.com forums are not the end-all-be-all of RBN's existence. Somebody could see something here, and then go post about it on our Myspace page, or our Facebook page (which has, and does happen, btw). And guess what just happened? Now there's thousands of other fans of ours that DON'T frequent the RB.com forums that are now seeing information about a song that might never actually get released. See how this spreads around? It's not just about these forums.
  • bigmfbigmf Tiny Hulk Smash!
    edited January 2010
    I think it probably should not be discussed for some of the reasons already given. However, songs in playtest will be discussed - it's human nature. Appealing to intelligence or people's sense of right and wrong won't help because there is no intelligence or morality requirement to become a playtester. Having said that, it will be up to bands to decide if the good outweighs the bad.
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