Are you worried RBN will change charting?

jakeellis01jakeellis01 Opening Act
edited March 2010 in The Rock Band Network
Are the charts final edited by HMX themselves before this gets released?

If not, am I the only one worried that maybe RBN will eventually change the charting we all got used to from HMX?

Discuss..

Comments

  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited March 2010
    as long as the Playtesting/Peer Review process is good, this should not be a problem
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    i'm more excited than worried by that possibility after seeing bill bruford up in the hizzey.
  • BlurbiaBlurbia Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Yeah some songs [ON DRUMS] had parts that didn't flow very well.

    Either the charter was going for difficulty, or was trying to chart it as 'accurately' as possible and forgetting that most of us are playing on a rock band kit, or some other reason, but some parts on some songs are TOO AKWARD to play on A ROCK BAND KIT.

    Also, I would like it if charters kept BREs consistent. Push Push (LL) really should have had a BRE.
  • Jet BlankJet Blank Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Blurbia;3542595 said:

    Also, I would like it if charters kept BREs consistent. Push Push (LL) really should have had a BRE.
    I actually liked the fact that it didn't have a big rock ending, makes it feel much like it does on Guitar Hero II.
  • BlurbiaBlurbia Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Jet Blank;3542615 said:
    I actually liked the fact that it didn't have a big rock ending, makes it feel much like it does on Guitar Hero II.
    While it's cool for nostalgia value, it makes it feel nothing like Rock Band.

    On drums, it was akward and not fun to play, at all.

    Just as a note - I thought the song was amazing, I especially enjoyed the placement of the energy phrases (OD phrases?), which I would've expected a good chunk of charters/people to not think about as much. Just didn't like the inconsistency with the lack of a BRE.
  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited March 2010
    I was a little iffy on the BRE (or lack there of) but the band themselves requested it be charted. I think it's awesome that they were that involved and cared about the charts. It's crazy and it's different, but I'm cool with it.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited March 2010
    "Push Push (Lady Lightning)" would not have had a BRE even if HMX had charted it.
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    Yeah I'm not sure what you mean when you say keep BREs consistent. BREs have always sounded like a random flailing and wailing around at the end of a song. PP (LL) has a very deliberate ending.
  • XenigmaXenigma Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    It's notable that the BRE is suggested in the RBN docs, but isn't actually required. Steve Vai's "For the Love of God (Live)" also opts for a charted BRE, which I found interesting. It works in that case because, well, it's Steve Vai. It was kinda weird to play, but I enjoyed it for sure.

    If a particularly un-fun charted BRE appears, though, you can bet it'll be voted down long before it reaches the RBN store. As for worrying about RBN changing how Harmonix charts, I'd have to imagine Harmonix only changes their charting if they think it makes it better, so I wouldn't worry. ;)
  • BlurbiaBlurbia Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Casto21;3542666 said:
    the band themselves requested it be charted.
    That makes me feel better about it, for the same reason-
    Casto21;3542666 said:
    I think it's awesome that they were that involved and cared about the charts.
  • I_Love_YouI_Love_You Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    Blurbia;3542641 said:
    While it's cool for nostalgia value, it makes it feel nothing like Rock Band.

    On drums, it was akward and not fun to play, at all.

    Just as a note - I thought the song was amazing, I especially enjoyed the placement of the energy phrases (OD phrases?), which I would've expected a good chunk of charters/people to not think about as much. Just didn't like the inconsistency with the lack of a BRE.
    I hate BREs, but in this case you have the dilema of drums being horrible and guitar being amazing... you want a BRE on one but not the other.
  • BrynCamaroBrynCamaro Harmonix Developer
    edited March 2010
    I wouldn't worry about much of a change in the charting. Like I said in the other thread, I asked for no BRE to make it feel like GH2. So, yeah, it made the drums crazy, but a lot of people seem to like it. I'm sorry if anyone didn't like it. I'm sure most people will stick with the BREs. I would opt for them in other songs.
  • XathianXathian Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    I do fear it. Bands will expect their songs to be realistically hard, for a damn video game that people play to have fun. Then it gets peer reviewed mostly by the people who would actually pay $100 just to play test for Rock Band: The Rock Band Elitists that Gold Star 200+ songs.

    Meanwhile, the broad audience and the vast majority of the player base will just end up with a store full of Capiri di Diablo.
  • BrynCamaroBrynCamaro Harmonix Developer
    edited March 2010
    Ha, yeah. I can see that. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of shredfests coming up in RBN. On the other hand, there will probably be a lot of Jonathan Coulton types and less aggressive songs. It will be interesting to watch!
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited March 2010
    There's variety between hard and easy songs on RBN, for instance I just tried out this song earlier...

    "Your Call"
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Xathian;3542949 said:
    I do fear it. Bands will expect their songs to be realistically hard, for a damn video game that people play to have fun. Then it gets peer reviewed mostly by the people who would actually pay $100 just to play test for Rock Band: The Rock Band Elitists that Gold Star 200+ songs.

    Meanwhile, the broad audience and the vast majority of the player base will just end up with a store full of Capiri di Diablo.
    Many playtesters are very conscious of making charts reasonable, particularly ones that are also authors themselves. We especially make sure the Easy and Medium parts remain sane, as those difficulty levels *do* tend to be ignored by the "Expert Elite" crowd who have just ponied up their $100 to feed their Difficulty Addiction. ;)
    BrynCamaro;3542965 said:
    Ha, yeah. I can see that. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of shredfests coming up in RBN. On the other hand, there will probably be a lot of Jonathan Coulton types and less aggressive songs. It will be interesting to watch!
    That's also a saving grace: while there *is* a scary amount of insanely technical metal that's coming out on RBN (thanks in part to some big metal labels really believing in the platform: kudos!), there's also plenty of other material out there that isn't catering to difficulty whores.

    (Insert plug for James William Roy, "Paper Valentines" here! Only 80 MSpoints! :) )

    But as far as making technical songs technical? Well, that's as it should be, no? The only thing authors have to make sure of is that their Hard charts (and lower) still remain fun! Hopefully the playtesters can keep them honest in this regard.

    - m
  • DeschainDeschain Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    Xathian;3542949 said:
    I do fear it. Bands will expect their songs to be realistically hard, for a damn video game that people play to have fun. Then it gets peer reviewed mostly by the people who would actually pay $100 just to play test for Rock Band: The Rock Band Elitists that Gold Star 200+ songs.
    For hating on the elitists, you're certainly acting like a snob. "How dare they place a colored gem for every appropriate note in the song that prevents me from playing at a level I'm accustomed to!"

    Go to hard.

    If there are only shredfests, that means they're the only ones passing review. Which seems unlikely, considering most "shredfests" have many more notes, which would probably take longer to do a thorough review on. Looking at the release list, there is certainly a good amount of metal on there, but there's plenty of other stuff that isn't close to 5 red devils. I'm looking forward to all of it.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    jakeellis01;3542543 said:
    Are the charts final edited by HMX themselves before this gets released?

    If not, am I the only one worried that maybe RBN will eventually change the charting we all got used to from HMX?

    Discuss..
    Huh...?
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    Xathian;3542949 said:
    I do fear it. Bands will expect their songs to be realistically hard, for a damn video game that people play to have fun. Then it gets peer reviewed mostly by the people who would actually pay $100 just to play test for Rock Band: The Rock Band Elitists that Gold Star 200+ songs.
    Wow, way to overgeneralize and in the process of doing that insult the entire RBN peer review community.

    Go look at the list, there's not as many "OMG CAPRICI!" songs as you'd think going by your uber-negative assessment.
    Xathian;3542949 said:
    Meanwhile, the broad audience and the vast majority of the player base will just end up with a store full of Capiri di Diablo.
    Or not, considering the current assortment of songs and knowledge about songs in the pipeline.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited March 2010
    T-Hybrid;3543012 said:
    Go look at the list, there's not as many "OMG CAPRICI!" songs as you'd think going by your uber-negative assessment.
    Indeed. If you browse the RBN store by Difficulty, there's only like 2 songs in the top tier, and a handful in the tier right below that. The vast majority are in the middle 2 tiers.
  • bredcaykzbredcaykz Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    davidshek;3543049 said:
    Indeed. If you browse the RBN store by Difficulty, there's only like 2 songs in the top tier, and a handful in the tier right below that. The vast majority are in the middle 2 tiers.
    Being an uber-shredder/drum-smasher, I was kinda disappointed.
    Then I saw Ikea and Creepy Doll by Johnathan Coulton.
    Not all us good players need hard songs to have fun.
  • trg007trg007 Your Ever Rocking RBN Forum Guru
    edited March 2010
    There are a certain set of charting rules that *have* to be obeyed, and a larger set of general guidelines, a.k.a. bendable rules. Given that charts are being done by a bunch of different people, of course there will be differences from HMX charts. But if they're still fun to play that's all that matters. :)

    HMX has actually encouraged people to have fun with the RB format and do things that HMX themselves may not have thought of or chosen not to do in the more "mainstream" RB music store. This is a perfect example.
  • sieesiee Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    L O L
    saxophone vocals, hardcore.
  • jakeellis01jakeellis01 Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    T-Hybrid;3543009 said:
    Huh...?
    can't see whats not to get....
    trg007;3543325 said:
    There are a certain set of charting rules that *have* to be obeyed, and a larger set of general guidelines, a.k.a. bendable rules. Given that charts are being done by a bunch of different people, of course there will be differences from HMX charts. But if they're still fun to play that's all that matters. :)
    glad to see these rules are applied... by any chance, do you know any of these guidlines? Is there a list or something? might be an interesting read :)
  • cherokeesamcherokeesam Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    BrynCamaro;3542800 said:
    I wouldn't worry about much of a change in the charting. Like I said in the other thread, I asked for no BRE to make it feel like GH2. So, yeah, it made the drums crazy, but a lot of people seem to like it. I'm sorry if anyone didn't like it. I'm sure most people will stick with the BREs. I would opt for them in other songs.
    Anyone who doesn't like playing Bang Camaro the way God intended is un-American and has brought shame and disgrace on their family for generations to come. (sorry, Fox News was on in the background)
  • RockBandRockerRockBandRocker Love Is A Battleship
    edited March 2010
    I will say this about some of the RBN charts...

    OUCH!

    I seriously got a slight hand cramp after playing the Amberian Dawn and 3 Inches Of Blood songs. But you know what? I had FUN while getting that hand cramp!

    From my experience playing RBN songs, the charting feels right for the music.

    I'm not a play tester/peer-reviewer, BUT as a player of A LOT of RB, I can tell you that none of the charts I played felt under or over-charted.
  • RockBandRockerRockBandRocker Love Is A Battleship
    edited March 2010
    cherokeesam;3543420 said:
    Anyone who doesn't like playing Bang Camaro the way God intended is un-American and has brought shame and disgrace on their family for generations to come.
    This (^) is true!

    Getting Bang Camaro (technically) early was the highlight of yesterday. In fact, it was the first RBN song I purchased. :D
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited March 2010
    I've always felt that each difficulty had a wide berth for what is acceptable in that difficulty.

    You can have a medium song that you could do blindfolded and still almost fall asleep, and at the other end of the spectrum, a medium song could give you a bit of a challenge if you're not prepared for it.

    I feel the RBN songs tend to hover in the harder area of what is allowed in each difficulty.

    They're not over charted, they just are charted...differently than we're used to and that unknown quantity makes them harder IMO.

    A hmx chart just has a certain 'feel' to them. And when they deviate from that (like for instance the recent Disturbed Guitar Chart), they can catch us off guard.

    Which in my eyes is a good thing. People have been saying they are getting bored with RBN, and these new charting styles will keep people on their toes for sure.
  • ThisnameislameThisnameislame Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    I haven't bought much on RBN (yet) but I can't help but noticing the drums on the Steve Vai songs have pretty bad OD and fill placement. I don't even think there's a fill after the last OD phrase on For the Love of God, and The Attitude song has OD in illogical places (on crazy fills) and seems like it doesn't have nearly enough OD or fills. Were testers so excited for Vai that they only cared about the notes themselves and forgot about OD or something?
  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited March 2010
    Thisnameislame;3544243 said:
    I haven't bought much on RBN (yet) but I can't help but noticing the drums on the Steve Vai songs have pretty bad OD and fill placement. I don't even think there's a fill after the last OD phrase on For the Love of God, and The Attitude song has OD in illogical places (on crazy fills) and seems like it doesn't have nearly enough OD or fills. Were testers so excited for Vai that they only cared about the notes themselves and forgot about OD or something?
    There is no requirement on where or what kind of patterns OD is placed on. It is up to the author where to put it.

    As far as number of ODs and Fills, they are both reviewed by many people. A lot of the testers check to see that there is enough OD to G* the songs (which isn't actually a requirement but a best practice). Also there are quite a few people who focus on fill placement (I know I always play through on autoplay with full OD to make sure there are enough Fills).
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