The state of (some) things to come?

aspiringaspiring Rising Star
edited March 2010 in The Rock Band Network
We all know RBN is a great idea in theory. It potentially means songs added everyday and a way to completely bolster RB's song lineup. However, some of these charts are really pathetic. I requested, begged for Stick Stickly, and now i have seen the video, Please HMX, get rid of whoever charted the song, and make sure they never chart a song again, or actually learn how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qs47J2fsaE

I went from watching Lady In A Blue Dress, which was a fantastic chart, to this mess. Why is there so many of the double notes missing? Its not like it would make the song super hard. Its intro is not much different to Downfall Of Us All. So why the screw up? How did this chart pass authoring? If this is a sign to come of certain charts i am worried.
Charts like this should not be allowed to pass. HMX should not allow every person to vote for it to pass certification, rather they should use it as a guidline. Maybe make it so people such as David Shek have some sort of say. Isnt he a community playtester? Should count for something. And he can actually play drums.

For comparison, this chart is sex. Such an amazing job done. Give these people more to chart i say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u1oQGMPxac

Comments

  • GeneralGilliamGeneralGilliam Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Well, for Sticky Stickly, it's a good chart, theres just an extreme amount of A/V lag on the video. I'm guessing that threw you off, I'm 99% positive the real chart isn't actually like that.

    Just read the comment in the video first before posting: READ THIS FIRST
    If this is out of sync for you, then it's your problem or Youtube's problem. I have ZERO sync issues using 360p on Youtube and no issues on my computer.
  • aspiringaspiring Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    Nonono. I dont care about the Sync issue its the double bass. Why is it non existent? The intro is very similat to Downfall Of Us All. Yet its charted to one foot only. Why? For example from 6-7 is wrong, 7seconds to 9 is correct, but than why the stupid change from 9 to 11? And repeats, when the beat is obviosly the same as 7 to 9? It does the correct double bass beat, and than only a single bass when its the same beat?

    Watch the video. Forget the sync and just listen to the song. And you can see the bass drum beat is completely stupid.

    Sorry but for comparison, listen to this drum cover. Just listen to the bass. You can see the parts they charted correctly, and the the few seconds of constant single bass in which is completely stuffed in the intro:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm7IXV154rE&feature=related
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited March 2010
    "Stick Stickly" is one of my favorite charts actually
  • aspiringaspiring Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    Not that i have played but Lady In A Blue dress chart looks amazing. The stuff up IMO kills this chart. Maybe its just because i want this song so bad. I dont know
  • GeneralGilliamGeneralGilliam Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    I'm guessing your new to the RBN. *ALL* songs must have single bass, *NO* double bass. The RB kit only comes with one bass pedal, if drums were charted with double bass, it would be physically impossible for a lot of people to pass it. Harmonix has always done this, all Rock Band songs, DLC, and RBN songs have single bass. It's going to stay this way until Rock Band 3 or until they make a patch that adds an Expert+ difficulty.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited March 2010
    One of the testing requirements for the songs in RBN is that if it can't be hit on a stock RB drum kit then it can't pass.

    So you'll never see 'expert +' style charts for example.
  • cherokeesamcherokeesam Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    As stated above, RB has *never* charted double bass, because it doesn't exist on RB drums. You knew that already, though.
    aspiring;3551707 said:

    Charts like this should not be allowed to pass. HMX should not allow every person to vote for it to pass certification, rather they should use it as a guidline. Maybe make it so people such as David Shek have some sort of say. Isnt he a community playtester? Should count for something. And he can actually play drums.
    Peer review is peer review. Everybody who reviews these songs is an adult and is capable of making an informed and objective decision about songs and charts. Including Davidshek, who *is* one of the playtesters. The playtesters take their jobs seriously, they do their jobs well, and the authors take their jobs seriously and do their jobs well, and the authors take the constructive criticism seriously and adjust charts accordingly.

    You're one man complaining about what you perceive as a shoddy chart, versus the majority of the playtesting community who says otherwise. I'll take their opinion over yours.
  • Lady SiaraLady Siara Metal Maiden
    edited March 2010
    The chart's fine other than the double bass hits, but even then, that's up to interpretation. I don't think someone who uses double bass is going to solely use their one foot to play that part, so in that sense, it's accurate.

    Could they have charted it? Sure, but it's fine the way it is, too. Songs with double bass are largely up to interpretation. Look at Laid to Rest's drum chart vs. Waking the Demon's.

    Also, the way they have peer review set up now is just fine, as Harmonix themselves has to look at the songs. Lastly, there's no way Davidshek could possibly look at every song to check for quality, it would take ages.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    Perhaps the OP should join the RBN community if possible. That way instead of sitting back and complaining about those who are volunteering their time...they could instead join them and offer their opinions alongside the rest.
  • SpuddSpudd Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    We all know RBN is a great idea in theory. It potentially means songs added everyday and a way to completely bolster RB's song lineup. However, some of these charts are really pathetic. I requested, begged for Stick Stickly, and now i have seen the video, Please HMX, get rid of whoever charted the song, and make sure they never chart a song again, or actually learn how:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qs47J2fsaE
    Please tell me you do this dance too, you'd be the funniest guy in the room at parties if you did. (oh god, please let it be true)
  • cherokeesamcherokeesam Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    T-Hybrid;3551848 said:
    Perhaps the OP should join the RBN community if possible. That way instead of sitting back and complaining about those who are volunteering their time...they could instead join them and offer their opinions alongside the rest.
    *psst: he's in Australia. ;)
    And clearly, HMX hates Australia. (That's what Australians on this forum say, anyho)
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    cherokeesam;3551854 said:
    *psst: he's in Australia. ;)
    And clearly, HMX hates Australia. (That's what Australians on this forum say, anyho)
    Well, that's why I said "if possible". I don't always have my "Who's from where" sheet handy. ;)

    And yeah, I should check "location" in the poster info...but I gave up following that when somebody's said "Right behind me" and a soiled myself in terror!
  • kiggidykevkiggidykev Thinks about pandas
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    Please HMX, get rid of whoever charted the song, and make sure they never chart a song again, or actually learn how
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    I went from watching Lady In A Blue Dress, which was a fantastic chart, to this mess.
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    For comparison, this chart is sex. Such an amazing job done. Give these people more to chart i say:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u1oQGMPxac
    I'm going to take a longshot here and guess you didn't read that both songs are from the same group.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    Charts like this should not be allowed to pass. HMX should not allow every person to vote for it to pass certification, rather they should use it as a guidline. Maybe make it so people such as David Shek have some sort of say. Isnt he a community playtester? Should count for something. And he can actually play drums.
    While I appreciate your impression of my importance around here, I don't have nearly enough time in my days to playtest EVERY chart that comes through the Creators site. :)

    And even if I did, I would have approved this one, just like the at-least-8 other peer reviewers and who-knows how many playtesters who approved it before it went into the store. I think the amount of kick that was left in is fine, considering how this one would actually be played with double pedals/kicks. Sure, there's a bunch left out, but you need to remember that even Expert drum charts need to be authored with the intent of being played with *1* pedal. Could more have been added in and still be playable with 1 pedal? I suppose, but it still wouldn't have made the chart OMGAMAZING-ly more fun.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    kiggidykev;3551959 said:
    I'm going to take a longshot here and guess you didn't read that both songs are from the same group.
    /thread
  • GurnKillerGurnKiller Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    kiggidykev;3551959 said:
    I'm going to take a longshot here and guess you didn't read that both songs are from the same group.
    And not just the same authoring group, but the same person... ME!

    Sorry if you don't like the way the part is charted.

    Authoring guidelines state that double bass is not allowed as everything needs to be able to be played on a stock kit, as others have mentioned. And in continuous 16th patterns, you're generally supposed to chart just the right foot (for the most part). Regarding the two 16th kicks - yes, the drummer likely plays it with two feet. However, what makes RBN so great is the flexibility in charting - and many other songs charted by HMX have played in a similar way.

    And yes, it passed playtest, and peer review - with flying colors I may add. In fact, I don't think anyone ever mentioned anything about the drum chart.

    I'm sorry you feel this way about the chart, but it meets authoring guidelines and is as accurate as it can be with remaining in those guidelines.
    aspiring;3551707 said:
    Maybe make it so people such as David Shek have some sort of say. Isnt he a community playtester? Should count for something. And he can actually play drums.
    And as an fyi, I also play drums in real life (not to discredit David... much love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhHKU_N3AQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8QRvXn_rmU
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    You're not allowed to defend yourself! Take the pain and like it!
  • GurnKillerGurnKiller Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    Santa Claustrophobia;3552299 said:
    You're not allowed to defend yourself! Take the pain and like it!
    Masochism is sooooo last decade!
  • aspiringaspiring Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    GurnKiller;3552096 said:
    And not just the same authoring group, but the same person... ME!

    Sorry if you don't like the way the part is charted.

    Authoring guidelines state that double bass is not allowed as everything needs to be able to be played on a stock kit, as others have mentioned. And in continuous 16th patterns, you're generally supposed to chart just the right foot (for the most part). Regarding the two 16th kicks - yes, the drummer likely plays it with two feet. However, what makes RBN so great is the flexibility in charting - and many other songs charted by HMX have played in a similar way.

    And yes, it passed playtest, and peer review - with flying colors I may add. In fact, I don't think anyone ever mentioned anything about the drum chart.
    But a big feature of Xbox Live is there peer review system on players, and look how that works out :p On the playable on a single pedal, its a pretty similar beat to Downfall Of Us All and HMX charted that fine. I just feel this could of been similar. And those saying it must be playable with only one stock pedal should by the mayhem pack. This would of been only 4 stars compared to those songs with both pedals charted vs only one on a song from that pack.
    I'm sorry you feel this way about the chart, but it meets authoring guidelines and is as accurate as it can be with remaining in those guidelines.



    And as an fyi, I also play drums in real life (not to discredit David... much love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhHKU_N3AQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8QRvXn_rmU

    I am not saying YOU cant drum. Im saying that when you leave things to the general public, it does not always equal the best. Just look at the peer system in placve to rate gamers. Thats why i suggested someone like Shek. Not just him, but a group of people like him dedicated to making sure the charts are as good as possible.

    Anyway if you charted the Sensis Fail song props to you. Its a fantastic chart.
    davidshek;3551977 said:


    And even if I did, I would have approved this one, just like the at-least-8 other peer reviewers and who-knows how many playtesters who approved it before it went into the store. I think the amount of kick that was left in is fine, considering how this one would actually be played with double pedals/kicks. Sure, there's a bunch left out, but you need to remember that even Expert drum charts need to be authored with the intent of being played with *1* pedal. Could more have been added in and still be playable with 1 pedal? I suppose, but it still wouldn't have made the chart OMGAMAZING-ly more fun.
    Yes i know HMX want it to be able to be played with one pedal, but the fact they release charts like those released in the mayhem pack suggest that its possible to chart hard song. And yeah IMO it would of made the chart more amazing IMO :p
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3553236 said:
    The sound of digging a deeper hole, for fap.
    *shakes head*
    *facepalm*
    *headdesk*
    *gives up on internets*
  • whypick1whypick1 Headliner
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3553236 said:
    I am not saying YOU cant drum. Im saying that when you leave things to the general public, it does not always equal the best. Just look at the peer system in placve to rate gamers. Thats why i suggested someone like Shek. Not just him, but a group of people like him dedicated to making sure the charts are as good as possible.
    How do you know 8 people exactly like Shek didn't approve this song?

    Plus, I believe his "Community Playtester" title came from some consulting he did when RB2 was being developed, and nothing related to RBN at all (although david would be the one to say if that's true).
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited March 2010
    whypick1;3553478 said:
    How do you know 8 people exactly like Shek didn't approve this song?

    Plus, I believe his "Community Playtester" title came from some consulting he did when RB2 was being developed, and nothing related to RBN at all (although david would be the one to say if that's true).
    Nah, I playtest "the community". Ya know, get people riled up, take surveys, conduct social experiments, that sorta thing. Don't hate, it's a living ;)

    /wait...there are 8 people out there exactly like me?? That's a scary thought...
  • GurnKillerGurnKiller Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3553236 said:
    On the playable on a single pedal, its a pretty similar beat to Downfall Of Us All and HMX charted that fine. I just feel this could of been similar.
    I may be crazy, but can you point me to exactly where the charting differs?

    In the parts that are similar (see the second half of measure 7 on this chart: http://rockband.scorehero.com/images/notecharts/contrib/ajanata/drums/thedownfallofusall_drums_expert_blank.png), it was authored exactly the same.

    In this song, parts of the beat are different. I'm not going to be authoring 3 16th kicks in a row, as that violates guidelines. That part of the beat is completely different from "The Downfall of Us All"... TDOUA doesn't have 3 16th kicks in a row.

    Am I crazy? Am I missing something?
  • smeeguelsmeeguel Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Gurn, you're fired for charting "Stick Stickly" like that.

    But re-hired for your wonderful job on "Lady in a Blue Dress." Keep up the good work.
  • kiggidykevkiggidykev Thinks about pandas
    edited March 2010
    smeeguel;3553655 said:
    Gurn, you're fired for charting "Stick Stickly" like that.

    But re-hired for your wonderful job on "Lady in a Blue Dress." Keep up the good work.
    Let it never again be said that users don't have any say in the Rock Band Network process
  • KnucklesdudeKnucklesdude Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    I approved Stick Stickly because the triple 16th notes (double bass) were charted with only the bass hits from the right foot, which is a norm with double bass in Rock Band, and detailed in the authoring standards.

    And the beat is different from Downfall of Us All, as Mr. Killer of Gurns pointed out.
  • aspiringaspiring Rising Star
    edited March 2010
    This is my point. When i say its like DFOUA, i mean in the sense that in the intro it is double kicks charted. Now, you say you chart the right foot, yet we know its a triplet bass hit. Yet you sometimes chart the double, but othertimes not. Why is my question. Take that video and watch from 13-14 seconds. This is what i mean. They are triple bass hits as you say. You also say you chart the right foot. So why no double hits? Your not charting the right foot completely, as your missing notes out. Its hard to explain without a tab chart. But in the section i mention, you should be ablke to see what i mean.
  • aggiesrul8aggiesrul8 Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    aspiring;3554939 said:
    Why is my question.
    That's what everyone here is trying to figure out... ??? ;)
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