I Don't Mean to Be Ignorant...

ultimateshadowxultimateshadowx Unsigned
edited March 2010 in The Rock Band Network
But why can't all the RBN Songs come to the PS3? There are tons of great songs I would love, and it doesn't seem fair that we can't get them all, especially since they are released on RBN, then they won't be released by Harmonix...

Comments

  • QuazifujiQuazifuji Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    The PS3 doesn't support the full RBN system with all of the songs (so it can't just add songs to the store automatically) because RBN is built around XNA and required a lot of support from Microsoft to create, and Sony has not given Harmonix a comparable level of support (actually, they'd need to give more, since they don't have XNA to start from) to make the system work on the PS3 too.

    The reason Harmonix can't port all of the songs over anyway without the whole infrastructure is that without an XNA-like system handling the uploading and distribution of songs automatically, transferring a song over to the Playstation can be quite complicated. I don't know the details, but some things that might be involved are getting contracts from bands and authors to allow the songs to be sold on the PS3, getting the songs approved by Sony, and testing it on the PS3 to make sure there aren't any weird bugs. This process is time consuming enough that it's simply not feasible for Harmonix to go through it for every single song that gets released to RBN.
  • saosao Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    This is why I purposely bought an Xbox a few days after the Network launched. I'm not taking my chances with PS3. I also don't think my favorite songs released will all make it over.

    Most of the songs I get on the RBN are metal and stuff that's not exactly party friendly so I won't have to worry about much. I'll use my PS3 for all the other download content.
  • ultimateshadowxultimateshadowx Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    Thanks everyone. That explains a lot. I may look into a cheap copy of the game and some cheap instruments to play those songs on my 360...
  • FlawlessFlawless First Poster
    edited March 2010
    I wouldn't waste your money, but that's your choice.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    Quazifuji;3571658 said:
    The PS3 doesn't support the full RBN system with all of the songs (so it can't just add songs to the store automatically) because RBN is built around XNA and required a lot of support from Microsoft to create, and Sony has not given Harmonix a comparable level of support (actually, they'd need to give more, since they don't have XNA to start from) to make the system work on the PS3 too.

    The reason Harmonix can't port all of the songs over anyway without the whole infrastructure is that without an XNA-like system handling the uploading and distribution of songs automatically, transferring a song over to the Playstation can be quite complicated. I don't know the details, but some things that might be involved are getting contracts from bands and authors to allow the songs to be sold on the PS3, getting the songs approved by Sony, and testing it on the PS3 to make sure there aren't any weird bugs. This process is time consuming enough that it's simply not feasible for Harmonix to go through it for every single song that gets released to RBN.
    The reason is that HMX made RBN using tools that are exclusive to the 360 vs tool that are universal. Blaming sony for something that HMX created is being a slightly dishonest.

    more here

    http://www.rockband.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3571942&postcount=8
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3571944 said:
    The reason is that HMX made RBN using tools that are exclusive to the 360 vs tool that are universal. Blaming sony for something that HMX created is being a slightly dishonest.

    more here

    http://www.rockband.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3571942&postcount=8
    Already responded to your post over there, but long story short is, don't go shooting off your mouth without checking to see where your ammo is coming from.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    LoopyChew;3571968 said:
    Already responded to your post over there, but long story short is, don't go shooting off your mouth without checking to see where your ammo is coming from.


    The short version is this:

    XNA is exclusive to the 360, it will never come to the PS3, or the Wii.

    HMX CHOOSE to use something EXCLUSIVE to the 360.

    HMX made the choice to use exclusive 360 tools, not sony. The blame lies with the developer.
  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    Let's see how many songs Harmonix can actually bring over before we start complaining about it. It could be 25% of the songs, 75% of the songs, or 99.9% of the songs but we won't know until it happens. Harmonix has already said that Sony's DLC policies might be the limiting factor, but people love making Harmonix out to be the bad guy.
  • alexrdaviesalexrdavies Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    michal, HMX 'chose' to use the only tool that exists. Is it exclusive to the 360? Yes. Was there anything they could do about it? No.

    HMX chose to release the RBN on 360 rather than not at all.
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3572007 said:
    The short version is this:

    XNA is exclusive to the 360, it will never come to the PS3, or the Wii.

    HMX CHOOSE to use something EXCLUSIVE to the 360.

    HMX made the choice to use exclusive 360 tools, not sony. The blame lies with the developer.
    As I pointed out in the other thread (maybe we should keep this discussion to the other thread), there's nothing stating that RBN is exclusive to XNA--it's just the only end-user development platform of its kind at the moment. Should Sony/Nintendo come up with equivalents, there's no reason RBN couldn't be ported to those.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    LoopyChew;3572036 said:
    As I pointed out in the other thread (maybe we should keep this discussion to the other thread), there's nothing stating that RBN is exclusive to XNA--it's just the only end-user development platform of its kind at the moment. Should Sony/Nintendo come up with equivalents, there's no reason RBN couldn't be ported to those.
    Except that it would cost a fortune. It's not going to happen, people should just forget it. I think any teasing that RBN song creation might exist on the PS3 (let alone the little wii) was just to quiet the masses.

    The song files should be able to be transferred over to ps3 and wii easily enough--HMX would have to be crazy or stupid to have different song file formats for the different consoles. And I don't think they are either one.

    So fellow PS3 users, just be happy that any songs make it over at all.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    ethicalpaul;3572077 said:


    So fellow PS3 users, just be happy that any songs make it over at all.
    Why? Did we not purchase a product that was sold as being equivalant to the 360 when it was purchased? Is this the kind of treatment cosumters that choose the PS3 version from now should expect: be happy you get anything. If thats the case, then HMX might not get any more of my money.

    Heck, HMX isn't even clear in their own marketing that RBN is 360 exclusive
    The Rock Band Network Store is Live!
    Tracks Now Available

    There are more than 100 songs available for purchase in the Rock Band Network Music Store from artists including The Shins, The Hold Steady, The Main Drag, Bang Camaro, Lacuna Coil, Stroke 9, and Steve Vai, with additional tracks already on the way from Flight of the Conchords, The Smashing Pumpkins, The Gaslight Anthem and many more coming soon.

    Thats from the home page of Rockband.com
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    #1: No, you did not purchase a product that was sold as being equivalent to a 360. What planet are you on?

    #2: Where does your second quote even mention any console? You should quote what is basically the only word anyone has ever received on the topic, which said something like "standout tracks will be available on other consoles sometime after a 30 day xbox exclusivity"
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited March 2010
    ethicalpaul;3572077 said:
    Except that it would cost a fortune. It's not going to happen, people should just forget it. I think any teasing that RBN song creation might exist on the PS3 (let alone the little wii) was just to quiet the masses.

    The song files should be able to be transferred over to ps3 and wii easily enough--HMX would have to be crazy or stupid to have different song file formats for the different consoles. And I don't think they are either one.

    So fellow PS3 users, just be happy that any songs make it over at all.
    I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it'd be as expensive as you think. The bulk of the system has already been developed; the only part they'd have to worry about programming-wise is the code regarding audition mode--how the PS3/Wii are configured to receive the Magma file (which would've been documented and specc'd by Sony/Nintendo and given to Harmonix as part of the whole "framework" concept) and read the file itself (which at most would require Magma to make a couple tweaks here and there, maybe at the compilation level if the metadata itself needs to be tweaked for the PS3/Wii format or perhaps at the submission level to streamline file-sharing for playtesting amongst all the different platforms).

    Work would definitely have to be done, but it'd be more along the lines of the administration/licensing level than the technical dirty work.
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    I disagree. The technical work is significant. And you are only thinking of magma.

    But there is the entire interface between XNA and the creators site that would have to be duplicated, all for a system that today only exists in our imaginations. It will never appear, stop worrying about it.
  • kurathkurath Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    If you're complaining that a blurb doesn't encompass the entirety of a product, you must get upset a lot. They have expressly stated along the way its XBOX360 only, and likewise, if you follow the link, it states the same.

    And for what its worth, no one cares if HMX isn't getting anymore of your money. Regardless of your inflated opinion of how important you are, its not beneficial to a company to have someone follow them around and badmouth them with made-up information all the time. You're upset RBN isn't available for PS3, yea, maybe you're a super huge Sony fanboy so you can't blame them, but it doesn't matter.

    Certainly, yes, HMX could've found a way to make RBN available for everyone assuming they had infinite resources and development power. But they don't. By your logic, every single developer who has made a cross-system game is at fault for not building their own servers and online system to allow cross-system play. That's not how it works, companies use the tools they have available - in this case, XNA. Considering the hoops HMX would have to jump through to make it available on all platforms, it really shouldn't surprise anyone that the one system to get it is the one system with inbuilt development tools and a content sharing system. So no, maybe it isn't really Sony's fault that RBN is not available for it, its not like they're rejecting it, but they didn't put in what was necessary to make it work.
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited March 2010
    ethicalpaul;3572115 said:
    I disagree. The technical work is significant. And you are only thinking of magma.

    But there is the entire interface between XNA and the creators site that would have to be duplicated, all for a system that today only exists in our imaginations. It will never appear, stop worrying about it.
    Oh, the site.

    Yyyyyyyyeah, okay, I concede you've got a point there.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3572105 said:
    Heck, HMX isn't even clear in their own marketing that RBN is 360 exclusive

    *snip*

    Thats from the home page of Rockband.com
    And this is from the official press release.
    Songs will debut exclusively on Xbox 360 for 30 days. A selection of standout tracks will then be made available on the PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system from Sony Computer Entertainment America and the Wii™ home videogame console from Nintendo.
    HMX chose to use the XNA because it was the only available way to make the RBN happen within a reasonable time frame. If they would've had to develope their own in house means of creating content for all 3 consoles we likely would have no RBN.

    But that seems to be the philosophy of some whiners around here. "If I can't have it...nobody should."
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Opening Act
    edited March 2010
    Yyyyyyyyeah, okay, I concede you've got a point there.
    I didn't always agree with the point I just made :) It took awhile to formulate. It took working with the RBN authoring tools for months and thinking a lot about it for me to come to the opinion that the creation stuff could never appear on any other platform for a long long time, probably never.

    It doesn't really reduce how awesome RBN is, once you get used to it.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited March 2010
    The problem with getting XNA style tools available for the PS3 and Wii is that aside from "strongly encouraging" the companies to put it out there...there's not much else HMX can do to make it happen.

    The PS3 and Wii owners should be putting pressure on Nintendo and Sony to provide the kind of indie friendly developer enviroment that the 360 has in the XNA.

    Because XNA isn't some RBN tool...it's an existing platform for the developement and release of indie games on the 360. Sony/Nintendo are not going to invest in what it would take to get RBN off the ground on their consoles if it's only going to be for DLC for ONE game.
  • BallisticJunkfoodBallisticJunkfood Headliner
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3572007 said:
    The short version is this:

    XNA is exclusive to the 360, it will never come to the PS3, or the Wii.

    HMX CHOOSE to use something EXCLUSIVE to the 360.

    HMX made the choice to use exclusive 360 tools, not sony. The blame lies with the developer.
    Yes, Harmonix chose to use XNA to develop RBN. Was it out of spite for Sony or some kind of payoff from Microsoft? Hell no. It's because it was the only available tool for creating something like RBN. XNA covers the whole RBN process from authoring and submitting content to playtesting to peer review and even financial distribution. It was perfect for building RBN on. The reason RBN doesn't exist on PS3 is because Sony has no such system in place that is the equivalent of XNA and therefore cannot support RBN. Don't go blaming Harmonix saying "They could have made it for PS3 if they wanted to" because the fact of the matter is they couldn't.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    ethicalpaul;3572108 said:
    #1: No, you did not purchase a product that was sold as being equivalent to a 360. What planet are you on?

    #2: Where does your second quote even mention any console? You should quote what is basically the only word anyone has ever received on the topic, which said something like "standout tracks will be available on other consoles sometime after a 30 day xbox exclusivity"

    1) Really the ps3 and 360 version weren't/arent being sold as equivlants? the real question is what plant your on. Until RNB what MAJOR difference was there in terms of content?

    2) Thats my point, there is no mention of ANY console. It should say: ~
    RBN exclusive to the 360. Instead HMX is using fuzzy marketing talk to make it seem like everyone is getting tons of new content when they are not.
  • vedisvedis Road Warrior
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3572143 said:
    1) Really the ps3 and 360 version weren't/arent being sold as equivlants? the real question is what plant your on. Until RNB what MAJOR difference was there in terms of content?

    2) Thats my point, there is no mention of ANY console. It should say: ~
    RBN exclusive to the 360. Instead HMX is using fuzzy marketing talk to make it seem like everyone is getting tons of new content when they are not.
    1) they are same gen consoles, that is the ONLY similarity between them, each has its own ups and downs compared to the other, but they are not the same system, and never will be. if you want your difference in content, its called the XNA, you know that xbox has hundreds more games released through it per year then PS3 will ever see right? cuz PS3 doesnt care about the indie creator.
    and while we are at it, where is my rbn for ps2! oh yeah, you probly think they dont deserve mention :)

    2) they said songs will be ported over, what you should be doing instead of making a stink about rbn as a whole being ported over to a system when it just isnt gonna happen due to SONY, is make a stink to make sure the songs you want get put over. let hmx know you want song X Y and Z so that you can get them hopefuly.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited March 2010
    Guys, you're wasting your breath (so to speak). Stop trying to argue or convince him, he's just going to keep going and going and going, just like he did when he was posting under the "opfreak" account.

    It's a waste of time, don't feed the troll, and so on and so forth.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    ethicalpaul;3572115 said:
    I disagree. The technical work is significant. And you are only thinking of magma.

    But there is the entire interface between XNA and the creators site that would have to be duplicated, all for a system that today only exists in our imaginations. It will never appear, stop worrying about it.

    at one point in time Rockband only existed in someone imignations.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    davidshek;3572147 said:
    Guys, you're wasting your breath (so to speak). Stop trying to argue or convince him, he's just going to keep going and going and going, just like he did when he was posting under the "opfreak" account.

    It's a waste of time, don't feed the troll, and so on and so forth.
    I get it

    People that disagree have issues with HMX = Trolls
    People that agree with HMX = Not trolls.

    Perfect group think conditions.
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited March 2010
    michal1980;3572149 said:
    at one point in time Rockband only existed in someone imignations.
    And by that logic, like Rock Band, the system you're looking for that will bring RBN development to the PS3 and Wii will ALSO come to fruition!

    You can stop complaining now.
  • michal1980michal1980 Unsigned
    edited March 2010
    LoopyChew;3572152 said:
    And by that logic, like Rock Band, the system you're looking for that will bring RBN development to the PS3 and Wii will ALSO come to fruition!
    .

    Yes it could.

    But blaming sony for not having something exclusive to the 360 is a weak sauce excuse.
  • EhfahqEhfahq Headliner
    edited March 2010
    Is it hard to type with your fingers in your ears?
This discussion has been closed.