Why Blaming Sony is Misguided, and XNA is a cop out.

whatevewhateve Unsigned
edited April 2010 in The Rock Band Network
Over and over on the forums the HMX defenders & PS3 bashers, say dont blame HMX, blame sony. MS has XNA ps3 has nothing...

So then

Imagine a different world. A world where Sony has there own version of XNA, and so does the Wii. Call them PsNA, and WiiNA.

So now you have 3 different systems, 3 different consoles, each with their own set of rules, their own quirks, their own language.

Each is open to HMX to create a RBN. So now you have 3 RBN's.

RBN-XNA
RBN-PsNA
RBN-WiiNA

Every band chooses a system and only works with that one, each song then needs to be 'transfrered' to a different system, each system has its 'exclusive' period, etc etc

How would that solve the problem?

each system would be stuck with its own 'version' of songs and no one system would be able to access all the music.

How is this a solution to the problem?

Reality is that a solution to work across all platforms has to come from HMX. Not anyone else. Unless the intent is for one system to be the 'complete' RB system, and the other two systems just after thoughts for HMX to get the same money, but give less support.

Comments

  • RockBandAideRockBandAide Opening Act
    edited April 2010
    So you want Harmonix to solve Sony and Nintendo's software and hardware limitations?
  • ThisnameislameThisnameislame Rising Star
    edited April 2010
    I would think getting a system to work across three different sets of infrastructure would be a hell of a lot easier than creating infrastructure for three consoles from scratch.

    Reaper is Reaper, Magma is Magma, Midi Files are Midi files. The distribution is the only thing that could potentially be different, which is basically the case for HMX DLC.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644490 said:
    each system would be stuck with its own 'version' of songs and no one system would be able to access all the music.
    Clearly you don't understand at all what part XNA plays in the RBN process. It has no involvement whatsoever in the actual creation of the RBN content; that is all done on a PC using Reaper (or whatever DAW you choose to use) and Magma.

    You might want to go do a little homework before you create a post like this, since most of what you said is complete nonsense.
  • k-mack-mac Road Warrior
    edited April 2010
    Ok, but PS and Wii in reality don't have any systems like XNA, so the point is invalid. PS3 will start getting songs soon. HMX has to do whatever they need to to transfer the songs over to the other systems.

    So what you're suggesting is that when a song gets passed, that HMX keeps the song and not release it until they've coded it for both PS3 and the Wii? It all just seems impractical.
  • CONAN9845CONAN9845 Road Warrior
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644490 said:
    Reality is that a solution to work across all platforms has to come from HMX. Not anyone else. Unless the intent is for one system to be the 'complete' RB system, and the other two systems just after thoughts for HMX to get the same money, but give less support.
    So, if there were comparable setups on the other two consoles, the license holders wouldn't have the authors create the DLC for all three why, exactly? Right now, they're doing it to make money from one console's owners. Doing it for the other two at the same time just gets them more money.How is HMX "getting the same money" from PS3 and Wii owners for the RBN, considering they can't spend any money on those songs? You don't think they'd LOVE to give the same support to the PS3 and Wii in order to get more money? That doesn't make any sense.If Sony and Nintendo get something similar, then HMX will do the same for them that they have done for the 360.
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    davidshek;3644508 said:
    Clearly you don't understand at all what part XNA plays in the RBN process. It has no involvement whatsoever in the actual creation of the RBN content; that is all done on a PC using Reaper (or whatever DAW you choose to use) and Magma.

    You might want to go do a little homework before you create a post like this, since most of what you said is complete nonsense.
    how is it nonsense?

    I never said anything about the creation of content.

    In what world do you expect that the PS3/Wii/360 would all have identical 'XNA' systems with the same rules, methods of distrubition, TOS, payments etc, etc etc.

    Might as well have HMX tell sony and Nintendo they have to run the xbox 360 OS.
  • ryanco64ryanco64 Road Warrior
    edited April 2010
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    CONAN9845;3644519 said:
    So, if there were comparable setups on the other two consoles, the license holders wouldn't have the authors create the DLC for all three why, exactly? Right now, they're doing it to make money from one console's owners. Doing it for the other two at the same time just gets them more money.How is HMX "getting the same money" from PS3 and Wii owners for the RBN, considering they can't spend any money on those songs? You don't think they'd LOVE to give the same support to the PS3 and Wii in order to get more money? That doesn't make any sense.If Sony and Nintendo get something similar, then HMX will do the same for them that they have done for the 360.
    The point is, XNA defenders say that 'If only Sony/Nintendo had something like XNA' all problems would be solved.

    Why do they automatically assume that? What makes them think that a song released for RBN-PsXNA would automatically be vailed for use on a 360?

    All 3 'xna' systems would have to be identical in their TOS/licenses etc for that to happen.

    IMHO, expecting all 3 consoles to have identical 'XNA' systems, is like expecthing all 3 consoles to run the same OS.
  • knifes39knifes39 Rising Star
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644523 said:
    how is it nonsense?

    I never said anything about the creation of content.

    In what world do you expect that the PS3/Wii/360 would all have identical 'XNA' systems with the same rules, methods of distrubition, TOS, payments etc, etc etc.

    Might as well have HMX tell sony and Nintendo they have to run the xbox 360 OS.
    Im still not seeing a point to this thread, your bashing HMX for going with a system that is easier to work with?
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    knifes39;3644533 said:
    Im still not seeing a point to this thread, your bashing HMX for going with a system that is easier to work with?
    Partly HMX.

    Mainly its defenders that somehow think if the PS3 & Wii had their own versions of 'XNA' everything would be magically 'OK'
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644527 said:
    IMHO, expecting all 3 consoles to have identical 'XNA' systems, is like expecthing all 3 consoles to run the same OS.
    "IMHO" is still just your "Opinion", and it's seemingly not based on actual facts. You have no clue what you're talking about, and likely couldn't fathom why the XNA system is what makes RBN possible.

    But thanks for wasting our time with your lack of business acumen or software development experience!

    - m
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    Markleford;3644549 said:
    "IMHO" is still just your "Opinion", and it's seemingly not based on actual facts. You have no clue what you're talking about, and likely couldn't fathom why the XNA system is what makes RBN possible.

    But thanks for wasting our time with your lack of business acumen or software development experience!

    - m
    So please enlighten me, and tell me what two consoles have such identical terms/licenese/programing/etc that allows instant sharing of content between the two of them?

    Or are you saying if the PS3 had an XNA system, RBN would be on that system, and 360 and PS3 users would have access to all the songz as soon as they hit ethier system?

    Its just that simple right?

    The only people wasting time here are the simple minds that think that.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann Stormtrooper
    edited April 2010
    DLC files for the different consoles, let's assume, are are all of roughly the same filetype. Harmonix creates them all from the same program on a computer, the same way RBN files are created. So if PS3 and Wii had similar systems to XNA, even if the rules and structures were different, Harmonix could still work with Sony and Nintendo to create a Rock Band Network through which authors could submit content to all 3 consoles at once. Each console would probably have separate review systems, so the songs wouldn't all come out at the same time, but it would still be faster than making Harmonix submit them to Sony and Nintendo themselves for review, as seems to be necessary here. Even if HMX created their own unified, stand-alone RBN system like you suggest, there would still be a giant bottleneck slowdown waiting for the console companies to manually approve each song.

    Bottom line, XNA is a system for peer review of user-created content, and if PS3 and Wii also had peer-review systems for user-created content, it would be much easier to get user-created content onto them.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644551 said:
    Its just that simple right?

    The only people wasting time here are the simple minds that think that.
    I agree entirely: people who think this is a "simple" matter and speak based solely upon their opinion and not on established business practices of the respective platforms are wasting our time.

    - m
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644551 said:
    So please enlighten me, and tell me what two consoles have such identical terms/licenese programing that allows instant sharing of content between the two of them?

    So if the PS3 had an XNA system, RBN would be on that system, and 360 and PS3 users would have access to all the song.

    Its just that simple right?

    The only people wasting time here are the simple minds that think that.
    It wouldn't result in automatic sharing of songs. However, you can peer review the songs on each system for approval so that HMX doesn't have to submit each song they port from the 360 to Sony and Nintendo at their expense rather than effortless and free like with the XNA.
  • vedisvedis Road Warrior
    edited April 2010
    whateve;3644551 said:
    So please enlighten me, and tell me what two consoles have such identical terms/licenese/programing/etc that allows instant sharing of content between the two of them?

    Or are you saying if the PS3 had an XNA system, RBN would be on that system, and 360 and PS3 users would have access to all the songz as soon as they hit ethier system?

    Its just that simple right?

    The only people wasting time here are the simple minds that think that.
    not as easy as just doing that

    if both systems had it in place, 1 of 2 things would have to happen

    1) authors would have to have songs in BOTH systems, and pay for BOTH subscriptions to get them in RBN on either system
    2) any song authored on 1 system, would have to be held in exlusivity(as it is now) until such a time as there is an effective way to port the song over to the other system and handle all its business end stuff


    XNA is awesome with how things are set up, if you arent experiencing it, then you really have NO CLUE what you are talking about
    PS3 DOES NOT have anything even close to what XNA is in place
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    Markleford;3644565 said:
    I agree entirely: people who think this is a "simple" matter and speak based solely upon their opinion and not on established business practices or the respective platforms are wasting our time.

    - m
    Based on that, do you attack each poster that goes into PS3 threads and says 'its sony's fault, they dont have xna' as harshly as you do me?

    And tell them they are wasting people's time? because its not that simple?

    Somehow I doubt it.
  • whatevewhateve Unsigned
    edited April 2010
    vedis;3644570 said:
    not as easy as just doing that

    if both systems had it in place, 1 of 2 things would have to happen

    1) authors would have to have songs in BOTH systems, and pay for BOTH subscriptions to get them in RBN on either system
    2) any song authored on 1 system, would have to be held in exlusivity(as it is now) until such a time as there is an effective way to port the song over to the other system and handle all its business end stuff


    XNA is awesome with how things are set up, if you arent experiencing it, then you really have NO CLUE what you are talking about
    PS3 DOES NOT have anything even close to what XNA is in place
    So why do people keep posting that [if only ps3 had 'xna'] and never get attacked.

    Why is the assumption that if the ps3 system had 'xna' things would magically work?

    When the answer is they wouldn't?

    So the conclusion is that ifHMX wanted a unified product across different platforms, then the solution should come from HMX rather then Sony.
  • edited April 2010
    I am going to close this, because it is full of misinformation and misguided flame bait.
This discussion has been closed.