They Didn't Use My Vocals Control Suggestion... Again!

YRDaddyYRDaddy Road Warrior
edited June 2010 in Rock Band
I tried to plead my case after The Beatles came out:

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163519&highlight=Harmonies+Rock+Band

But here we are again with a terrible vocal control scheme on Green Day Rock Band for the Harmony vocals. I repeat, having to pause the game to "lower original vocals" is terrible! It completely breaks up the flow of the game while playing a set list or in a group of friends. It also does not allow the freedom of creating a comfortable mix of mic volume and game vocals which so many of our regular players ask for. It has been halfway fixed with the added option of the game mic volume changed on the fly with the "A" button (Xbox 360). I would really like to see the game vocal adjustment mapped to a button also (there are still several left to choose from), to be adjusted on the fly rather than have to pause the game to fix it.

As I said in my original complaint when the Beatles was released... Either keep the vocal and mic adjustments with the same methods as RB1 & RB2 or omite harmonies altogether for RB3 if for some reason it is physicaly impossible (although, I can't see why it couldn't be done). Thanks :D

Comments

  • jeccanekojeccaneko Headliner
    edited June 2010
    I have only played the demo, but since there was no button press option to mess with the original vocals, I just assumed that you couldn't change it at all. Interesting that it's there on the pause menu!

    I agree that it should be with button presses, but I think they don't because they like making the buttons control harmony volumes for whatever reason.
  • EVIL DAVEEVIL DAVE Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Pausing the game to adjust a setting at the beginning of a song is THAT much of a trouble for you? I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your point of view here. Asking them to remove harmonies because they changed where the "Lower Original Vocals" option is... That's just ridiculous.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited June 2010
    The "lower original vocals" is a feature of HMX band-centric titles because they don't want you to be able to turn of the vocals completely for the band avatars on stage. They said that back when The Beatles first came out.

    As somebody who plays lefty drums and righty everything else I had to get used to constantly pausing and resetting my controls when switching drums with other people or first signing in or out of drums.
  • BallisticJunkfoodBallisticJunkfood Headliner
    edited June 2010
    EVIL DAVE;3747893 said:
    Pausing the game to adjust a setting at the beginning of a song is THAT much of a trouble for you? I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your point of view here. Asking them to remove harmonies because they changed where the "Lower Original Vocals" option is... That's just ridiculous.
    This.

    I can understand that you want it to be more convenient, but it seems like you're overreacting a lot to this little problem.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited June 2010
    BallisticJunkfood;3747900 said:
    I can understand that you want it to be more convenient, but it seems like you're overreacting a lot to this little problem.
    Welcome to the Rock Band forums, where every issue is the issue. ;)
  • LindeusLindeus Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Let me just go ahead and say The Beatles was a very special case. Because something had to be done in The Beatles Rock Band don't assume it has to be done in the other titles. With The Beatles, it was essentially "Yeah you can make a game, but you don't alter the damn music or we'll murder you. That music goes in as is. Take your silly drum fills and whammy bar stuff out. This music will not bend to your will. Don't even think about turning off the vocals either."

    They could have done anything they wanted with Green Day, including completely muting vocals.

    I will say though it's irritating sometimes when a harmony is the same note in different octaves, and both arrows snap to the same track.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann Stormtrooper
    edited June 2010
    I definitely understand how it's annoying to have to pause to adjust vocal options, since pausing means you can't hear the results of your adjustments in real-time. Maybe they should add some kind of audio preview on the pause screen (only when you go into the vocal volume options screen, of course).

    Also, I don't think it's really a "not enough buttons," since they could make use of one of the unused trigger buttons, and have you press or hold the trigger button to swap between RB2's volume options and TBRB's multi-mic sensitivity options.
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    I've never paused to lower the vocals. I do it on the main menu. Doesn't break up game play. I can't help but think they put the option in the pause menu to discourage people from doing it.
  • mayhem117mayhem117 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    Why not export it and play the songs in RB2?
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited June 2010
    Lindeus;3747924 said:
    They could have done anything they wanted with Green Day, including completely muting vocals.
    Unless Green Day said they couldn't...
  • EhfahqEhfahq Headliner
    edited June 2010
    T-Hybrid;3748022 said:
    Unless Green Day said they couldn't...
    Pretty much. But atleast you can just export into RB2 and have all the vocal mixing options the OP wants.

    I still dont get why pausing the game ruins the flow.
  • YRDaddyYRDaddy Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    Lindeus;3747924 said:
    Let me just go ahead and say The Beatles was a very special case. Because something had to be done in The Beatles Rock Band don't assume it has to be done in the other titles. With The Beatles, it was essentially "Yeah you can make a game, but you don't alter the damn music or we'll murder you. That music goes in as is. Take your silly drum fills and whammy bar stuff out. This music will not bend to your will. Don't even think about turning off the vocals either."

    They could have done anything they wanted with Green Day, including completely muting vocals.
    This was my assumption as well.
    LuigiHann;3747944 said:

    Also, I don't think it's really a "not enough buttons," since they could make use of one of the unused trigger buttons, and have you press or hold the trigger button to swap between RB2's volume options and TBRB's multi-mic sensitivity options.
    That was my thought too. Plenty of buttons to still use for the adjustment.
    mayhem117;3747976 said:
    Why not export it and play the songs in RB2?
    This has been done, but I am more concerned with franchises future with RB3.
    Ehfahq;3748042 said:

    I still dont get why pausing the game ruins the flow.
    Try hosting Rock Band Nights in a bar 3-4 nights a week while trying to squeeze in as many performances as humanly possible in a small 3 hr window. Pausing the game between each song even for a few seconds adds time and disrupts the flow of the evening. :mad:

    There are so many people out there who will sing on Rock Band rather than karaoke at our events because of the "crutch" of being able to mix in the real vocals at different sound volumes until they are fully comfortable singing on their own. This is 1 of the draws that RB has in capturing new game purchases from the casual audience and I don't want to see them lose that advantage.

    See where I'm coming from now?
  • KaradinnKaradinn Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Lindeus;3747924 said:
    Let me just go ahead and say The Beatles was a very special case.

    ...snip...

    They could have done anything they wanted with Green Day, including completely muting vocals.
    You lost me when you said this. As others in the thread have noted, this is a very minor issue with a game that we'll all probably play for a couple of weeks, export, and play on the main platform from here on out.

    I am not the biggest fan of Green Day, casual at best, but I think it's downright ridiculous when people assume that just because they personally don't love the band, the game can be slapped together in a haphazard manner and any experimentation can be done because Green Day is less important than the Beatles. Not only is that attitude disrespectful to the band and their property, but it doesn't make good business sense for Harmonix.

    Landing major bands and getting their music into these games requires a strong working relationship between Harmonix and the bands. Whether it is simply licensing the music or making a game, the band wants their music and their image treated with respect. If you want to see what happens when that doesn't occur, look at the lawsuits filed against the other guys. I like how Harmonix handled the Beatles and Green Day games and turned them into tributes to two bands who have wide ranging influence across multiple generations.
  • EhfahqEhfahq Headliner
    edited June 2010
    Then I guess its a good thing that you can export for your Rock Band Nights.

    "This is 1 of the draws that RB has in capturing new game purchases from the casual audience and I don't want to see them lose that advantage."

    I think you only need to worry about that on band-centric games. Which is just fine by me. But I understand your frustration now.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    Karadinn;3748122 said:
    I am not the biggest fan of Green Day, casual at best, but I think it's downright ridiculous when people assume that just because they personally don't love the band, the game can be slapped together in a haphazard manner and any experimentation can be done because Green Day is less important than the Beatles. Not only is that attitude disrespectful to the band and their property, but it doesn't make good business sense for Harmonix.
    It's the truth and a reality in every entertainment medium, be it games, books, music, television. Some bands are more important than others. The Beatles are more important than Green Day; they just are and they always will be. That means that most items of enterainment about the Beatles are going to be treated better than those for Green Day, especially when those items are a "first" like the first Beatles game (although not the first game that Beatles music appeared in.)

    Maybe that doesn't seem to make business sense on the surface, but from the very beginning TBRB had to be recognized as a bigger money maker than GDRB. Therefore, it makes perfect business sense for a developer to put more into what is going to be the better producing product. Or maybe it doesn't and in that case it's a good thing I'm not a developer, because it's what I would have done... Had I decided in the first place to actually make GDRB...
  • KaradinnKaradinn Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Ultrace;3748160 said:
    It's the truth and a reality in every entertainment medium, be it games, books, music, television. Some bands are more important than others. The Beatles are more important than Green Day; they just are and they always will be. That means that most items of enterainment about the Beatles are going to be treated better than those for Green Day, especially when those items are a "first" like the first Beatles game (although not the first game that Beatles music appeared in.)
    I think that Green Day probably felt more comfortable with how Harmonix would treat their property after seeing how well received Beatles Rock Band was. It was received well by critics and by audiences. It was a beautiful game and really engendered the spirit of the band and their music. My teenage sister is now a diehard Beatles fan as a result of it.

    If Harmonix goes into any band-centric game with the attitude that it is less important than what they did before, they WILL hurt their business. It is also a reality in books, music, and entertainment that if you don't treat the artists with the respect they deserve, other artists will see that and will decide that they don't want you handling their property. There are great bands still out there I wouldn't mind seeing, and I'm glad that Green Day has a good game that reflects the band well. It makes future projects from those artists more possible.
  • deathmonkeydeathmonkey Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    Ultrace;3748160 said:
    ...maybe it doesn't and in that case it's a good thing I'm not a developer, because it's what I would have done... Had I decided in the first place to actually make GDRB...
    well, then, maybe it's a good thing you aren't a human being...
  • YRDaddyYRDaddy Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    I think we may have gotten off the subject a bit... This isn't about a band being better than another (people can argue that point forever). It's about the game mechanics being changed for better or worst, depending on opinions, with each newer installment. I really think this will be a deturant for some people buying and playing the next installment of Rock Band :(
  • dougdobermandougdoberman Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    YRDaddy;3748116 said:


    See where I'm coming from now?
    But, but, but ... NO!

    LA LA LA LA! Hands over ears! CAN'T HEAR YOU!

    No one wants to see where you're coming from if you have something negative to say about Harmonix or Rock Band! They're sacred! They do NO WRONG! You hear? NO WRONG!

    (The proceeding reply brought to you by the fanbois and apologists who seem to make up most of the forum members here.)
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited June 2010
    YRDaddy;3748116 said:
    Try hosting Rock Band Nights in a bar 3-4 nights a week while trying to squeeze in as many performances as humanly possible in a small 3 hr window. Pausing the game between each song even for a few seconds adds time and disrupts the flow of the evening. :mad:
    So go to options, go to sound, select "Lower original vocals" and VIOLA the setting's saved eternally until you go back and change the setting. You can do that ONCE at the beginning of the night and never have to go back.
  • bigmfbigmf Tiny Hulk Smash!
    edited June 2010
    T-Hybrid;3748484 said:
    ...VIOLA ...
    Bowed string instruments for RB3 CONFIRMED!
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    deathmonkey;3748339 said:
    well, then, maybe it's a good thing you aren't a human being...
    Not a human being because I would choose to treat Green Day a little more shabbily than the Beatles, or to choose to not give them their own game at all? "Whatever," as they say. I've explained my reasons for doing so above. It doesn't make me some cold, unfeeling being to devote different resources or treatment between two groups, one of whom has sold about 15 times as many records as the other and is a household name the world-over. That's business and Harmonix is a business. I've already said that it certainly would have been better had more been put into the game; I was explaining why it's quite feasible that you would get a game for a band like Green Day which would have less features and pizzazz than one for the Beatles.
  • YRDaddyYRDaddy Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    T-Hybrid;3748484 said:
    So go to options, go to sound, select "Lower original vocals" and VIOLA the setting's saved eternally until you go back and change the setting. You can do that ONCE at the beginning of the night and never have to go back.
    YRDaddy;3748116 said:

    There are so many people out there who will sing on Rock Band rather than karaoke at our events because of the "crutch" of being able to mix in the real vocals at different sound volumes until they are fully comfortable singing on their own. This is 1 of the draws that RB has in capturing new game purchases from the casual audience and I don't want to see them lose that advantage.
    You kinda edited out the the reason why that wouldnt work when you quoted me ;)

    Different people like the game vocal/mic mix at different levels. Some people actually start to suck 1/2 way through the song (usually when the realize they didnt know the verses as well as course, lol) and want to turn the game vocals back up mid-song. How disruptive would that be to have to pause the game mid song to fix it? Or even worst... let the singer, who was already a bit weary of getting up on stage, continue to blow the song and never want to get up there again?
  • MistressDMistressD Rising Star
    edited June 2010
    I never understood why you'd want to lower the original vocals in the middle of the song anyway. Wouldn't it be distracting to all of sudden not hear the original when you've gotten used to it? Things like mic volume or the volume of the original, I always do that in the beginning of the song before my part starts, so I really don't mind it in the pause menu, so it's not really that big a deal.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited June 2010
    YRDaddy;3748557 said:
    Different people like the game vocal/mic mix at different levels.
    Oh. Well with a band-title there's only the one option or the other. I doubt that "lower original vocals" is going to carry forward to RB3.

    Also, keep in mind you're talking to a guy who's a lefty drummer, and thus is VERY familiar with having to be "that guy" who has to pause and swap the handedness everytime he takes his turn on drums.
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    YRDaddy;3748116 said:
    This is 1 of the draws that RB has in capturing new game purchases from the casual audience and I don't want to see them lose that advantage.
    I've literally never heard anyone say that adjusting the vocal volume had even a little bit to do with them getting the game. That's like buying Assassin's Creed because it has a pretty pause menu. People get these games because they are fun over all, not because of a small feature you can use when you sing.
  • cutmaclasscutmaclass Rising Star
    edited June 2010
    Pausing the game to adjust a meter breaks the flow? Get real, man.
  • GameRansoMGameRansoM Rising Star
    edited June 2010
    Kariodude;3749068 said:
    I've literally never heard anyone say that adjusting the vocal volume had even a little bit to do with them getting the game. That's like buying Assassin's Creed because it has a pretty pause menu. People get these games because they are fun over all, not because of a small feature you can use when you sing.
    It's a selling point. It's a way to get the casual observer involved in playing the game... then hooked to where they must buy!! :D
    cutmaclass;3749121 said:
    Pausing the game to adjust a meter breaks the flow? Get real, man.
    It doesn't get more real.
    I don't think you're understanding the environment in which this game is played at Rock Band Bar Nights.
    Have you ever been to a karaoke joint? Imagine the singer wanting his mic turned down (because he/she is shy... or whatever) and the KJ having to pause the track to get their levels right.
    I'll take this one step further, because... well, this is Rock Band we're talking about. Not some lame karaoke act.
    Have you ever been to a concert? Imagine the vocalist needing some on-the-fly tweaks to the volumes, and the sound tech having to stop the whole show to do so.
    We play this $#!7 LIVE. That's all I'm saying. Any more real, and we'd have to actually learn to play an instrument! :eek:
  • YRDaddyYRDaddy Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    Thanks for getting my back Gamer... well put. ;)

    After watching the video for RB3, I'm even more worried now because with 4 instruments going at the same time, well now you don't have any buttons on a controller to use for vocal adjustment. The sacrifice for the 4th instrument may have to be a vocal adjustment in a pause menu. But considering the awesome added gameplay feature... I think the complaint I am trying make may be over-ruled... and I might be ok with it :confused:
  • RockBandAtlantaRockBandAtlanta Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    YRDaddy is hoping to sway the developers to make the vocal adjustments possible on the fly for RB3 instead of going the way of GDRB and TBRB.

    I am with YRDaddy on this since it can be done and they'd have to change (break) the functionality from RB2 going into RB3. I mean when I discovered that this was even possible, I thought it was a genius move to allow that to happen on the fly.

    For those saying why not set it up when starting the game or when starting the song is that you never really know if they are set properly until you hear them for a few seconds with the vocalist singing.

    Even if you get it right for one vocalist, another one will step in and have different preferences which you can set while the singing is ongoing when using RB1 and RB2. Sometimes the same vocalist will want to change them because of changes in the songs when doing a set or even within the same song.

    Sadly since I spend all my time in RB2, I didn't even know that you could pause and get access to them in TBRB and GDRB.

    I did buy both of them, but since it did not work the same way I thought it just wasn't available.
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