Rock Band 3 & Cymbals

tom526tom526 Opening Act
edited June 2010 in The Rock Band Network
Ok, we now know that Rock Band 3 will actually map the cymbals separately, but I have 2 questions (that might not have answers yet):

1. Will the cymbals be mapped to the easier skill levels, or just the Pro Mode?? Or does Pro Mode modify Easy & Medium??
2. If you only have 1 or 2 of the 3 cymbals, will they still work?? That is, if you only have the crash, will it just map the crash??

Can't wait for Rock Band 3!!

Comments

  • tom526tom526 Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Mithin, thanks for the quick reply and clearing it up.

    I'm a medium-hard drum player, but I want to be able to play the mapped cymbals.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2010
    Mithin;3756431 said:
    You have the wrong impression of Rock Band Pro Mode. There will be the standard Rock Band 3 game that works just like Rock Band 2 (coloured gems and 4 difficulties). There will also be Rock Band Pro which introduces new notation for all instruments..
    You have the wrong impression of Pro Mode on drums as well. :) The cymbal notes will appear regardless of whether you have Pro turned on for drums or not, we've seen that from the game screenshots already released. The difference is that in Pro mode, you are required to hit the cymbals for those notes. In non-Pro, you are not.
  • MithinMithin Unsigned
    edited June 2010
    Thanks David :) If true, I stand slightly corrected.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    davidshek;3756647 said:
    You have the wrong impression of Pro Mode on drums as well. :) The cymbal notes will appear regardless of whether you have Pro turned on for drums or not, we've seen that from the game screenshots already released. The difference is that in Pro mode, you are required to hit the cymbals for those notes. In non-Pro, you are not.
    I'm pretty sure I've seen videos with the current gem arrangements. i.e., old style gems for cymbal hits.

    I guess we'll find out at E3!™
  • tom526tom526 Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Think we will see cymbal notes in just Expert, or will they be in the all difficulties??
  • GDVPlayerGDVPlayer Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    davidshek;3756647 said:
    You have the wrong impression of Pro Mode on drums as well. :) The cymbal notes will appear regardless of whether you have Pro turned on for drums or not, we've seen that from the game screenshots already released. The difference is that in Pro mode, you are required to hit the cymbals for those notes. In non-Pro, you are not.
    Im pretty certain this is wrong. I guess we'll find out later.
  • sozozososozozoso Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    My question is on Pro-mode will there still be the red/yellow reverse? in such songs as Orange Crush etc.. ? or will it be as it should - yellow hi hat and red snare?

    That reverse is a real irritation for someone like me who uses a true drum set up w/ hi hat / hi hat pedal mod , yellow tom above snare etc..

    To have the option of eliminating this from the game is my biggest wish for RB3.
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    David is right.

    http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/28566/rock-band-3/images/rock-band-3-20100610013434930.html
    Notice: the yellow gems are cymbals. On the left, the keyboard symbol has "PRO" underneath it, while the drums logo does not, meaning pro mode is off for drums.

    That said, the USA Today video showed a cymbal-less kit and a drum track with standard gems. This means that the drum track will always show whichever cymbals are plugged in and require you to use them in pro mode.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2010
    macamatic;3757013 said:
    The USA Today video includes footage of the game with what are clearly cymbals mapped as standard gems. This means that if what you are saying is true, it only applies to cymbals which are plugged in. While there is a screenshot of what seems to be standard gameplay with cymbal notes on yellow, how do we know that pro mode isn't turned on for drums?
    Because the drum icon over on the crowd meter doesn't say "PRO".

    Here:
    http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/28567/rock-band-3/images/rock-band-3-20100610013434930.html

    See how the keyboard icon says "PRO"? The drum icon does not, and yet there are cymbal gems on the highway. One of the interviews posted today said that the game will adapt to whatever cymbals you have plugged in. So if you only have a yellow cymbal, you'll only see cymbal gems for yellow but not for green or blue, and so on and so forth.
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    davidshek;3757033 said:
    Because the drum icon over on the crowd meter doesn't say "PRO".

    Here:
    http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/28567/rock-band-3/images/rock-band-3-20100610013434930.html

    See how the guitar icon says "PRO"? The drum icon does not, and yet there are cymbal gems on the highway.
    Check the edit. I caught that shortly before your post. :)

    Incidentally, I'm 99% sure that keyboards, not guitar, has pro mode on. For one, the guitar just has the standard five frets; further, the keyboard track has the colors indicating the position on the keyboard.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2010
    macamatic;3757038 said:
    Incidentally, I'm 99% sure that keyboards, not guitar, has pro mode on. For one, the guitar just has the standard five frets; further, the keyboard track has the colors indicating the position on the keyboard.
    Right, keyboard. I was typing too fast. :)
  • JoshVanHalen87JoshVanHalen87 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    sozozoso;3756781 said:
    My question is on Pro-mode will there still be the red/yellow reverse? in such songs as Orange Crush etc.. ? or will it be as it should - yellow hi hat and red snare?

    That reverse is a real irritation for someone like me who uses a true drum set up w/ hi hat / hi hat pedal mod , yellow tom above snare etc..

    To have the option of eliminating this from the game is my biggest wish for RB3.

    since the cymbals are now kinda obligatory, im guessing that they´ll chart the fast 16th notes on yellow (just speculating)
  • GDVPlayerGDVPlayer Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    sozozoso;3756781 said:
    My question is on Pro-mode will there still be the red/yellow reverse? in such songs as Orange Crush etc.. ? or will it be as it should - yellow hi hat and red snare?

    That reverse is a real irritation for someone like me who uses a true drum set up w/ hi hat / hi hat pedal mod , yellow tom above snare etc..

    To have the option of eliminating this from the game is my biggest wish for RB3.
    Most likely Pro mode will be exactly the way it's supposed to be.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    JoshVanHalen87;3757129 said:
    since the cymbals are now kinda obligatory, im guessing that they´ll chart the fast 16th notes on yellow (just speculating)
    I think we're going to be required to keep authoring disco beats the same way, especially if the game can flip them back for cymbal kits. We still need to accommodate existing hardware. But it'll likely come up soon and be worth getting an official word about.
  • tom526tom526 Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    So do you guys think there will be new cymbals with RB3, or just continue to sell the Madcatz ones??

    BTW, how are the Madcatz ones?? Good hit detection??
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    tom526;3757907 said:
    BTW, how are the Madcatz ones?? Good hit detection??
    As long as you're not hitting them too fast, they're fine. A good rule of thumb is this: if you can hit it one-handed, it will probably pick it up. Just make sure that you make each hit very pronounced (a good way to do this is to hit it one-handed - are you noticing a pattern?).

    This is my only concern with Pro mode. I don't want to lose points on "The Kill" or "Where'd You Go" (or even "Livin' on a Prayer" if I'm having a bad day) just because MadCatz didn't put good enough sensors in the cymbals. I'd be interested in a reasonably priced upgrade, but I can't justify shelling out the money for any kind of e-kit (even an ION). GoodWoods might be an option (though I've heard less-than-wonderful things about their cymbals) but they're expensive and don't come with any mounting system whatsoever. They're also ugly as sin and won't match the MetalWorkz pads I'll probably be getting in the next few months (unless someone can convince me to get GoodWoods instead).

    My current strategy is to drop down to the pad for fast cymbal rolls, but that's not an option in Pro mode, where I will certainly lose points and possibly not get credit for the note at all. I can't imagine that HMX doesn't have a solution for this, even if it's just new cymbals from MadCatz...especially if they end up flipping hi-hat runs in Pro mode.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    macamatic;3757938 said:
    As long as you're not hitting them too fast, they're fine. A good rule of thumb is this: if you can hit it one-handed, it will probably pick it up. Just make sure that you make each hit very pronounced (a good way to do this is to hit it one-handed - are you noticing a pattern?).

    This is my only concern with Pro mode. I don't want to lose points on "The Kill" or "Where'd You Go" (or even "Livin' on a Prayer" if I'm having a bad day) just because MadCatz didn't put good enough sensors in the cymbals. I'd be interested in a reasonably priced upgrade, but I can't justify shelling out the money for any kind of e-kit (even an ION). GoodWoods might be an option (though I've heard less-than-wonderful things about their cymbals) but they're expensive and don't come with any mounting system whatsoever. They're also ugly as sin and won't match the MetalWorkz pads I'll probably be getting in the next few months (unless someone can convince me to get GoodWoods instead).

    My current strategy is to drop down to the pad for fast cymbal rolls, but that's not an option in Pro mode, where I will certainly lose points and possibly not get credit for the note at all. I can't imagine that HMX doesn't have a solution for this, even if it's just new cymbals from MadCatz...especially if they end up flipping hi-hat runs in Pro mode.
    The cymbals coming out for RB3 are totally new and redesigned. Will they be better, I don't know, I'm not making them, but they will be redesigned so they should be.
  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    davidshek;3756647 said:
    You have the wrong impression of Pro Mode on drums as well. :) The cymbal notes will appear regardless of whether you have Pro turned on for drums or not, we've seen that from the game screenshots already released. The difference is that in Pro mode, you are required to hit the cymbals for those notes. In non-Pro, you are not.
    And you have the wrong impression as well! You will not be required to hit the cymbals in pro mode, but you will score more if you hit the proper surface.

    This was revealed in an interview that said that you can play pro mode with only one cymbal, but you won't get the bonuses for the cymbals you don't have.

    EDIT: Here it is from Markleford:

    http://www.plasticaxe.com/2010/06/11/exclusive-interview-new-details-on-rock-band-3-pro-mode-peripherals-and-drum-functionality/3/

    OK, right. So, it supports three cymbals, right?

    DS: Correct. [Editor's note: Yes, I know I missed something. Wait for it.] Although it’s pretty modular. In Rock Band Pro, you can play if you only have one cymbal, but you’ll suffer on the leaderboards. The game behind Pro drums is that you get extra score for hitting the correct surface. And if you don’t, it makes it a little harder to survive through the end of the song. But that covers the one-, two-, or three-cymbal configurations. Depending on what you have, the game adapts to that.
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    FairwoodStudios;3757991 said:
    The cymbals coming out for RB3 are totally new and redesigned. Will they be better, I don't know, I'm not making them, but they will be redesigned so they should be.
    Oh? I haven't heard anything about new cymbals. I guess this got lost in the flurry of pro mode/new guitars/OMFG KEYBOARD.
  • xJavontaPlaysDrumsxJavontaPlaysDrums Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    davidshek;3756647 said:
    You have the wrong impression of Pro Mode on drums as well. :) The cymbal notes will appear regardless of whether you have Pro turned on for drums or not, we've seen that from the game screenshots already released. The difference is that in Pro mode, you are required to hit the cymbals for those notes. In non-Pro, you are not.
    In the Pre-E3 Videos I've seen the standard gems instead of where the cymbals should be in non-pro mode.
  • mbnasir6mbnasir6 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    xJavontaPlaysDrums;3761795 said:
    In the Pre-E3 Videos I've seen the standard gems instead of where the cymbals should be in non-pro mode.
    That means they are played on the toms
    NoThru22;3758762 said:
    And you have the wrong impression as well! You will not be required to hit the cymbals in pro mode, but you will score more if you hit the proper surface.

    This was revealed in an interview that said that you can play pro mode with only one cymbal, but you won't get the bonuses for the cymbals you don't have.
    I still think your Rock Meter should slowly go down for when your hitting a pad instead of cymbal
    It's understandable that not everyone has 3 cymbals but still, no one has the new keyboard or guitar required for Pro Mode, if they wanna play Pro they gotta get the right stuff
  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    mbnasir6;3761994 said:
    That means they are played on the toms
    I highly doubt some of the blue/red patterns we've seen videos or screeshots of are exclusively playing them on the toms. Remember that Rock Band 3 is not a finished product and there also may be more going on behind the scenes than we think (perhaps you can choose to show cymbal notations in non-pro, etc.)
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    xJavontaPlaysDrums;3761795 said:
    In the Pre-E3 Videos I've seen the standard gems instead of where the cymbals should be in non-pro mode.
    Were there cymbals plugged in? It doesn't show cymbal gems for ones you don't have.
  • mbnasir6mbnasir6 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    macamatic;3762257 said:
    Were there cymbals plugged in? It doesn't show cymbal gems for ones you don't have.
    :Facepalm:
    The game doesn't "detect" you have cymbals and then Pro Mode appears
    Like I said before, I could use an RB1 Kit to play Pro Mode, I just wouldn't do to well

    Even if you have one cymbal you have to suffer because it will show all three
    NoThru22;3762101 said:
    I highly doubt some of the blue/red patterns we've seen videos or screeshots of are exclusively playing them on the toms.
    Have you play anything by Rise against? A Lot of their beat is on Blue/green but usually played on toms

    Not everything is played on cymbals
  • cmajpwccmajpwc Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    Will pro mode be available on the same Rock Band 3 disc? Or will there be a regular Rock Band 3 disc with the normal difficulties, and then a separate Rock Band 3 Pro disc? I know that's probably a stupid question, and I hate asking stupid questions, but I'm really trying to figure this out. Either way, I can't wait to play pro drums.
  • GDVPlayerGDVPlayer Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    cmajpwc;3763147 said:
    Will pro mode be available on the same Rock Band 3 disc? Or will there be a regular Rock Band 3 disc with the normal difficulties, and then a separate Rock Band 3 Pro disc? I know that's probably a stupid question, and I hate asking stupid questions, but I'm really trying to figure this out. Either way, I can't wait to play pro drums.
    Yeah it's a dumb question lol, everything is on one disc bro :D.
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2010
    mbnasir6;3762889 said:
    :Facepalm:
    The game doesn't "detect" you have cymbals and then Pro Mode appears
    Like I said before, I could use an RB1 Kit to play Pro Mode, I just wouldn't do to well

    Even if you have one cymbal you have to suffer because it will show all three
    Actually, you're wrong about that. The game WILL detect which cymbals you have plugged in, and only display cymbal gems for those particular colors. Daniel Sussman said that in his interview with Plastic Axe.

    http://www.plasticaxe.com/2010/06/11/exclusive-interview-new-details-on-rock-band-3-pro-mode-peripherals-and-drum-functionality/2/
    The game behind Pro drums is that you get extra score for hitting the correct surface. And if you don’t, it makes it a little harder to survive through the end of the song. But that covers the one-, two-, or three-cymbal configurations. Depending on what you have, the game adapts to that.
  • cmajpwccmajpwc Opening Act
    edited June 2010
    GDVPlayer;3763190 said:
    Yeah it's a dumb question lol, everything is on one disc bro :D.
    Awesome. I swear that has to be the first thing I feel stupid about asking in what, it has to be years... lol

    At least I didn't get flamed for it. Lol
  • mbnasir6mbnasir6 Road Warrior
    edited June 2010
    The way its said, is if you don't have 3 cymbals, your gonna have to play on toms, and not get extra points for using cymbals

    it makes it a little harder to survive through the end of the song
    That quote confuses, me. If you have only 1 cymbal plugged in, you should only have to hit that cymbal, the rest on the pads
    So why exactly would it be harder for you to pass the song?

    So its not confirmed whether the game detects you have cymbals
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2010
    mbnasir6;3765069 said:
    The way its said, is if you don't have 3 cymbals, your gonna have to play on toms, and not get extra points for using cymbals

    it makes it a little harder to survive through the end of the song
    That quote confuses, me. If you have only 1 cymbal plugged in, you should only have to hit that cymbal, the rest on the pads
    So why exactly would it be harder for you to pass the song?

    So its not confirmed whether the game detects you have cymbals
    Sure it is, you just have to do a little bit of interpretation. His line of "the game adapts to that" is pretty clear that the game will adapt to your configuration. But let's take a look at the one line you quoted, and apply it to the scenario you gave of having only 1 cymbal, and let's say that's the yellow cymbal.

    You're playing a song with only 1 cymbal plugged in. The game displays cymbal gems for only yellow notes. But you're hitting the yellow pad for those notes instead of the cymbal. So you're not gaining the score bonus from hitting the incorrect surface, and since the whole point of Pro Drums is that it requires you to hit the correct surface, you'll (I'm guessing) also get a crowd meter penalty for hitting the incorrect surface. That would make it harder to survive through the end of the song, yes?

    Since you don't have cymbals plugged in for Green and Blue, it won't display cymbal gems for those 2 lanes, nor would it penalize you on the crowd meter. But you also wouldn't have an opportunity to gain a score bonus for cymbal notes, which would make it harder for you to gain position on the Pro Drum leaderboards.
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