Should "Energy" be fixed and reposted?

mattgreigmattgreig Unsigned
edited July 2010 in The Rock Band Network
As many of you now know, "Energy" by The Apples in Stereo has a capitalization error in the band name (lower case "the"), which is causing the song sorting bug when you download other Apples in Stereo songs. I would really like some community feedback, then, on whether this should be fixed, or left alone.

YES - FIX IT

Pros: gets rid of the sorting bug; all Apples in Stereo songs will sort under a single "The Apples in Stereo" heading on the song selection screen
Cons: players who download the new version won't be able to play players who still have the old version

NO - LEAVE IT BE
Pros: maintains a single version of the song for all players; no multiplayer compatibility issues
Cons: sorting bug will continue to be a problem

Note: Harmonix has a fix for the PS3 version of the song, so this only relates to the original XBOX 360 version.

I'd very much appreciate any thoughts you have on the topic. I will go with whatever solution the community here deems as the best course of action.

Comments

  • kevinsanokevinsano Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    What does the bug do exactly? Is it under its own header that starts with a lowercase "the"?
  • PankrazzoPankrazzo Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    I don't want a fix because RB3 will most probably solve this problem.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    kevinsano;3850983 said:
    What does the bug do exactly? Is it under its own header that starts with a lowercase "the"?
    It's a bit more brutal than that. If someone has three or more Apples in Stereo songs, and one of them is Energy, they will be stuck in a loop on those three songs when scrolling through their library.

    The real issue is only that it took so long to find and figure out the real bug; if this was found quickly the song could be pulled with minimal effect. Still, I think this should be fixed if only because it annoys the hell out of the software guy in me. (And, of course, we don't really want to be putting out "buggy" RBN songs if we can avoid it, even after the fact.)
  • mattgreigmattgreig Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    FairwoodStudios;3851037 said:
    It's a bit more brutal than that. If someone has three or more Apples in Stereo songs, and one of them is Energy, they will be stuck in a loop on those three songs when scrolling through their library.

    The real issue is only that it took so long to find and figure out the real bug; if this was found quickly the song could be pulled with minimal effect. Still, I think this should be fixed if only because it annoys the hell out of the software guy in me. (And, of course, we don't really want to be putting out "buggy" RBN songs if we can avoid it, even after the fact.)
    Yep, perfect summary.

    I hate the bug too, and it would be a no-brainer to pull the song and fix it if it was a new release. But 3+ months on the marketplace means a lot of people are going to end up with obsolete versions if we pull it and post a new one.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited July 2010
    If there's a way to refund people for the original version, then go for it. But if the song is playable (albeit with an annoying bug) then it's tough to make a case to resell a new version.
  • MickstafaMickstafa Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    I personally think that this is classified as a bug with the game and should be addressed/fixed by Harmonix. Authors should not be held responsible for issues that make the game crash or loop, even if they are genuine mistakes such as the capitalization of a word in the band name.

    I think it would be a mistake to pull it from the marketplace given that this only a real issue because of a bug with Harmonix's code.
  • PankrazzoPankrazzo Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
  • HeyRilesHeyRiles Besse's Girl
    edited July 2010
    Don't pull it. It's easily fixed by the player by just going to a different sorting style, and I would be shocked if this bug wasn't fixed in 2-3 months
  • PlutarchPlutarch Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Can we fix "Fat Kid" instead? That one has way worse problems.
  • Nathaniel607Nathaniel607 Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    Personally, I think this is the biggest overbearing problem with RBN.

    Harmonix should be more involved, and songs should be editible (then fixed with an update). Basically, Harmonix should have just said - "fixing the bug" then next time you go onto your song list, it'll update, and hunky dory.

    And, when Harmonix sees absolutely ******ed charts (like Cancer Bats - Sorceress or Fat Kid) they should fix them. It's not that hard - there's only a few.
  • FujiSkunkFujiSkunk Headliner
    edited July 2010
    Remember that RBN tracks are subject to all the rules and regulations of Microsoft XNA content, and I'm willing to bet patches to XBox 360 games must also undergo heavy scrutiny and/or some sort of validation process with Microsoft. Even with people willing to redownload or even re-pay for a new edition, it's not simply up to the developers to say "here's a fix" when you've got all these other hoops to jump through.

    Personally I think it's much ado about (nearly) nothing. Yes, it's annoying to see the by-artist sort break, but it's only for this particular track, it doesn't interfere with actually playing the song (even in a setlist), the problem goes away when you sort by some other method, and RB3 is going to make RB2 and its bugs obsolete anyway.
    And, when Harmonix sees absolutely ******ed charts (like Cancer Bats - Sorceress or Fat Kid) they should fix them. It's not that hard - there's only a few.
    Neglecting the points already mentioned, this would open up a whole new can of worms. The idea of the RBN is that content comes from people other than Harmonix. Therefore it is not Harmonix's responsibility to make sure the charts are kosher. To make it their responsibility would put undue burden on an already busy company, and/or slow RBN output down severely.

    If you think shoddy charts are making it through the review process, you can always join the XNA Creators Club and help review them yourself.
  • XenigmaXenigma Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    In my opinion, it should be left alone so that you don't mess up anyone who has already bought the track. If it was caught within a week like Beautiful Machine, that's one thing. Several months later, though, is just too late. I have faith Harmonix will patch it up, though, since a caps-specific artist sort seems unnecessarily clunky regardless.
  • mogwaimonmogwaimon Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    I wouldn't be so quick to assume RB3 will fix this issue, the entire problem is because RB2's engine is case sensitive when it comes to loading songs, if the band name is even slightly different in the songs.dta it will be seen as a different band, although it is the same band... Same goes for albums.

    Well, we will see, hopefully the bug came to light early enough for HMX to catch it in time to fix it.
  • T-HybridT-Hybrid Washed Up
    edited July 2010
    Nathaniel607;3851265 said:
    Harmonix should be more involved, and songs should be editible (then fixed with an update). Basically, Harmonix should have just said - "fixing the bug" then next time you go onto your song list, it'll update, and hunky dory.
    Except that's not how the XNA works.
  • sonicnerd23sonicnerd23 Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Fix it. Improper formatting is a pet peeve of mine.
  • SgoastSgoast Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    i'll be honest. the glitch on energy is holding me back from buying the rest of the apples in stereo tracks. it's not meant to be some hamfisted "boycott" or whatever. i just really enjoy being able to present a clean songlist to my guests at parties. if energy got resubmitted with the right data or just got corrected in some way, i wouldn't just rebuy it, but i'd end up getting the rest of the tracks too since i really enjoy the band and i know your work is quality.

    oh oddly selective OCD. you are so crazy.
  • MickstafaMickstafa Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    Again, those who are saying "Fix it! Fix it!" does not necessarily mean resubmitting this track -- HMX should fix the bug. If it is pulled and resubmitted, it will make an already sticky situation stickier.
  • Nathaniel607Nathaniel607 Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    FujiSkunk;3851876 said:

    Neglecting the points already mentioned, this would open up a whole new can of worms. The idea of the RBN is that content comes from people other than Harmonix. Therefore it is not Harmonix's responsibility to make sure the charts are kosher. To make it their responsibility would put undue burden on an already busy company, and/or slow RBN output down severely.

    If you think shoddy charts are making it through the review process, you can always join the XNA Creators Club and help review them yourself.
    I think they could just fix a couple. It's not loads.

    Also, no I couldn't. I'm not 18 and I don't have £100 or however much it is. Trust me, if I could, I freaking would. Some of the mistakes are just atrocious. Beyond shoddy. Shoddy isn't that bad - it implies that it still resembles the original song/is fun.

    Sorceress by Cancer Bats is just missing a freaking solo.
  • mattgreigmattgreig Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    With HMX in the midst of finaling Rock Band 3, I would guess that per-song RBN fixes are likely not high on the priority list. I would have loved to see the song selection screen go case-insensitive too, which would have fixed Apples in Stereo (plus a few other bands with inconsistent capitalization), but that's also probably too much to ask at this point.

    Realistically, I'm confident HMX will have this fixed for RB3, at which point the issue will go away. Given the feedback on this thread, I'm thinking the best course of action now is to wait it out a few more months, rather than introducing a second version of the song this late in the game.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Nathaniel607;3857289 said:
    I think they could just fix a couple. It's not loads.

    Also, no I couldn't. I'm not 18 and I don't have £100 or however much it is. Trust me, if I could, I freaking would. Some of the mistakes are just atrocious. Beyond shoddy. Shoddy isn't that bad - it implies that it still resembles the original song/is fun.

    Sorceress by Cancer Bats is just missing a freaking solo.
    No, they shouldn't fix any of them. FujiSkunk is absolutely right. The RBN is all about community-driven involvement without mandates from HMX. If a song's charts managed to pass through testing and get into play and someone played the demo and liked it enough to buy it, there you go. If someone is worried about charting on the RBN enough to want to go past the demo, then there's YouTube. That's how we handle it at our house Otherwise, you accept the risk you get and Harmonix should not be involved short of forcibly removing a song because it breaks actual submission rules and was somehow missed before being put up.
  • weirdphilweirdphil Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Voting No. I don't want my current version to be incompatible. RB3 is coming out later this year, let HMX fix it.
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Harmonix could easily make a fix for this sort of thing on their end in-game. It would surprise me greatly if Rock Band 3 didn't already have this functionality.
  • bodissiebodissie Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    FairwoodStudios;3851037 said:
    It's a bit more brutal than that. If someone has three or more Apples in Stereo songs, and one of them is Energy, they will be stuck in a loop on those three songs when scrolling through their library.

    The real issue is only that it took so long to find and figure out the real bug; if this was found quickly the song could be pulled with minimal effect. Still, I think this should be fixed if only because it annoys the hell out of the software guy in me. (And, of course, we don't really want to be putting out "buggy" RBN songs if we can avoid it, even after the fact.)
    yep ...I just found this out the hard way last night.

    I thought that the only problem these songs had was with their sorting in the menu and that did not bother me enough for me to delete "Energy" or to stop me from downloading "Told You Once". After playing Told You Once though I got stuck in the loop and am considering deleting one of the songs.

    They are all so damn good though.
  • WebdanzerWebdanzer Unsigned
    edited July 2010
    Has this issue still not been addressed? I own two of the Apples' songs and I would actually like to buy all of the rest, but I really don't want to mess up my sort.

    Has anyone tried contacting the Apples In Stereo about this somhehow? I feel like this glitch is costing them some $.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    Or, and I realise this is just too crazy to contemplate, but you could delete Energy and either wait and see if they release a fix for RB2, if they fix it in RB3, or if they re-release the song on RBN.
  • FujiSkunkFujiSkunk Headliner
    edited July 2010
    Webdanzer;3884030 said:
    Has anyone tried contacting the Apples In Stereo about this somhehow? I feel like this glitch is costing them some $.
    The Apples in Stereo had nothing to do with this glitch, and there is nothing they can do to fix it, beyond asking that one of their songs be pulled. I suspect that would hurt sales even more.
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited July 2010
    From what I'm gathering, the current plan is to wait and see this is going to be fixed in Rock Band 3; there are a few albums in Harmonix' own catalog that are affected by case sensitivity issues as well (albeit not to a game-breaking extent).
  • ForToday777ForToday777 Opening Act
    edited July 2010
    If there is one song that could be fixed I wish it would be A Day To Remember's "I'm Made of Wax Larry...", they mixed that song horribly. I don't think they will fix it just for an issue in the title, because of the possibility of people having different versions as the OP pointed out.
  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    edited July 2010
    SirDavidTLynch;3888007 said:
    From what I'm gathering, the current plan is to wait and see this is going to be fixed in Rock Band 3; there are a few albums in Harmonix' own catalog that are affected by case sensitivity issues as well (albeit not to a game-breaking extent).
    Such as the Foo Fighters' "There Is Nothing Left To Lose"
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