Earlier Songs

ForgottenTerrorForgottenTerror Unsigned
edited August 2010 in The Beatles: Rock Band
Why is there hardly any earlier beatle work? There's only 10 songs that are pre 1965 out of 45 songs:@
I want more please please me, with the beatles, beatles for sale and a hard days night songs .

Please please me:
-Anna (Go to him)
-Misery
-Please Please Me
-Love Me Do

With The Beatles:
- All my loving
- Money
- Please Mr Postman
- You've really got a hold on me
- Rollover Beethoven
- Not a second time
- Little Child

A hard days night:
- And I love her
- Anytime at all
- I'm happy just to dance with you
- You can't do that
- Tell me why
- I should have known better
- If I fell

Beatles for sale:
- No reply
- Babys in black
- Rock and roll music
- Words of love
- Every little thing
- I'm a loser
- Honey don't

Comments

  • MostSpartan14MostSpartan14 Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    ForgottenTerror;3923763 said:
    Why is there hardly any earlier beatle work?
    Because the masters are harder to work with because they sometimes aren't completely separated or bad quality. Or they don't even exist anymore.
  • ForgottenTerrorForgottenTerror Unsigned
    edited August 2010
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited August 2010
  • soup567soup567 Headliner
    edited August 2010
    MostSpartan14;3923777 said:
    Because the masters are harder to work with because they sometimes aren't completely separated or bad quality. Or they don't even exist anymore.
    I think masters are irrelevant. Just use the highest quality recording of the song that is available even if it isn't a master.
  • MostSpartan14MostSpartan14 Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    soup567;3927573 said:
    I think masters are irrelevant. Just use the highest quality recording of the song that is available even if it isn't a master.
    Silly soup, it has to be a master or it won't work in the game. All the instruments have to be separated. Drums, guitar, bass, and vocals can't be on the same track so that if, for example, you miss a note on guitar it only cuts off the guitar sound, not the whole song. Hence why there has to be masters, not just a random mp3 or something. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you were trying to say, it HAS to be a master recording. And there's no way around that.
  • BubbleBobbleBubbleBobble Rising Star
    edited August 2010
    little child
    little child
    little child won't ya dance with me
  • BeatlesFan88BeatlesFan88 Rising Star
    edited August 2010
    MostSpartan14;3927648 said:
    Silly soup, it has to be a master or it won't work in the game. All the instruments have to be separated. Drums, guitar, bass, and vocals can't be on the same track so that if, for example, you miss a note on guitar it only cuts off the guitar sound, not the whole song. Hence why there has to be masters, not just a random mp3 or something. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you were trying to say, it HAS to be a master recording. And there's no way around that.
    Heh heh... silly soup.
  • CheesesCrustCheesesCrust Banned
    edited August 2010
    We should all just wait. I have a vision that we will get more DLC, but im not certain. All we gotta do is wait "that's all we gotta do"
  • Dozer3677Dozer3677 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    Um, to the OP, what about

    Please, Please Me?
    I'll Follow The Sun?
    Chains?

    Those are songs I would want also. I could do without Money, but like the rest of your choices.

    Soup, if you didn't care about the masters, you can make your own RB songs and just use those versions.

    you need the masters for.....lets be specific.

    When you mess up playing drums, the whole song doesn't stop playing, just the drum part. That is because the master tapes, they are tapes of a song, but each individual instrument and vocal have there own tape. When you combine all the tapes, you get a whole song. If you were to just listen to one tape, it may just be George playing the guitar. And that would be it. If you just used the finished product, when you miss that same note playing the drums, instead of just the drum part not playing, the whole song would stop playing, guitar, bass & vocals. So playing with a full band, if one person messes up, the entire song would stop playing until someone hit a note. Does that make sense?


    I know HELP master tapes are supposedly lost or broken. Because you know that song is perfect for the game, with the AWESOME harmonies. But I remember that. I am sure Help isn't the only one though, which may/probably will be bad news for us looking for early beatles stuff.
  • ForgottenTerrorForgottenTerror Unsigned
    edited August 2010
    yea, i'd like please please me and chains, oh and wot about love me do,
    i'm not the biggest fan of i'll follow the sun, how come u dont want money, its a great song :)
  • Dozer3677Dozer3677 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    ForgottenTerror;3952285 said:
    yea, i'd like please please me and chains, oh and wot about love me do,
    i'm not the biggest fan of i'll follow the sun, how come u dont want money, its a great song :)
    Yes, and love me do. That was in fact one of the 10 songs I mentioned in QOD Thread. You know, I really don't know. It isn't a song I dislike, and it is SOOO Much better than recent covers of the song (like the one in Empire Records). It is a catchy song, but for some reason, I just always find myself skipping it. My fav. parts are the semi off key harmonies when john sings the long "Mohhhhhhh-hooooonnnnie". I really like follow the sun. It is a nice little song, and the guitar is so catchy. Really love the lyrics. It is a slower song, and I normally like a faster up tempo song, but that song has like the phantom of the opera effect on me. The calming of the beast. My little brother got me into the song, we will try to have each listen to songs that the other likes, or maybe something I am not appreciating as much as I should.
  • JoeSaintsFanJoeSaintsFan Rising Star
    edited August 2010
    They need more early songs
  • HotMangoChutneyHotMangoChutney Rising Star
    edited August 2010
    Dozer3677;3951963 said:
    Um, to the OP, what about

    Please, Please Me?
    I'll Follow The Sun?
    Chains?
    To hell with those songs -- why did he completely omit A Hard Day's Night from his list???? :confused:
  • Dozer3677Dozer3677 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    HotMangoChutney;3960650 said:
    To hell with those songs -- why did he completely omit A Hard Day's Night from his list???? :confused:
    well since you put it that way.....
  • fatalfiend37fatalfiend37 Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    I don't get it, if the masters are hard to find and or broken, then how did they remaster them ?
  • jrdj87jrdj87 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    were they lost? they had them in 1987 when george martin remixed them?
  • RetroGamingRetroGaming Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    This is my understanding of how music is mastered. Sorry if I'm not 100% right.

    "Masters" is a fairly ambiguous word to use when describing what exactly is needed, so you have to understand that several different "masters" probably exist for all of The Beatles recorded output (except the ones that have been destroyed).

    Basically, what Harmonix needs is access to the master stems, or the multi-track tape(s) that were mixed down into the "master" that you actually hear when you buy an LP or CD.

    Especially in The Beatles earliest days, the multi-track would have probably been a live recording of them in the studio, whereas the "master" may have edited together two different tracks, re-equalized instruments for sonic balance, etc. Some masters also have over-dubs that were not played in the studio (such as sound effects and even additional parts) added on top.

    The difference between the two is that, on the multi-track, the parts are separated, which is what Harmonix needs to make the different instruments "stop playing" when a player misses notes, whereas the "master" is either in mono (every instrument on one track) or in stereo (instruments split between two tracks). If they tried to use these in the games, either no instruments would drop out or too many instruments would drop out when you missed notes, which is why they can't really be used.

    "Remastering" is really an ambiguous word too, but it usually just means taking the already created master (which is in mono or stereo) and re-equalizing it without changing the actual song (such as timing of fades, length of track, instrumentation, stereo field, etc.) Other things that may change include the dynamic range (difference between high/low), average "loudness" of the song, removing noises like tape hiss and other defects, etc. No new mix is made so there is no need to go back to the master stems, which is why remasters can be made without the existence of the stems.

    Really, Rock Band (both The Beatles and the main platform) require the songs to be remixed entirely, though these mixes are made to sound as close to the original as possible, so its (supposed to be) hard to tell the difference.

    If you're wondering why so many stems seem to be end up lost or destroyed: these stems were originally not as important as the one or two track "master tapes" that were used to actually press the vinyl copies (and later transferred to digital to make the CDs) because they could not be used to make vinyl copies, so recording companies were usually not as careful with them as they were with the masters. Plus, they're all approaching fifty years of age, so...
    jrdj87;3966090 said:
    were they lost? they had them in 1987 when george martin remixed them?
    As far as I know, Help! and Rubber Soul were the only albums that were remixed.
  • jrdj87jrdj87 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    RetroGaming;3966096 said:
    As far as I know, Help! and Rubber Soul were the only albums that were remixed.
    thats what i thought, i never knew why it was just those two?
  • RetroGamingRetroGaming Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    The original stereo mixing was a little more jarring than the later ones, with vocals hard-panned to one side and other mixing that George Martin felt might put off some newer listeners. The first four albums were only issued in mono at that time (1987) at George Martin's request, though they have been released in stereo in the most recent reissue program.
  • jrdj87jrdj87 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    ah that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up :)
  • CaptainHarlockCaptainHarlock Unsigned
    edited August 2010
    RetroGaming;3966096 said:
    This is my understanding of how music is mastered. Sorry if I'm not 100% right.

    "Masters" is a fairly ambiguous word to use when describing what exactly is needed, so you have to understand that several different "masters" probably exist for all of The Beatles recorded output (except the ones that have been destroyed).

    Basically, what Harmonix needs is access to the master stems, or the multi-track tape(s) that were mixed down into the "master" that you actually hear when you buy an LP or CD.

    Especially in The Beatles earliest days, the multi-track would have probably been a live recording of them in the studio, whereas the "master" may have edited together two different tracks, re-equalized instruments for sonic balance, etc. Some masters also have over-dubs that were not played in the studio (such as sound effects and even additional parts) added on top.

    The difference between the two is that, on the multi-track, the parts are separated, which is what Harmonix needs to make the different instruments "stop playing" when a player misses notes, whereas the "master" is either in mono (every instrument on one track) or in stereo (instruments split between two tracks). If they tried to use these in the games, either no instruments would drop out or too many instruments would drop out when you missed notes, which is why they can't really be used.

    "Remastering" is really an ambiguous word too, but it usually just means taking the already created master (which is in mono or stereo) and re-equalizing it without changing the actual song (such as timing of fades, length of track, instrumentation, stereo field, etc.) Other things that may change include the dynamic range (difference between high/low), average "loudness" of the song, removing noises like tape hiss and other defects, etc. No new mix is made so there is no need to go back to the master stems, which is why remasters can be made without the existence of the stems.

    Really, Rock Band (both The Beatles and the main platform) require the songs to be remixed entirely, though these mixes are made to sound as close to the original as possible, so its (supposed to be) hard to tell the difference.

    If you're wondering why so many stems seem to be end up lost or destroyed: these stems were originally not as important as the one or two track "master tapes" that were used to actually press the vinyl copies (and later transferred to digital to make the CDs) because they could not be used to make vinyl copies, so recording companies were usually not as careful with them as they were with the masters. Plus, they're all approaching fifty years of age, so...



    As far as I know, Help! and Rubber Soul were the only albums that were remixed.

    I have to add that in the early days, as George Martin recounted in The Complete Beatles that you essentially recorded a "performance". Just about everything was recorded directly to a two channel tape machine. It was then "mixed" sometimes with tape to tape overdubs, to a mono "master". Please, Please Me was recorded initially without the harmonica part, because it was too difficult for John to play it and quickly go back to his guitar for the recording. It was added later in a tape to tape overdub. The Beatles didn't get their first four track machine until 1965, about the time Help! was being recorded.

    There's a very interesting book called The Beatles Recording Sessions which gives you detailed information taken directly from the Abbey Road session notes.
  • jrdj87jrdj87 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    i believe a hard days night was the first album they used a four track for the first time, it says so in the album notes of the remasters. the first song they used a four track on was 'i want to hold your hand', i've just read that in 'revolution in the head', and mentioned in the notes of past masters.
  • TheSituationTheSituation Unsigned
    edited August 2010
    Thats why The White Album and Let it Be would be great for RB.
  • Dozer3677Dozer3677 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    TheSituation;3969521 said:
    Thats why The White Album and Let it Be would be great for RB.
    absolutely. the technology advanced a lot in that short amount of time from AHDN to Sgt Peppers/MMT/The White Album.
  • CaptainHarlockCaptainHarlock Unsigned
    edited August 2010
    jrdj87;3968906 said:
    i believe a hard days night was the first album they used a four track for the first time, it says so in the album notes of the remasters. the first song they used a four track on was 'i want to hold your hand', i've just read that in 'revolution in the head', and mentioned in the notes of past masters.
    My memory is failing me in my young old age :(

    Indeed you are correct about I Want To Hold Your Hand being recorded on a four track.
  • KEWBKEWB Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    With the limitations in technology of the 60s and earlier when it came to recording, I never really got over how amazing it is that we got any Beatles at all, let alone an entire game's worth of songs with a decent amount of dlc.
  • RetroGamingRetroGaming Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    CaptainHarlock;3967428 said:

    I have to add that in the early days, as George Martin recounted in The Complete Beatles that you essentially recorded a "performance". Just about everything was recorded directly to a two channel tape machine. It was then "mixed" sometimes with tape to tape overdubs, to a mono "master". Please, Please Me was recorded initially without the harmonica part, because it was too difficult for John to play it and quickly go back to his guitar for the recording. It was added later in a tape to tape overdub. The Beatles didn't get their first four track machine until 1965, about the time Help! was being recorded.
    Didn't I say that?
    Especially in The Beatles earliest days, the multi-track would have probably been a live recording of them in the studio, whereas the "master" may have edited together two different tracks, re-equalized instruments for sonic balance, etc. Some masters also have over-dubs that were not played in the studio (such as sound effects and even additional parts) added on top.
    I'm not asking in a mean way, I just want to make sure I'm not misreading what you're saying.
  • CaptainHarlockCaptainHarlock Unsigned
    edited August 2010
    Yeah you did. I thought I was just adding an interesting little tid bit about Please, Please Me, but ended up repeating most of what you said. Dang I need to have my eyes checked.
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