No Pro Guitar in RBN2 ?

ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
edited January 2012 in The Rock Band Network
Is this true? I can not believe harmonix would do this to us!

I hear the reason is that it would be too time consuming to chart. This is not a problem for me since I would be very willing to pay extra for quality pro guitar charts.

I know I am not the only one who feels this way. We who purchase the songs religiously don't care how much this stuff costs as long as it is quality. Pro guitar would be worth a couple extra dollars to cover the extra charting time.


Forgive me if this is a re-post of a previous thread, I could not find anybody else talking about this in the search.


What do you guys think? Would you pay extra for pro guitar charted songs?

BTW, when posting about RBN 2.0 I suggest typing: RBN2 to enable the forum search to find posts relating to the new RBN.

Comments

  • Casto21Casto21 Rock and Roll Statistician
    edited August 2010
    There are more reasons for not having Pro Guitars in RBN than the authoring time.

    One, there is the development time and resources for HMX to deliver the tooling. But the one that would concern me is the Testing and Reviewing issues. I doubt all the testers will have the knowledge, time, and equipment to do tests. And right now it is hard to get a song through review but imagine if it required 8 reviews from people who have the ability to correctly analyze the Pro Guitar. The songs would never get released or they would get out with very few checks.
  • Nathaniel607Nathaniel607 Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    It's because it would be absolutely ridicolous to ask the authors to transcribe guitar solos note-for-note. Half of them wouldn't do it anyways. We'd get so many craptastic charts it would be crazy. Seriously - it's just too much to ask of the author's. The peer reviews would have to last about 10 times longer than the already do. It would take 10 times longer to chart things. It would just be stupid.
  • ThunderCurlsThunderCurls Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    ZiggyXNAMVP;3977314 said:
    Is this true? I can not believe harmonix would do this to us!
    Children starving in Ethopia and you can't play a half arsed guitar teaching system on certain songs in a video game?

    How about you do it the normal way and get a tutor, instead of expecting that a video game will make you shred like Jeff Loomis or John 5.

    I'm crying for you right now.
  • ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    ThunderCurls - Let's keep this conversation out of the gutters please.

    I respectfully disagree about the solo charting being too difficult and I believe harmonix has the full capability to implement the functionality in RBN2.

    It does concern me that so much negativity is invoked when talking about Pro Guitar. This feature, to me, is the best thing since sliced bread!

    Please keep responses constructive.
  • I_Love_YouI_Love_You Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    It would slow the release of RBN songs to a near standstill, as it takes a REALLY long time to chart pro guitar.

    Then you have to have playtesters who own the pro guitar and can play to the expert level. (Think of the exceedingly few song testers we have, then divide that by about 1,000).

    And that's all for a pro guitar / bass track (that will most likely have been charted wrong) and that most players won't even touch.

    It makes perfect sense.
  • ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    I would try to stay away from saying stuff like 'the charts will be wrong' and 'people wont play pro guitar'. I disagree with these statements.

    As far as getting the songs through play-test it may actually speed things up if more people get into rock band/RBN for the pro guitar.

    Keep in mind I do suggest increasing the price of the pro guitar charted songs.
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited August 2010
    ZiggyXNAMVP;3977426 said:
    It does concern me that so much negativity is invoked when talking about Pro Guitar. This feature, to me, is the best thing since sliced bread!
    Everyone agrees that Pro Guitar will be awesome to play. They're just pointing out that odds are that it's going to be extremely difficult to chart for the first few months, particularly if RBN 2.0 is going to be filled with insane death and grindcore metal filled with fretfest solos the way RBN 1.0 is right now. Also, it'd be just as difficult--if not more--for everyone to develop a consensus as to how those kinds of things should be charted ("Was that G chord a power chord, or was it a full chord? Was it in Drop-D tuning, or standard tuning, or detuned a half-tone?")
    ZiggyXNAMVP;3977498 said:
    I would try to stay away from saying stuff like 'the charts will be wrong' and 'people wont play pro guitar'. I disagree with these statements.
    It's not necessarily that people are worried the charting will be wrong, it's that people will be busy arguing over what is right.

    And that's assuming they can even read the Pro-Expert charts properly and play them--the "easiest" part, since that's the most literal interpretation of the song. The moment you get to Pro-Hard, Pro-Medium, and Pro-Easy charts, excrement is launched at the ventilation system with incredible precision. Testers will debate about whether or not whether or not the charting fits protocol (and at this point we don't even KNOW what the protocol is) and whether or not it represents the song accurately.
    As far as getting the songs through play-test it may actually speed things up if more people get into rock band/RBN for the pro guitar.
    I don't think adding the functionality to RBN is going to be an incentive for people to get a pro-guitar; rather, the other way around. The more people buy up Pro Guitars and start mastering them like crazy, the more likely Harmonix, during its bi/annual review of RBN, will decide that "sure, we'll add Pro Guitar to the new spec."
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited August 2010
    I'm gonna copypasta what I said in another thread:
    SirDavidTLynch;3976122 said:
    Some authors, be they companies or just one person doing everything, don't have the time or the real guitar skill to do pro charts, and their charts would be seen as substandard or incomplete, resulting in bands not hiring them to do charts. Meanwhile, playtesting would be even more difficult than it already is, with relatively few people owning a pro guitar right away, fewer people that can play on Expert, and even fewer people knowing if the notes they're playing are really the correct ones.

    On the flip side, because they're so time consuming, this could result in a spike in $3 songs, with consumers having to pay extra for a chart they may not use.
    Just because you'd pay "a couple extra dollars" doesn't mean everyone would pay $4-5 for just one song, especially the people sticking to basic mode, and especially on a platform that generally consists of lesser-known songs.
  • RealMessiahRealMessiah Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    It makes perfect sense to me that RBN would not have pro guitar. Talk about doubling the overhead for the authoring groups. They can't charge 3-6 dollars for songs.
  • axelkotheaxelkothe Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    ZiggyXNAMVP;3977314 said:
    What do you guys think? Would you pay extra for pro guitar charted songs?
    No I wouldn't. Because I won't spend any money on the pro guitar. And so will probably the majority of the RB3 customers.

    If there was a possibility to make different versions of the songs that sell for different amounts, that would be an entirely different thing. But to make people buy the more expensive songs just because of a Pro Guitar that most won't be playing... thats ridiculous.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited August 2010
    The best part of all this has got to be the continued 'I refuse to accept your explanations because I WANT IT!!!' responses.
  • ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
    edited August 2010
    I was hoping to see more support for this feature however it does appear that the current consensus is to leave it out of RBN for the time being.

    I can live with that for now :)

    Thanks guys.
  • Metal_Freak219Metal_Freak219 Rising Star
    edited August 2010
    ThunderCurls;3977367 said:
    Children starving in Ethopia and you can't play a half arsed guitar teaching system on certain songs in a video game?

    How about you do it the normal way and get a tutor, instead of expecting that a video game will make you shred like Jeff Loomis or John 5.

    I'm crying for you right now.
    If you're so worried about Children starving in Ethopia, and how it's not fair at all, then why don't you go try and change that? Instead of coming on threads on the Internet complaining about other people who might not do something, while you yourself probably don't either.
  • robinhoodisrobinhoodis Unsigned
    edited January 2012
    I was ready to begin the process of authoring/reviewing RBN2 songs, only to find out guitar and bass are not supported.
    Why can't the guitar/bass part be a separate upgrade purchase ?
    Really disappointed to see poor excuses for not allowing folks to author guitar/bass parts.
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited January 2012
    robinhoodis;4624227 said:
    I was ready to begin the process of authoring/reviewing RBN2 songs, only to find out guitar and bass are not supported.
    Why can't the guitar/bass part be a separate upgrade purchase ?
    Really disappointed to see poor excuses for not allowing folks to author guitar/bass parts.

    Poor excuses like there's few people that could properly chart it and even fewer that could properly review it. Not to mention the exceedingly high cost to rework the entire process to allow it versus the low financial reward? Totally lame.
  • Lowlander2Lowlander2 FaIling Star
    edited January 2012
    Jesus, I know I come off as indignant sometimes, but come on.

    There are a few people who have made custom charts for RBN songs, including Ultra Saturday making Pro Guitar and Bass upgrades for Zombies!! themselves, and that's about as good as you're gonna get.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited January 2012
    I'm assuming you mean pro guitar and bass?

    And there just isn't enough people that know how to chart pro guitar let alone to review it properly.

    I can think of MAYBE four authors at creators that would know how to chart pro guitar. And seeing as how you'd need the pro guitar to test it and to know that each note is where it should be (I've been part of RBN since before it launched and I don't know how to test it), there's just no way I ever see this happening.

    There's barely enough people left to test the standard authoring, let alone pro guitar/bass.
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited January 2012
    robinhoodis;4624227 said:
    I was ready to begin the process of authoring/reviewing RBN2 songs, only to find out guitar and bass are not supported.
    Why can't the guitar/bass part be a separate upgrade purchase ?
    We considered this at great length. Personally, I love pro bass, and I was really excited about the idea of pro bass coming to the RBN.

    But even if the community were capable of reviewing pro guitar/bass (and Catch-22 is right - the community isn't equipped for this), then we'd have to a) rework rockband.com, b) rework creators.rockband.com, c) restructure the XNA pipeline, d) restructure the RBN pipeline at Sony, and e) patch Rock Band 3.

    We could spend all that money, all that time, and all that development effort - but how many players would benefit from it? How many wouldn't care (because they don't play pro guitar, or they don't play RBN songs) and how many would be negatively affected (because of the delays in RBN releases)?

    Sadly, it's just not worth it.
  • non_zeronon_zero Opening Act
    edited January 2012
    FYI, you don't really need certain equipment to chart or playtest an instrument. You just have to be able to look at it autoplaying and tell if it's wrong.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited January 2012
    non_zero;4624478 said:
    FYI, you don't really need certain equipment to chart or playtest an instrument. You just have to be able to look at it autoplaying and tell if it's wrong.
    Well, no, because you can still take liberties on Pro charting. Simple stuff like how far you move to play the next part can be missed because of technical 'accuracy', while in-game, it feels more difficult for new users(and let's face it, there's more learning Pro players than experienced).

    To say nothing of the Harmonix employee providing other reasons.
  • non_zeronon_zero Opening Act
    edited January 2012
    You can take liberties with any instrument and be able to look at it and tell if it's awkward or unreasonable without technically touching the thing. Would it be better hands-on? Most likely, but it's not absolutely imperative.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited January 2012
    robinhoodis;4624227 said:
    I was ready to begin the process of authoring/reviewing RBN2 songs, only to find out guitar and bass are not supported.
    Why can't the guitar/bass part be a separate upgrade purchase ?
    Really disappointed to see poor excuses for not allowing folks to author guitar/bass parts.

    Let me guess, you don't develop software.
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