Time No More charting - Bad?

EvileOLEvileOL Opening Act
edited September 2010 in The Rock Band Network
H ieveryone, there seems to be quite a backlash to how Time No More was charted - what do you think?

Should this be re-done?

After all, it passed peer review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bnx3tfeicA

Comments

  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    It's worth noting, at the very least, that some people will hate any song no matter what. It's valuable to check with the community every now and then to make sure you're doing it right, but sometimes it can even be beneficial to ignore certain critics. There's always an Armond White.

    Though I'm sure, being in a major touring band, you kinda already knew that. :)
  • xXPM5KXxxXPM5KXx Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    I think you should stick to your guns man. Do YOU like the job you did? I think its fine how it is. Its giving people a challenge who arent used to a challenge. I give you kudos on that. But since you asked, no don't pull it.
  • st4t1c v01dst4t1c v01d Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    I have not played this song yet, but I'm pretty sure it can't be more annoying than the Exodus - Riot Act chart we got a few weeks ago. I was really looking forward to that song and I had no fun at all. Should it be recharted? Hell no. If it's hard as hell to play on real guitar it should be hard as hell to play in rock band. The other way round is way more annoying - a easy song on real guitar made hard by complex charting. In my opinion you don't have to change anything.
  • Nathaniel607Nathaniel607 Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    I think a lot of what you force strum is good (a lot of charters don't bother with is, and it shows). I don't think it would've been that fun a song without any force strums anyways... I think it's just a super-awkward song lol.
  • EvileOLEvileOL Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    The force strummed parts are played that way on real guitar so I thought why not.

    The very fast hopos are slid to on real guitar also, its just very fast.

    its hard as hell to play on real guitar, so expert RB i think has to be
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited September 2010
    Just because it's awkward doesn't make it a bad chart.

    There's parts of actual RB2 songs, like Master Exploder and Welcome to the Neighborhood, where I cannot handle a chord change for god knows why. Bad chart, no, just can't do it.
  • xXPM5KXxxXPM5KXx Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    EvileOL;3992625 said:
    The force strummed parts are played that way on real guitar so I thought why not.

    The very fast hopos are slid to on real guitar also, its just very fast.

    its hard as hell to play on real guitar, so expert RB i think has to be
    Right there just proves why you shouldnt redo it :) Its a hard song, and youve given an actual challenge for expert guitar players :D Like i said previously. i feel you should stick to your guns and keep the song how it is. Expert players have been looking for the next challenge, and drummers have been given many difficult ones from the RBN, so its about time guitarists get difficult ones ;)
  • Metal_Freak219Metal_Freak219 Rising Star
    edited September 2010
    Do you want me to be honest with you? There is not one thing wrong with that chart at all! The only main people thinking there's something wrong with it is the people that want to FC or GS the song and finding it impossible cause it's that hard, and they're pointing towards you and using a excuse cause they can't FC or GS star it. Like that guy in the video link you posted, he done grand and there's only one part when the chart looks a bit weird (right before the solo) and it's not even that bad. Listen, the chart is great like all the other songs, don't mind the people bashing the chart, there most likely looking for a excuse cause it's impossibly hard to FC or GS or something, Good job and keep releasing songs.
  • moomandwwmoomandww Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    Aquard chart =/= bad chart. Admittedly it would have been more fun if it had HO/PO's for the fast sections, but it no such a huge problem that you should re-chart it.
  • Thom1234Thom1234 Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    Well, RedRock Charters haven't taken down the abomination that is Fat Kid, GamerBeats haven't recharted and tempo-mapped Doublecrossed, and John Drake hasn't completely recharted the vocals for I Made a Game With Zombies. While bloody annoying and downright unpleasant to play, there's no way in hell that this is a worse chart than any of those, so it should stay.

    Also, just because a chart passes Peer Review doesn't mean it's good. It just didn't break any rules (No, HMX do not consider blatantly over-undercharting, inaccurate vocals charts and bad tempo-mapping rule breakers.)
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    RedRock Charters didn't even chart "Fat Kid". :/
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    DragoonXD;3993136 said:
    RedRock Charters didn't even chart "Fat Kid". :/
    Exactly. Yeah, that's a pretty big mistake to make...

    I hope that was a one-time slip, Thom1234, and you haven't been slagging them elsewhere, too!

    - m
  • sicwhite360sicwhite360 Unsigned
    edited September 2010
    I just think that you have to find a good middle ground between how it's played on real guitar and what would make a fun/playable chart on RB.

    This most definitely isn't always easy - as this chart shows.
  • taylorleetaylorlee Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    Thom1234;3993127 said:
    John Drake hasn't completely recharted the vocals for I Made a Game With Zombies.
    Glad I'm not the only person who found the chart to be really off on vocals.

    I wish I was a peer reviewer so I could say "Hey, the pitch on this chart is off, just an FYI."
  • TheAuthorityClintonTheAuthorityClinton Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    We could use a lot more play testers and reviewers. Especially those with good/perfect pitch!
  • ThunderCurlsThunderCurls Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    People will always complain, the end.
  • Mega-TallicaMega-Tallica Washed Up
    edited September 2010
    It looks pretty accurate, definitely doesn't have to be redone at all. Every chord and note is there. It's absolutely fine, the song just wasn't meant for a plastic guitar. :)
  • mrpoopsymrpoopsy Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    you already know my opinion. The song just isnt fun to play on RB at all

    I see where you are saying that its hard to play on real guitar so you made it like that on RB

    The worst parts of the song is where it goes chord hammer on then another chord really quick YO B BO that stuff is just about impossible

    same with the really quick single notes and the part at 2:33 is just a cluster of chords and single notes that is so un fun to play.

    I have all the evile songs and I feel like I got ripped off on this one
  • ThunderCurlsThunderCurls Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    I really do think this is just a simple case of something looking harder to play than it actually is.

    I see all the people complaining about it on YouTube but it seems simple enough to be able to play...
  • QuazifujiQuazifuji Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    I agree with everyone saying that there's nothing technically wrong with the chart, it deserved to pass peer review, and you definitely shouldn't redo it. Parts of it look incredibly awkward to play, but as you said, it's hard to play on a real guitar too, and everything there seems accurate (you'd know the part better than anyone else, after all).

    On the other hand, it's still probably worth considering the criticisms in the future. It's certainly good to have charts that attempt to replicate how the song's played on real guitar, and plenty of people enjoy challenges, and people looking for a tough song are probably going to check out Evile songs, since Thrasher was known as the hardest guitar song in the game for quite a while. However, there are still times when sacrificing a bit of accuracy or challenge can result in a chart that will generally be more fun to play.

    Avoiding too many forced strums is definitely something that will help in this regard. Actually, the abundance of forced strums in guitar solos in RBN in general is probably the most common complaint I've heard about RBN charting. While some people do enjoy moving both hands around at once, in general section with lots of fast fret movement and forced strumming are awkward and annoying to play, while most people find HOPOs to be very fun.

    Some of the sequences with chords going into pulloffs in this song (and I think I've seen similar parts in some of your other songs) also look pretty awkward. It's another case where the way you charted is very challenging and may best represent the actual guitar part, but sometimes sections like this can be more awkward and frustrating (and sometimes painful for your fretting hand) than fun.

    As everyone has said, your charts match the guitar part, and there's nothing wrong with trying to make your songs challenging as long as it accurately reflects the song, and I'm sure there are plenty of people that find your songs fun to play as is. But a lot of people would find the songs more fun to play if you sacrificed a bit of accuracy and challenge and didn't force strums for fast fretting parts even when you strum on a real guitar and maybe made the chords less awkward.

    In the end, it's mainly a stylistic decision that's up to you, and I'm not really trying to convince you one way or the other. I'm just trying to help make it clear what the complaints are about and how you could address them if you want to.
  • XygnusXygnus Rising Star
    edited September 2010
    mrpoopsy;3993684 said:
    The worst parts of the song is where it goes chord hammer on then another chord really quick YO B BO that stuff is just about impossible
    It's not really hard like you say. You don't have to take out two fingers to hit the blue note, you can just lift your pinky from orange, press blue and then lift yellow and press orange again. It's not really much harder than, say Shooting Star's awkward chords >_>
  • mrpoopsymrpoopsy Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    Xygnus;3994401 said:
    It's not really hard like you say. You don't have to take out two fingers to hit the blue note, you can just lift your pinky from orange, press blue and then lift yellow and press orange again. It's not really much harder than, say Shooting Star's awkward chords >_>
    no it is pretty damn hard

    I can only 3 star that song and I have 5 and gold starred all the other evile songs
  • KetsuppiKetsuppi Unsigned
    edited September 2010
    You can play it on Hard if it's too difficult on Expert '-'
  • Metal_Freak219Metal_Freak219 Rising Star
    edited September 2010
    Ketsuppi;3997092 said:
    You can play it on Hard if it's too difficult on Expert '-'
    Some people hate dropping to Hard from Expert, They feel like they aren't a real man or something...You swear it was important, I never really had to drop to Hard for any song. Even counting Satch Boogie from the orginal DLC. But if I had to drop to Hard, I just would, and some other people I think should aswell instead of using the excuse 'It's badly charted' just cause they can't finish it on Expert....When it's not badly charted at all.
  • AkuryuAkuryu Rising Star
    edited September 2010
    I have never, ever, cared if a song is "accurate." I don't even know what an "accurate" chart is supposed to look like, considering you are condensing guitar down to five colored buttons. All I care about is whether or not a song is fun. This one is not.
  • OsperoOspero Rising Star
    edited September 2010
    Akuryu;3997439 said:
    I have never, ever, cared if a song is "accurate." I don't even know what an "accurate" chart is supposed to look like, considering you are condensing guitar down to five colored buttons. All I care about is whether or not a song is fun. This one is not.
    Trust me, if they went too far off with the accuracy, you WOULD notice. Bass on Fat Kid, anyone? Most players of this game have developed a certain rhythm by now in how they play, and songs that challenge that perception will be bashed as inaccurate, even if they're not.

    That said, I deleted both of the latest Evile songs after trying once to play them. Accuracy be darned, these RB-G-RB-Y sequences just killed me stone dead, and this is from someone who has passed all the other Evile songs on the network on Expert guitar. But these two seemed a lot tougher than any of the others, and they simply weren't fun to play (and actually caused pain in my fret hand from trying). This was a very unpleasant surprise, to be honest, because I really enjoyed the other Evile songs, and none of them had anything remotely as annoying in them. Were there similar sequences in the other songs that were charted differently? If so, I'd ask to go back to that. Chord/single note switches are bad enough when the single note is the chord's anchor, but this was just horrendous. And for the record: Personal opinion, and no, I'm not hating on the difficulty, just on the new and (IMO) worse way these charts were handled.
  • EvileOLEvileOL Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    Thanks for all the feedback, this song was charted solely on the difficulty of this song alone, so shouldn't be reflected in many other songs, unless they're as hard as this. It's very difficult to condense into 5 buttons lots of different intervals whilst preserving motion and space, this track is just hard.

    Apologies if anyone was dissapointed, it's just how it was done!
  • StreamOfNathStreamOfNath Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    People can quit their whining now, there is nothing wrong with that chart.
  • mrpoopsymrpoopsy Opening Act
    edited September 2010
    StreamOfNath;3998803 said:
    People can quit their whining now, there is nothing wrong with that chart.
    as a paying customer I think we have the right to complain when something is ****ty compared to previous non ****ty tracks by the same people
  • ThunderCurlsThunderCurls Road Warrior
    edited September 2010
    mrpoopsy;4000943 said:
    as a paying customer I think we have the right to complain when something is ****ty compared to previous non ****ty tracks by the same people
    But it's not ****ty, it's just too difficult...nothing wrong with that.

    Practice.
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