Top 20 Phish Songs for Rock Band DLC (extremely long)

jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
edited March 2012 in Your Ultimate Setlist

WE DID IT!

WILSON CAME OUT AS DLC ON 6/2/09!


UPDATED: 11/4/08 - Added Top 5 Live Phish Songs - http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1528941#post1528941

Harmonies, Keys and Live songs have all joined Rock Band since I originally wrote this post. All three are phenomenal reasons to add more Phish to the game!!!

Original Post: 1/03/08

I am obsessed with Rock Band.

Every song I hear I imagine how it would play in Rock Band; I stay up all night on Monday waiting for DLC announcements; every conversation with a stranger quickly turns into “have you played Rock Band yet?”

As a casual Guitar Hero player who was planning to finally buy my own guitar with GHIII, I was absolutely blown-away when I heard the announcement for Rock Band. You mean I can also play drums and sing? You mean I can pretend to be Jonny Greenwood, Keith Moon or Ozzy Osbourne in the same game? This game was made for me and I couldn’t wait. I bought a 360 so I’d be ready for release.

Then it came: HMX struck a deal with The Grateful Dead for 18 songs. Now let me be clear that I would’ve bought the game anyway and enjoy a diverse array of music (just last night I was shocked by how much fun Move Along was to play) but when your bread and butter whose been largely ignored by other rhythm games announces they’re on the Rock Band bandwagon you get excited. The Dead was coming to Rock Band and my friends and I were stoked.

This isn’t a post about “where are the Dead songs?” however, but about the logical question that follows from any late-20’s fan of jam music: “where are the Phish songs?”

Phish would be unequivocally great for the game Rock Band. They’re musicianship is first rate, Trey plays a killer guitar solo on virtually every song and unlike many other jam bands, they took studio recording quite seriously and have recorded some phenomenal studio tracks that would translate perfectly to the game.

For awhile I accepted that Phish probably wouldn’t be in the game but then I came to my senses. They have to be in the game. They’re one of the most successful touring bands of all-time, they write amazing songs and most importantly, they are one of the only bands that could literally sell consoles with their inclusion. Outside of Led Zeppelin and The Beatles, how many bands could truly claim that sort of fan obsession? For evidence see this post!

Adding to that, that the game already has a built-in reference to Phish under the clothing feature, where it says “you can feel good about this hoodie” a blatant reference to my favorite song of all-time, Harry Hood, it is officially time for Phish to join the band roster of Rock Band.

Since I’ve seen a few casual requests for Phish before, but nothing huge, I have decided to truly breakdown their music and detail one fan’s opinion of which songs would best fit the game.

I have spent countless hours listening to their albums and discussing with friends what songs should be included and I feel confident in my choices. I plan to send these to HMX as well, but figured I should also post them on the boards for discussion.

I say that because I would love for this thread to become grounds for other Phish fans to voice their love of the band and their hopes of getting to play Phish live at ESG just once.

So without any further adieu, I’m going to strap on the old developer’s hat and truly breakdown Phish’s studio recording and decide which make the most sense for the game.

Obviously, with a band as musically unique as Phish, I needed to set some ground rules and here they are:

(i) The song has to be a studio recording to be considered. In order to have original mastered versions, which we all prefer, this simply has to be a rule with no questions asked. Along those lines, I’ve also outlawed non-official studio recordings, such as the Bearsville Session, the Wendell Studio sessions and Trey’s Senior Thesis, just because I have no idea the state of those master recordings.

This disqualifies many would-be great songs including: NICU, Runaway Jim, Mike’s>Hydrogen>Weekapaug, Halley’s Comet, Suzie Greenberg, All of Gamehendge, etc.

(ii) As painful as it is to say, instrumentals or near-instrumentals are highly penalized. As much as I’d like to say that David Bowie, Divided Sky, Run Like An Antelope, YEM, Harry Hood, Slave to the Traffic Light, First Tube, Piper and Guyute are all in the top-10 (wow, this list is more daunting than I expected), they simply wouldn’t work for Rock Band. They would be great for Guitar Hero, but not Rock Band. What is the vocalist supposed to do during these songs? Unless you’re playing/singing, these would be painfully boring, and a huge disappointment for non-phans.

Yes, you could say that non-phans shouldn’t download them, but that just doesn’t work in a commercial market. Many people buy all the DLC and after two plays, would be extremely disappointed every time Divided Sky or Slave came up in BWT.

Even songs like Reba that have enough phrases to make a vocal track, have huge sections with no lyrics that would bore everyone who hasn’t shared a tent with you at Deer Creek. If you don’t agree with me, throw in Lawn Boy, and honestly listen to Reba with a discerning ear for Rock Band. It just isn’t ideal for the game.

I’m sorry fellow fans, but these songs are either outlawed or penalized harshly (some of them, still might make the top 20, just not top 5) simply because I would expect HMX to do the exact same thing when selecting songs.

(iii) Page McConnell is my favorite member of Phish. Always has been and always will be. He has the best voice, is a phenomenal pianist and nothing hits me emotionally harder at a show than the end of Coil, Strange Design or the tearjerker that was Coventry’s Velvet Sea.

That said, songs where you feel like you’re truly missing his keys get docked. Obviously, he’s on every track and I actually like when he has isolated sections to relax to but sometimes it will just be too frustrating that you can’t play as him. The game is supposed to make you feel like you’re playing the song, not make you long for Rock Band 2 when you can play the piano sections. Listen to Bathtub Gin for the best example of what I refer to throughout this post as the “Page Penalty”.

(iv) Vocal harmonies also caused penalties of varying degrees for certain song, as I didn’t feel they’d translate well to the game. Songs like Rift and Limb by Limb were hurt badly by their responsive Trey/Page verses that I felt would hinder gameplay.

(v) The following rule was the most difficult for me but something I had to follow while making the list: throw out all baggage and misconceptions about the songs and just listen to them for Rock Band.

I spent twenty minutes the other night trying to convince my buddy Piper was in the top-5 songs for Rock Band. I mean, it has great drums, enough lyrics, and is one of my favorite songs, right? People will love it. Not so fast.

The next day I listened to it again and realized he was right. It takes forever to build, is partly mixed from a live version and even if I want to sing it most people won’t. No matter how much I prefer one song against another under different circumstances, this list is simply regarding the game and what would fit best. Nothing else applies.

So on that note, let’s start this bad boy off.

Comments

  • RyanAbrams77RyanAbrams77 Opening Act
    edited January 2008
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    Hey Ryan, thanks for the bump! I've been quite tempted to do some bumpage myself, but felt bad since I started the thread (although they disappear so fast around these parts).

    Since you brought up Reba, I just went back and re-listened and stand by my claim that it wouldn't work well in the game. While it's a phenomenal song, I just think the middle would sorta wander for the non-phan, unlike a song like Guyute that continually drives toward a climax. Although that final guitar solo is nothing short of unbelievable.

    Also, as silly as it sounds I don't trust little kids with the lyrics "bag it, tag it" over and over again, as that could turn into some seriously inappropriate hate mongering.

    That said, I know where you're coming from because if an official studio version of Harry Hood existed it would've cracked the top-5 on principle. Screw the rules, it's my favorite song and I would kill somebody to play virtual Trey on a monster Hood.
  • edited January 2008
    Great list.
    I don't think these could happen because they weren't studio recorded, but gotta give consideration to:

    Divided Sky
    Mike's Song
    You Enjoy Myself
    Weekapuag Groove


    Yeah, Wilson would be sick :D
  • RyanAbrams77RyanAbrams77 Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    My little list.

    Weekapaugh Groove.
    Julius would be fun...big band jazz comes to Rock Band =)
    Gotta Jibboo would be perfect.

    I agree heartily with everything else. Taste, Free, DWD, Sample, Character Zero.....I think I would simply quit life and devote myself to RB.
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, I've always planned to have Weekapaug play at my wedding, so that would be awesome.

    Alas, there is no studio version, but it is on the Wendell Studio sessions, an collection of unreleased studio tracks that you'll need to find a torrent of it. If you don't have these sessions get them, it has raw studio versions of Mike's > Hydrogen > Weekapaug, Suzy Greenberg, Possum, Harry Hood, Runaway Jim etc.

    In listening to the Weekapaug right now, it is fairly clean and if they have the masters it could definetly work for Rock Band.

    A Harmonix Weekapaug exclusive anyone? Ha, that would be amazing.
  • RyanAbrams77RyanAbrams77 Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    I think the biggest problem us Phanatics are going to encounter in trying to get Phish into RB is the fact that they are an acquired taste. I've tried to get many people into the band with no success, but every once an a while I catch someone with them on a mix or something and then a few months after that they are purchasing albums. It takes time to attune yourself to this kind of music.

    That being said, I think the medium of rhythm games would speed up the process significantly. I can only imagine how quickly I would have become so devoted to Phish if I could play Down With Disease with 3 of my friends.

    On another note, I loved seeing them live and listening to live recordings, but I am one of the minority guys who really likes the studio efforts. While the free form jazzy element of Phish is what makes them so special, a studio recording is as close as you're going to get to artist intention. I'd say I like different versions of some songs, but overall I always turn to the studios as the "master" recording of the song. Any thoughts?
  • hammy7971hammy7971 Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, although I perhaps my like to rock out to a 30 minute Tweezer recording or You Enjoy Myself, I think the only way for Phish to actually get into the game would be to use studio recordings. As far as acquired taste goes, however, they do have a ton of songs, as listed in the original post, that would be very rock band-esque, such as Down With Disease. Plus, the great thing about Phish is that not only would the songs be incredibly fun to sing, they all have amazing drum, bass and guitar parts...if only the game had a keyboard peripheral/backup vocals. My personal top songs for Rock Band would have to be, in no particular order:
    Free, Character Zero, Down With Disease, Axilla Part II, Sample In A Jar, Golgi Apparatus, Llama, Cavern, Chalkdust Torture, Birds of a Feather, and The Connection

    For Rock Band, I think the stuff from Hoist and Billy Breathes would work the best for that Rock sound.

    I would add You Enjoy Myself, David Bowie, Stash, and Guelah Papyrus, but those all probably have too much jam, not enough vocals.

    As for Reba, I'm pretty sure my friends and I couldn't help ourselves from singing "Wrap it, Tap it, Leave it at the clinic at the door"
  • DasBobaDasBoba Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    I'm not even a "phanatic", but I can say this is the greatest forum post in the history of rhythm gaming. Every time I hear Phish, I listen to all the parts individually, and think about how much fun these songs would be to play for everyone involved. Great list, lets keep this bumped.
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    DasBoba;246078 said:
    I'm not even a "phanatic", but I can say this is the greatest forum post in the history of rhythm gaming. Every time I hear Phish, I listen to all the parts individually, and think about how much fun these songs would be to play for everyone involved. Great list, lets keep this bumped.
    Thanks Das!

    Posts like this make me feel like my hard work wasn't for naught and I'm so glad you enjoyed it.

    Now, I'll just cross my fingers that the Dead DLC sells well and someone from HMX sees this thread!
  • MultiBeastMultiBeast Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    Yes!!! Phish would be awesome for Rock Band. I know that even those that aren't familiar with Phish will have a lot of fun playing their songs. All four instruments are a guaranteed great time. Can you imagine playing songs like "Poor Heart" or "Scent of a Mule"?!?

    One thing to consider is that a few of the songs already in Rock Band are long songs with lengthy instrumental parts (Green grasses, Foreplay/Long Time, etc.) are there haven't been any complaints so I don't think that's a problem there. I mean check out "And Justice for All." It's a 10 min. song with a lot of long instrumental sections. So, bring on songs like "Guyute" and "Maze." They can throw some tamborine sections in there anyway.

    Another thing is I believe all the master recordings of Lawn Boy have been lost so that would rule out any of those songs unless its a cover (yikes!). I may be wrong but I believe that's what I heard.

    Until then, I'm eagerly looking forward to the Dead pack (Franklin's Tower please!). I'm glad to see that there are people out there who share my obsession with Rock Band (and with Phish!) Rock on!
  • MultiBeastMultiBeast Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    Oh, my 20 Phish picks (in no particular order)

    1. Down with Disease
    2. Sample in a Jar
    3. Foam
    4. Cavern
    5. Stash
    6. It's Ice
    7. Scent of a Mule
    8. Free
    9. Guyute
    10. Taste
    11. Poor Heart
    12. Mango Song
    13. Maze
    14. Rift
    15. Limb by Limb
    16. Golgi Apparatus
    17. Chalkdust Torture
    18. Character Zero
    19. Billy Breathers (awesome solo)
    20. The Wedge
  • samtharsamthar Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    ...though I'd love to see a Phish release.

    Off the top of my head, here's a few shorter songs I'd like to see.

    Punch You in the Eye
    Famous Mockingbird
    AC/DC Bag
    My Friend, My Friend
    Mango Song
    Taste
    Glide
    Weigh
    Down With Disease
    Rift


    In an ideal world, REBA would be available. While I can do without the first 5-6 minutes (of any given live performance), everything from the slow, middle portion to the build-up and release into solo epitomize the beauty of Phish in my mind.
  • thakswetthakswet Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    Read the whole thing and agree 99%, we need You Enjoy Myself no matter what, just take out the bad word.

    I can't wait to play the Dead songs and would invest more than $1.99 in any Phish tune.
  • Ch0mpzCh0mpz Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    The best thread in the entire forums by far
  • bisqbisq Rising Star
    edited January 2008
    Great thread! This makes me want to go through their catalog and come up with a list as well. One thing that was mentioned and is true is that I don't think it really matters if there is a large instrumental section because honestly, I don't think the vocals are as important as the rest of the instruments in the band. Yes there should be some vocals, but if there is a lengthy instrumental break it shouldn't be a deal breaker. There are already a few songs with long instrumental sections in the game and nobody really complains (except people that can't beat GGAHT on guitar!). Plus if we are talking studio recordings, most of the these sections are really interesting throughout for all instruments involved and most any song will be under ten minutes. I know there are some longer live versions which have repetitive/boring sections for one or more instruments while one person takes the lead but for the most part the studio versions are tight. Plus, I noticed when doing solo vocal tour that the long ending of GGAHT was edited so I mean if people want to sing a song the developers could always do something like that. I guess this is really just a long reason to try to get Antelope in the game which would be sick but the fast build up at the end might not really be easy to chart or work that well. Even if it's not my favorite, I have to admit that Divided Sky would be the best near instrumental for the game. Maze would be good and isn't too long but relies on page a little too much. Limb by limb would work great but the call and response vocals would be kind of weird for one person to sing.


    To get right down to it, though, if you want my opinion as to what songs would work best overall and fit in with the spirit of the game it would EASILY be Down with Disease and Chalkdust Torture. Free would work, granted, but these songs are fun uptempo straight ahead rock with good guitar work. Once again, I think you are putting WAY too much weight on vocals. But on top of that, chalkdust's vocal track isn't really that weird or as difficult as you make it out to be...I mean look at some of the weird vocals in the game already (I get by, Timmy, etc.) I can get with most of the rest of your top 10 except I don't think bouncin' would work at all or be very fun play (or sing? Like you said how would that ending part work). As much as I love ghost, I'm just not sure the studio version is interesting enough and probably wouldn't be on my list. Character zero would work for the same reasons as DWD and chalkdust, I would just put it lower because I just don't think it's as good of a song. Sample works well and would get put just a notch above zero because of an excellent vocal part that is catchy and fun to sing. Birds is ok but not distinctive enough to put in front of zero, DWD, or chalkdust. Farmhouse is also overrated on your list, it wouldn't make my top 10 for various reasons. I just don't think it would be all that fun to play most importantly. Stash I LOVE and would probably put number three behind chalkdust and down with disease. It's a little long, a little weird, but the guitar part would instantly become one of the best and most difficult in the entire game as you kind of mentioned.

    Overall great post and interesting discussion... My vote is for Phish 3 pack of Down with disease, chalkdust, and stash with character zero and possibly golgi being honorable mentions. These aren't even close to my top 5 favorite phish songs (none of these are even in my top 5 except maybe dwd) but I do feel they would work best in the game.
  • ShadosShados Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    Someone really likes typing. o_O Good list, and I believe that writeups like these are what Harmonix really wanted when people are posting suggestions. While I'm not fully backing Phish, because I have tons of other bands to back for getting in, it'd be cool if they got in for the people who like them.
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    bisq;262136 said:
    Great thread! This makes me want to go through their catalog and come up with a list as well. One thing that was mentioned and is true is that I don't think it really matters if there is a large instrumental section because honestly, I don't think the vocals are as important as the rest of the instruments in the band. Yes there should be some vocals, but if there is a lengthy instrumental break it shouldn't be a deal breaker. There are already a few songs with long instrumental sections in the game and nobody really complains (except people that can't beat GGAHT on guitar!). Plus if we are talking studio recordings, most of the these sections are really interesting throughout for all instruments involved and most any song will be under ten minutes. I know there are some longer live versions which have repetitive/boring sections for one or more instruments while one person takes the lead but for the most part the studio versions are tight. Plus, I noticed when doing solo vocal tour that the long ending of GGAHT was edited so I mean if people want to sing a song the developers could always do something like that. I guess this is really just a long reason to try to get Antelope in the game which would be sick but the fast build up at the end might not really be easy to chart or work that well. Even if it's not my favorite, I have to admit that Divided Sky would be the best near instrumental for the game. Maze would be good and isn't too long but relies on page a little too much. Limb by limb would work great but the call and response vocals would be kind of weird for one person to sing.


    To get right down to it, though, if you want my opinion as to what songs would work best overall and fit in with the spirit of the game it would EASILY be Down with Disease and Chalkdust Torture. Free would work, granted, but these songs are fun uptempo straight ahead rock with good guitar work. Once again, I think you are putting WAY too much weight on vocals. But on top of that, chalkdust's vocal track isn't really that weird or as difficult as you make it out to be...I mean look at some of the weird vocals in the game already (I get by, Timmy, etc.) I can get with most of the rest of your top 10 except I don't think bouncin' would work at all or be very fun play (or sing? Like you said how would that ending part work). As much as I love ghost, I'm just not sure the studio version is interesting enough and probably wouldn't be on my list. Character zero would work for the same reasons as DWD and chalkdust, I would just put it lower because I just don't think it's as good of a song. Sample works well and would get put just a notch above zero because of an excellent vocal part that is catchy and fun to sing. Birds is ok but not distinctive enough to put in front of zero, DWD, or chalkdust. Farmhouse is also overrated on your list, it wouldn't make my top 10 for various reasons. I just don't think it would be all that fun to play most importantly. Stash I LOVE and would probably put number three behind chalkdust and down with disease. It's a little long, a little weird, but the guitar part would instantly become one of the best and most difficult in the entire game as you kind of mentioned.

    Overall great post and interesting discussion... My vote is for Phish 3 pack of Down with disease, chalkdust, and stash with character zero and possibly golgi being honorable mentions. These aren't even close to my top 5 favorite phish songs (none of these are even in my top 5 except maybe dwd) but I do feel they would work best in the game.
    Nice!

    I made this post hoping someone would break it down and critique it, and I'm so glad you did. Not to mention your voted 3 pack came in 2nd, 5th and 6th in my list, so I think we're in a similar mindset for how it would work.

    Just a few reactions:

    - I agree that Boucin' would not be good for Rock Band. It's also the only song I've seen in non-phans giant song list requests and I've seen it twice. It's there most famous song and for that reason alone it's a possibility. Think of tenth place, as last in my the top-10, having already decided I couldn't leave it out of the top-10 due to it's recognizability.

    - Maybe I am overrating Phish's vocal track, but I think you're underrating 'popularity'. If you go through what DLC has been picked for bands, it's almost always their top downloaded songs on iTunes. Those are the songs that other people would buy. Obviously as phans, we would both buy Farmhouse (which is admittedly slow) but so would everyone that made it the #1 downloaded Phish song on iTunes.

    - Free would be amazing to play. It's got "good guitar work" like the "rockers", but it's also got this visceral feeling that would translate great to the game. The lights, the fake characters etc. it's just much easier to picture the animations for "Free" than a song like "Chalkdust". Seriously, go listen to the studio version while picturing that Tokyo venue and tell me "Free" wouldn't be awesome.

    Finally, if the songs ever do come out for download, millions of people will judge Phish solely on their DLC tracks. It will be the only songs by them they know and I think it's important that the DLC paints my favorite band in a positive light. I want the doubters to be surprised by how good the music is and I just think as far as studio recordings go, "Free" paints Phish in a better light than "Chalkdust".
  • HanksNBeanzHanksNBeanz Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    I didn't think there was a market for my favorite band of all time but now I can see there are other heads out there that wanta keep phishing. I hope someday Harmonix will get them onboard. I've seen Phish prob 25 or so times in my life and been to all the late summer festivals. I totally agree that this could sell way more units like he says cause.... honestly....... we can't tour anymore...... and we all had to go out and actually get jobs. What a bummer that was.


    But, seriously Harmonix.... if you bring them... they will come! Keep on Phishin guys!
    P.S. We just need some more jamband's in general..... or at all really.
  • billsbaker14billsbaker14 Unsigned
    edited January 2008
  • MultiBeastMultiBeast Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    great discussion! I really believe non-phans would eat up Phish DLC. A lot of people complain about repetitive guitar parts and chords on the songs that are out there. As soon as these people see the youtube videos of the rock band charts for songs like "stash" or "you enjoy myself" (if these songs were ever released), they would go nuts and snatch 'em up in an instant. Not only do these songs provide challenges for people who like riffs and soloing (on any instrument), but they are also fun.
  • cdoe001cdoe001 Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    PHAN OR NOT... LISTEN AND IT'S GREAT.... Farmhouse is a song about a note left in a cabin from a maid.... I had to read that in the book of Phish cause you would never guess that song was writen about some thing so simple... FARMHOUSE Should come out before any of the dead other then uncle johns band.... (My favorite Jam Band Song Ever.....)

    How bout some TEA LEAF GREEN TOO....
  • MultiBeastMultiBeast Opening Act
    edited January 2008
    Bring on "farmhouse"! bring on "stash"! bring on "bouncin"! I don't care. As long as its got the name phish attached to it, i'll be happy. :)
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    Multi, every single time I see a post from you I unconsciously start singing "Tela". Thought you'd get a kick out of that.
  • MultiBeastMultiBeast Opening Act
    edited January 2008
  • dmaximusdmaximus Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    This is the greatest thread possible in a rock band forum. Thanks to jr174200 for the excellent, in depth opening post. I tend to agree with much of what bisq said in his post. I think you may have put too much of a penalty on long instrumental sections and maybe too much emphasis on the quality of vocals. (Is it really a detrement to Character Zero that it contains the Mulkaey line?) Also you might put a lilttle too much emphasis on the popularity of the songs and its signifigance. It's a valid point that for most other bands you'd want the most popular songs because the most number of people will know those songs and then want to download them. I'm not sure that holds true for a band like phish, where their most popular song ever barely cracked the top 20 on the rock chart... in the case of phish I don't see the names (or name-recgonition) of the songs being the biggest draw. The quality of the songs and the quality of the note chart is going to be the biggest draw.

    I don't have enough time to break down your list of 20, hopefully I will find some time to sit down and make something similar to what you did. Let's just say I don't know how you could not include a single track from Rift (The Wedge, Mound, It's Ice, My Friend My Friend)

    But let's focus on the impossible task of making a Phish 3 Pack. First we need to decide what the best mix of songs would be that gives people the best overall representation of phish. I think there should be one song from the following three categories:
    1)Popular - Obviously this would be the popular songs that non fans maybe recgonize by name or it least by hearing a short clip of the song. Included in here would be:
    Fee
    Bouncin
    Sparkle
    Down w/ Disease
    Free
    Birds of a Feather
    Heavy Things
    Scents and Subtle Sounds (maybe, I mean they did play it on Letterman... ultimately it's a moot point anyway, because it's not making the cut to the 3 pack)


    2) Rockers - the name of the category is self explanatory. The songs we all know where they just rock. Bonus points for memorable Trey solos (i.e. the beginning to the DwD solo or the beginning to the Character Zero solo). Songs include:
    David Bowie
    Antelope
    Cavern
    Chalkdust
    Maze
    Julius
    Down w/ Disease (songs can be both rocking and popular)
    Sample in a Jar
    Axilla (although it would just not be the same with Part 2's lyrics...)
    Character Zero
    Prince Caspian
    Piper
    First Tube
    Mexican Cousin
    46 Days


    3) Impressive - the songs that showcase Phish technical mastery.
    You Enjoy Myself
    Divided Sky
    Foam
    David Bowie
    Fluffhead + Travels
    Reba
    Stash
    It's Ice
    Guyute

    I probably could have added a couple more in here, songs that don't have as much drawn out instrumental sequences and that aren't straight rockers, but are impressive to listen to like Golgi, Glide, Taste, Theme From the Bottom, Limb by Limb... etc... (actually pretty much every song that doesn't fall into one of the two categories above)

    So ok, let's take one from each category and make a 3 pack. I think you have to take Down with Disease from the first group, it has the most memorable Trey solo, plus the bass and the funness of the singing all the falsetto "Stop Stop Stop". The 2nd group is the toughest selection out of them all. I think I have to go with Character Zero, just edging out over Chalkdust. I could really go either way with this one but to me it just seems like Character Zero is a more accessible song to play (easier lyrics that you sing instead of speak, fun group build up in the beginning, great solo). And then to me there's really no debate in the third group. If you're going to have a group of Phish songs that you want to showcase their talent with, you have to include You Enjoy Myself, there's just no way around it, sure the singer might get bored... but they'll be able to sit back and just enjoy the music.

    So my three pack is Down with Disease, Character Zero, and You Enjoy Myself
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    Dmaximus,

    Ha, I have no idea how I skipped all of Rift since it's my favorite album but alas that happened. At one point I had My Friend, My Friend very high, but it just kept falling on the list as I went along. Obviously Mound, Wedge, Maze and Sparkle could work as well, but alas they just didn't make the cut which was far more restrictive than I anticipated.

    In terms of this concept of my list overrating vocals, there probably is something to that. While I'm not that great at them, I usually have to sing vocals in our band and probably do possess some bias. However, I didn't outlaw songs simply because of the vocals (see Zero and Chalkdust, which are both still highly ranked) I just needed to articulate my concerns about certain songs while trying to figure out which ones were "best". And in the end, Free and DwD had by far the least concerns.

    I only outlawed songs when I truly didn't think the songs would work for Rock Band. If you take songs like Won't Get Fooled Again, Green Grass and High Tides or my personal favorite Foreplay/Long Time, while they have large instrumental sections they still have a lot of sensible singable phrases. Obviously the epic Phish songs wouldn't have that many phrases or make nearly as much sense, but you literally can't play songs like Slave or Divided Sky, and songs like Guyute or YEM, while musically amazing, are simply terrible for the vocalists. No matter how hard you try to avoid it, YEM was number three on my list at first, they are.

    That said, would I be happier with YEM as DLC than Farmhouse? HELL YES! There is no studio track, I'd rather play in Rock Band that Phish's most played live song. I was just trying to honestly rank the songs using criteria I would expect the developers at HMX to use.

    My completely selfish top-5 would probably be Guyute, DwD, Antelope, YEM and Piper. Unfortunately, I know that would never ever happen, so I wanted to articulate why DwD or Free would be a much better fit than Bouncin' or Heavy Things.
  • dmaximusdmaximus Unsigned
    edited January 2008
    I know, you're right, you just can't have YEM in there. It doesn't make any sense from a Rock Band standpoint. And most of the songs like that have very little lyrical content so you do have to throw some of them out. But I think out of the complex-type song group, there's a couple that have enough lyrical content that they would work in rock band. (Because when you have a song like Green Grass, which consists of 1:30 opening instrumental -> 1 min of singing-> 2:30 instrumental -> 1 min of singing -> 4 minute instrumental, that's 8 minutes of playing and 2 minutes of singing... like And Justice for all which has 2:15 of instrumental -> 2:30 of singing -> 3 min instrumental -> 2 min of singing... 5:15 instrumental, 4:30 singing... it shows they're not afraid to put in long songs that have just some lyrical content)

    So what I'm saying is I think there's a couple of epics that can get in, you have songs like:
    Reba (2:30 Singing -> 8:30 instrumental -> 1:30 singing)
    Maybe the instrumental in the middle is too much to get this one in, but I'm still voting for it, because it's pretty much my favorite phish song. Plus they actually jam this out in the studio, which doesn't happen on too many other tracks...
    Stash (1:45 instrumental -> :40 singing -> 1:45 instrumental -> 1:15 singing -> 1:30 instrumental -> :30 singing)
    This might have the best chance out of all the songs to get in. It was listed on Rolling Stones 100 greatest guitar solos, so it has musical acclaim behind it.
    It's Ice ( :30 instrumental -> 2:15 singing -> 5 min instrumental -> :30 singing)
    A bit of an underdog in this category, but man this song is so insane on everyone's part, especially mike's bass. Plus with page singing, this could be one of the tougher singing songs in Phish's catalog. This would be a beast of a song just because there's no easy parts. I really, really like this song and it never gets enough respect. This would be the ultimate respect booster, let the whole world realize just how amazing phish was. I'm going with this song.

    Guyute (1 min singing -> 6 min instrumental -> :45 singing -> :45 instrumental)
    Originally I thought this was a great candidate, but that is a pretty long middle section. But as you spoke about earlier, it would be so sweet if this was in... man I could imagine hitting the climax note, man that would be awesome...

    But ok out of all these, Stash is the most balanced song, plus the great guitar work probably makes it the most likely epic candidate. However my vote goes with It's Ice.

    Here's a couple more three packs:
    My Dream 3 Pack: YEM, Divided Sky, Reba
    My Ideal 3 Pack (from songs that are likely Rock Band canidates): Down with Disease, Character Zero, It's Ice
    My "If I worked at Harmonix, this is what I would push for, because it is the most likely to be accepted" 3 Pack: Down with Disease, Character Zero, Stash

    haha, I spent way to much time on this post... I can't believe I just brought out my studio Phish CD's and timed songs... only Phish could get me to do that, what a great band... which is precisely why they need to be in the game!
  • jr174200jr174200 Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    Great breakdowns of the epic songs! I did similar work on the Phish tunes, but not on other Rock Band songs which is definitely helpful.

    Clearly, you now see where I was coming from with some of my choices, as I also found Stash to be by far the most accessible of the complex-type songs.

    In terms of It's Ice, I'll be honest when I say that I was initially threatened by it's length and never really gave it a fair shot. While I love the song, I just didn't think of it in the same breath as the heaviest of heavy-hitters and passed it off due to the lull from 5:22 to 6:22 (exactly one minute, that's weird).

    That said, I re-listened and I was wrong. It should have been in the top 20. The "lull" would work like Won't Get Fooled Again, with a better lift-off, and it would allow the vocalist to do a mean percussive solo. The moments before the "lull" are just plain evil and Page is simply a stronger vocalist than Trey.
    dmaximus;274321 said:

    haha, I spent way to much time on this post... I can't believe I just brought out my studio Phish CD's and timed songs... only Phish could get me to do that, what a great band... which is precisely why they need to be in the game!

    Dude, imagine how long I took on the first post! My girlfriend was ready to kill me by the time I finally posted it.

    My process was as follows:

    - Listen to Phish studio albums on ipod shuffle for over a week while thinking about Rock Band
    - Go through the entire catalouge of studio songs and pick my favorites
    - Write individual paragraphs for the 30-35 best fits, while listening to the song on repeat
    - Actually ranking the songs by playing songs back to back to compare them
    - Sending it to friends for feedback
    - Posting it on the boards
    - Hit refresh on the thread every two mintues to see if anyone responded

    Viva la Phish!
  • TheSpammerTheSpammer Opening Act
    edited January 2008
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  • DethBoxxDethBoxx Road Warrior
    edited January 2008
    I would like Maze and Stash and Llama. These three would be perfect for RB. Mound would be pretty awesome as well.
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