2 pro guitars parts

GRRRUMBLEGRRRUMBLE Opening Act
edited May 2011 in Rock Band
Will there be a time when songs that have 2 guitar players will have both parts available ?
Most likely if I was to sit in with a friends band as accompany they would only allow for rythm. Learning those parts would be a good thing.
Also some bands had a marty and dave or a kirk and james both difficult to play parts and necessary to be seperate roles.

Comments

  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    It's already happened on RBN (well, not pro obviously, but GRYBO). The two songs by Rodrigo y Gabriela are originally by two guitarists, but one is charted as a bass track.

    I don't think official HMX DLC ever will go that direction, though. When RBN 2.0 goes live I don't know if they'll tolerate a second guitar charting as a keyboard part. I doubt official-HMX DLC will ever go that direction though.
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited January 2011
    thatmarkguy;4263555 said:
    I don't think official HMX DLC ever will go that direction, though. When RBN 2.0 goes live I don't know if they'll tolerate a second guitar charting as a keyboard part.
    Pick a song in which you have to alt-strum ("Thrasher" is probably the most ridiculous one). Now play it on a keyboard (I know you can play key parts on guitar, but that shouldn't be the expected way to play a part marked "Keys"). Now add the fact that they'd have to do a pro keys chart.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited January 2011
    SirDavidTLynch;4263594 said:
    Now add the fact that they'd have to do a pro keys chart.
    Actually pro keys are entirely optional (as is regular keys, if you wanted to do a pro chart but no 5-lane chart for some reason). I agree with your point though, charting guitar to keys is a road that leads to bad places.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    Oscarvarium;4263629 said:
    Actually pro keys are entirely optional (as is regular keys, if you wanted to do a pro chart but no 5-lane chart for some reason). I agree with your point though, charting guitar to keys is a road that leads to bad places.

    This is not true. If you have regular keys, you are required to have Pro keys. And vice versa.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited January 2011
    FairwoodStudios;4264082 said:
    This is not true. If you have regular keys, you are required to have Pro keys. And vice versa.

    Are you sure about that? The blog post state "All of these features will be optionally supported by RBN2, and each song may implement as many or as few of them as the creators wish" and I'm sure someone has asked if Pro keys charts are compulsory and been told they aren't.

    EDIT: Apparently I was mistaken, they are compulsory. *shrug*
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    Oscarvarium;4264121 said:
    Are you sure about that? The blog post state "All of these features will be optionally supported by RBN2, and each song may implement as many or as few of them as the creators wish" and I'm sure someone has asked if Pro keys charts are compulsory and been told they aren't.

    EDIT: Apparently I was mistaken, they are compulsory. *shrug*

    Yea, I thought they were optional too for a while, but Nord cleared it up. Which slightly sucks when you've got a super-tough keys part to try and transcribe...
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    SirDavidTLynch;4263594 said:
    Pick a song in which you have to alt-strum ("Thrasher" is probably the most ridiculous one). Now play it on a keyboard (I know you can play key parts on guitar, but that shouldn't be the expected way to play a part marked "Keys"). Now add the fact that they'd have to do a pro keys chart.

    The pro-keys point is noteworthy.

    Doing an alt-strum part on the keyboard isn't that hard, though. There are two sets of keys that register as GRYBO on the keyboard. A part fast enough that you need to alt strum, you can use both hands and 'twiddle' between the right hand key and the left hand of the same key.

    Now, alt strums that entail a lot of chord changes (Antibodies, I'm looking at you) would be tough, for sure. But for pure-speed single-key or single-chord alt strums, it's actually not bad on a keyboard.
  • GRRRUMBLEGRRRUMBLE Opening Act
    edited January 2011
    I'd thank yyou for the reply however much is misunderstood here.
    You want keys I want 2 different guitar player parts.
    You invested much into keys.
    I listen to many bands with no keys but 2 destinct guitarists.
    For example a song by megadeth called back in the day.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4268091 said:
    I'd thank yyou for the reply however much is misunderstood here.
    You want keys I want 2 different guitar player parts.
    You invested much into keys.
    I listen to many bands with no keys but 2 destinct guitarists.
    For example a song by megadeth called back in the day.

    Will. Not. Happen.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4268091 said:
    I'd thank yyou for the reply however much is misunderstood here.
    ...by you.
    GRRRUMBLE;4268091 said:
    You want keys I want 2 different guitar player parts.
    I didn't say I wanted keys. I suggested that the addition of a 'keyboard' track opens a theoretical possibility of using that track and audio stream as a second guitar part. Much like how Rodrigo y Gabriela used the bass tracks for a second guitar part.

    Now, the fact that RBN charting would require a key part to have a pro-key part as well makes it exceedingly unlikely. But you grossly misunderstood what was being suggested. What was being suggested was exactly what you wanted - for a chart to exist that would represent the second guitar part of a song. Theoretically, this could be done via a keys chart which you could then play on guitar.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited January 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4268091 said:
    I'd thank yyou for the reply however much is misunderstood here.
    You want keys I want 2 different guitar player parts.
    You invested much into keys.
    I listen to many bands with no keys but 2 destinct guitarists.
    For example a song by megadeth called back in the day.
    What they were suggesting was using the keys slot to chart the (for instance) rhythm guitar on songs that don't have keys.

    In the past there has been songs that didn't have bass that they charted the second guitar to bass(instead of just leaving that slot blank).

    They were suggesting doing the same thing with the keys slot for songs that don't have keys or piano, but I don't think it would work right.
  • GRRRUMBLEGRRRUMBLE Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    So then why would any band with a copyright to a song accept the changes and allow their co writers and friend role to be ignored in gameplay?
    When playstation releases their tablet the idea that each player would use their tablet as an individual
    lane chart possibly on a stand without the clutter of all the other band players music is where I'd like to see things go.
    I want to see cover bands train to be good. I really don't care that much about score as I do about this system as a tool for teaching and learning .
    So If the correct role is a non scoring for gameplay but still available as a choice is fine with me.
    While someone else is laying down the lead I can continue the rythm groove without interfering with their score.

    I have always had trouble with left to right reading tab.
    I had to learn riffs from the end notes and add to the riff a bit more each time. Now that there is pro guitar coming right at me theres no real learning issues.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann Stormtrooper
    edited May 2011
    They typically chart both the lead guitar and the rhythm guitar to Guitar. If a song came along with zero bass part, and so much of a lead part that there were no gaps (like the Rodrigo and Gabriella tracks), then they might consider charting the rhythm guitar part to bass. I don't think they'd ever chart non-bass parts to the bass chart when an actual bass part is present, though.

    And this is kind of the wrong forum since the Rock Band Network doesn't allow for Pro Guitar at all. People are talking about keys in this thread because there has been discussion of the possibility of RBN authors charting rhythm guitar parts onto the keys chart when no real keys are present (much like they chart extra keys parts to guitar when no guitar is present) but this again is a moot point since there couldn't be Pro Guitar for it.
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited May 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4400165 said:
    So then why would any band with a copyright to a song accept the changes and allow their co writers and friend role to be ignored in gameplay?
    While we're at it, why would any band license their songs to the old Guitar Hero games with no drums, vocals, or keys? Could it be because it's just how the game is and only the most pretentious bands would make such a ridiculous demand as to completely redesign the game without taking into consideration how accessible or fun an extra guitar part would be, or whether it's worth reworking the whole engine so that a full band would be flat-out impossible just so that an extra guitarist can stand around doing nothing for thousands of songs.
  • GRRRUMBLEGRRRUMBLE Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    LuigiHann;4400190 said:

    And this is kind of the wrong forum since the Rock Band Network doesn't allow for Pro Guitar at all.

    If the creator and charting is the wrong place for this could you please direct me to the correct forum?

    And to you SirDavidTLynch your choice to highlight that particular quote impresses me that you get it - there are people . They continue to produce legacy but not the precise pro upgrades, likely a band choice.
    The ps3 players have been out of purchase ability for sometime now and and the store owners dust off unsold pro guitar mustang boxes.
  • RealMessiahRealMessiah Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    2 Pro Guitar Parts?

    Does RBN even do one Pro Guitar part?
  • powerofyates2powerofyates2 Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4400165 said:
    So then why would any band with a copyright to a song accept the changes and allow their co writers and friend role to be ignored in gameplay?

    Because it's just a video game, and they are getting a big check for it. Most of them probably never even play their songs in the game to even know this. Nor do they probably care that much.
  • ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    I believe an HMX employee stated at one time that you can chart two guitars if there is no bass guitar.
  • thefncrowthefncrow Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    Highly unlikely. The guitar part in the game is not a simple transcription of what the lead guitar plays, but an amalgamation of all of the guitar parts in the song. When you have things with 2 guitar parts, the guitar track isn't just 1 of the 2 guitar parts, but a mixture of both.

    Look at Hangar 18. Two guitar players trading solos back and forth, but in RB, it's all compressed onto a single guitar track.

    Your best bet would be if sometime down the line RBN added pro guitar support, because then maybe someone might do something along the lines of the Rodrigo y Gabriela tracks with pro support, where the "bass" part is just a second guitar part. I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing that in official DLC, though.
  • ZiggyXNAMVPZiggyXNAMVP Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    From what i've read the people who chart the pro songs look at live videos n stuff of the people playing it.
  • GRRRUMBLEGRRRUMBLE Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    Before they get too heavily into pro guitar maybe look at the possability of using the 17 fret channel
    for rythm and 24 for lead. Maybe in the future offer a longer neck for the mustang as a purchase option.
    Seems they left it a possability by having the 2 neck lengths. It's just not selectable or written as distictly different guitarists.
  • mayhem117mayhem117 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    I think Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground is lead and rhythm guitar for guitar and bass. Interestingly the bass track still only uses the top 4 strings
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited May 2011
    GRRRUMBLE;4403937 said:
    Before they get too heavily into pro guitar maybe look at the possability of using the 17 fret channel
    for rythm and 24 for lead. Maybe in the future offer a longer neck for the mustang as a purchase option.
    Seems they left it a possability by having the 2 neck lengths. It's just not selectable or written as distictly different guitarists.
    The Mustang, Squier, and basic guitar all use the same audio stem, people would have to buy the crappy fake guitar if they want to play rhythm or the expensive, hard to find guitar and MIDI Pro to play lead (and what if the lead part doesn't go past the 17th fret?). It would be impossible for lead and rhythm guitarists to play together, and there would only be one high score for both charts.
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