RBN possibilities for PS3?

PolitePolite Unsigned
edited January 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Hi,

Sorry if this has been done to death, but I was reading an article on arsTechnica about Valve's Steam on PS3, and how Microsoft was too rigid on their stance with xbox live to bring it to 360. It made me think about how that seemed like the complete opposite stance between the platforms for the RBN.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/portal-on-playstation-3.ars

I guess it just comes down to something that is purely political, but I thought I would bring it up, if Harmonix can approach Sony again, given the precedent of Steam of PS3, there might be a better response.

I would dearly love to have the full RBN working on PS3.

Comments

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    The reason for the beef with Valve and MS is because MS insists on charging for submission and release of title updates. Valve feels this is unreasonable since they feel it likely that they would need to do this quite often and they don't want to pay.

    The situation with RBN and full compatibility with the PS3 still needs SONY to develop a third-party, user content creation system with the same general functionality that the XNA/App Hub service has for Microsoft. Whatever Steam is, XNA it is not.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited January 2011
    Santa Claustrophobia;4263727 said:

    The situation with RBN and full compatibility with the PS3 still needs SONY to develop a third-party, user content creation system with the same general functionality that the XNA/App Hub service has for Microsoft. Whatever Steam is, XNA it is not.
    Not to mention that even if Sony were to do that, RBN is now completely set up to work with XNA and I can't imagine Harmonix would up sticks and jump over to a Sony system.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    Oscarvarium;4264125 said:
    Not to mention that even if Sony were to do that, RBN is now completely set up to work with XNA and I can't imagine Harmonix would up sticks and jump over to a Sony system.

    Jump? Who said anything about that? With a few tweaks, the authoring software would be able to produce content that SONY would find acceptable to their Standards. It would simply be a matter of the charting group making sure everything was correct on the individual console.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited January 2011
    Santa Claustrophobia;4264250 said:
    Jump? Who said anything about that? With a few tweaks, the authoring software would be able to produce content that SONY would find acceptable to their Standards. It would simply be a matter of the charting group making sure everything was correct on the individual console.
    I'm pretty sure the current software produces content that Sony are happy with. I don't know of any tracks that have been refused by them due to being substandard. HMX have said that the porting process to PS3 is mostly automatic so it seems that there are no significant technical differences between the two consoles as far as RBN is concerned.

    My point is that RBN is set up to work through XNA, making use of the upload-playtest-peer review framework which was entirely developed by Microsoft. I'm thinking there isn't really any reason for Harmonix to also support a similar Sony system that may be developed (and to be honest, not much reason for Sony to do that either). If Sony want more RBN songs on their system they can increase their hard limit.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    Oscarvarium;4265568 said:
    I'm pretty sure the current software produces content that Sony are happy with. I don't know of any tracks that have been refused by them due to being substandard. HMX have said that the porting process to PS3 is mostly automatic so it seems that there are no significant technical differences between the two consoles as far as RBN is concerned.

    However, the process for creating them to begin with makes them only for 360. SONY has their own set of standards for what metadata information each track must have. The current process only makes the songs viable for the 360. Porting them over means HMX has to take the raw data and apply the correct info.

    The song charts are probably fine, but you couldn't just submit them to SONY and get away with it. RBN is set up to work with XNA, but as I said, SONY would have to create a system that is functionally similar. Then HMX (or whomever) could update the authoring software to append the chart data with the correct SONY information. At that point it would simply be up the the chart group to submit the song data twice.

    The amount of work that HMX would have to do to get RBN working on the PS3 in the same way it does now for the 360 is minimal. But the system has to be created first before any modifications are made.

    It would also be foolish of HMX to not support a SONY created XNA program. Right now, the costs for HMX to be involved in XNA are minimal. Any sales they get are practically all profit. There is no threat that RBN will be pulled from the 360 so long as it's profitable. However, the songs on the PS3 are probably profitable only because SONY set up a limit.

    HMX incurs costs to obtain the rights to port the songs to other systems and then on top of that, there is the submission fee to SONY. And if anything goes wrong during the submission (like, say, SONY doesn't like something in the metadata), then HMX has to pay again to re-submit. For XNA, HMX pays nothing on submission costs. The only part of the deal is that profits are split three ways. So HMX would be foolish to not support a SONY created XNA-style system.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited January 2011
    Yeah but wouldn't HMX be in the exact same boat when they have to port over the PSN exlcusive RBN tracks to the 360?
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    'Have to'?

    Also, that presumes that people would intentionally decide not to double (well, increase by half...) the potential market for all songs. All things being equal, the costs to submit to both are still the same.

    Obviously this is going under the premise that anything SONY creates works just like XNA does. I believe Jawillroy (I think, could be somebody else.) has expressed a desire to re-release his stuff with RBN 2.0. Even though they aren't really generating sales. So the costs involved must be minimal to be willing to submit low performing tracks.

    In a situation where PSN support for RBN is exactly the same as it is for XNA, it really doesn't make sense to make things exclusive on purpose.

    But actually, the biggest issue is probably continuity. I would suspect that HMX would require that all charts be exactly the same across platforms. So, potentially, chart testing might be done on only one console and then the final, approved chart is simply submitted to the other. In that case, there might be limited exclusivity.

    Personally speaking, I couldn't care less about the concept of exclusive console tracks. It wouldn't be any different than any other item on the PSN that I can't buy, so why worry about it?
  • PolitePolite Unsigned
    edited January 2011
    They've proven that the RBN is worth their time to invest in. Maybe making a copy of how the system works for the 360 is not feasible for the PS3, but surely that doesn't mean that a similar system couldn't be created, which accomodate both systems and increase the content, as not every person interested in developing songs for this system use a 360, presumably.

    If the limitation is purely based upon playtesting your songs before publishing them to the community for appraisal, then surely that could be handled with a content management system. You create the song on your PC, as you already do, and when you are ready for a playtest, you upload it to your RBN developer account, and use your linked credentials to be able to access the song when logged in to the RBN on your system of choice.

    Though maybe they feel it's not worth the time, or the change in framework. Maybe they are right, who am I to say.
  • PolitePolite Unsigned
    edited January 2011
    Santa Claustrophobia;4265839 said:

    But actually, the biggest issue is probably continuity. I would suspect that HMX would require that all charts be exactly the same across platforms. So, potentially, chart testing might be done on only one console and then the final, approved chart is simply submitted to the other. In that case, there might be limited exclusivity.

    With these kinds of systems the data between consoles is the same, and should play the same, as the engines on each system take that data and perform the actions required to replay them on each system. Much the same way that an mp3, or a avi is the same data played on various systems.

    Though there is likely a wrapper around the data for each system which lets it be installed on that system, but that's a matter of deployment, not the data itself.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited January 2011
    Polite;4271473 said:
    Though there is likely a wrapper around the data for each system which lets it be installed on that system, but that's a matter of deployment, not the data itself.

    There is. Each track contains data that identifies it as unique from other data and as being valid for use on the intended system. Which is why there would likely be a potential delay between the song appearing on one system before another.

    And RBN takes advantage of XNA. Without XNA, RBN doesn't exist. HMX is not going to create an infrastructure on their own to run on the PS3, they are leaving that up to SONY. If SONY creates a system that works similar to XNA, then I'm sure HMX will take steps to make the creation process work with it.

    But until that day, it simply won't happen.
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited January 2011
    Santa Claustrophobia;4265839 said:
    I believe Jawillroy (I think, could be somebody else.) has expressed a desire to re-release his stuff with RBN 2.0. Even though they aren't really generating sales. So the costs involved must be minimal to be willing to submit low performing tracks.
    I don't think I'm talking out of school in saying that this probably isn't going to be the case with many RBN outfits: Markleford and I are collaborating, so we have a pretty low cost operation (that still pays squat.) All the major expenses are already paid, so it's basically just sweat. Mainly Markleford's. So it's a pretty good deal, for me.
Sign In or Register to comment.