Need XNA license to audition?

snigglesniggle Opening Act
edited February 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Sorry if this has been posted before, couldn't find the information anywhere.

Do you actually need an XNA license to just be able to use audition mode and NOT submit songs to RBN for sale?

Over the weekend I got excited about the prospect of authoring drum charts for random songs that I know will never come out in Rock Band, and based on the information I read it seemed like you needed a license, so I bought one without even trying to transfer a song via Magma in audition mode. Did I actually need to do that?

Comments

  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    Yep, you need an XNA subscription. You don't need a paid one if you qualify for Dreamspark, and if you're not planning to upload they'd both be equivalent for you.

    (Never say never though, if there's a band you want in the game, try and convince them. You'd be surprised.)
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    Ah ok, I was confused because I didn't actually need to do anything to my XBox, but I assume my XBL account is all tied in and Audition mode would've given me an error if I didn't have an XNA license?
  • jeccanekojeccaneko Headliner
    edited February 2011
    XNA is tied to your XBL gamertag, similar to how a Gold subscription would be.
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    Ok, thanks guys! And FairwoodStudios, I'm talking about songs like Radiohead - Paranoid Android. It might come out some day, but I'd love to chart it and play it now.

    Speaking of, are there any repositories of midi files that can be imported into Reaper and timed up with my own copies of studio versions of other well-known tracks that may never come out? Would be great to play those in audition mode.

    Thanks!
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited February 2011
    See now you're talking about customs, which is a no no.

    Yes it exists, but talking about it on the RB forums would be like going to Sony and asking how you could bootleg their movies.
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    I don't see why... I'm just asking for the midi track, not the song itself. I can't see there being anything wrong with that.
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    Making customs is a violation of copy right laws
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    I'm not trying to be an ass, but can someone direct me to information on why this is illegal or where it says it violates copyright? The midi files used in RBN aren't even music, they're arbitrary instructions on which colors to hit at which time. Playing the file in a midi player would result in garbage audio and sound nothing like the song.

    Again, just trying to learn why this is a problem, not to stir things up.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited February 2011
    Midi files by themselves are not copyright infringment.

    it's when you match them up with MP3's that makes them infringment material.

    You are using an artists music without their permission in a ways that you haven't been granted the license or rights to do so.

    Again we all know that customs exist and are out there, no one is denying that.

    But you probably shouldn't draw attention to yourself that you make said customs.

    You wouldn't go on the RIAA's site and ask how to download music for free would you?
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4293190 said:


    You wouldn't go on the RIAA's site and ask how to download music for free would you?

    I would but I'm Canadian so they can't touch me.
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4293190 said:
    Midi files by themselves are not copyright infringment.

    it's when you match them up with MP3's that makes them infringment material.

    You are using an artists music without their permission in a ways that you haven't been granted the license or rights to do so.

    Again we all know that customs exist and are out there, no one is denying that.

    But you probably shouldn't draw attention to yourself that you make said customs.

    You wouldn't go on the RIAA's site and ask how to download music for free would you?

    While I think your RIAA analogy is fairly irrelevant to this situation, I will have to just take your word for it that this is sketchy territory. I suppose it would be akin to distributing guitar tabs. I'm not actually sure what legal reasoning a band would threaten against this fairly arbitrary midi format, but I'm sure they could win purely by financial backing.
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    If HMX were to actively aid you in committing what the labels consider to be copyright infringement, that puts them in a more than awkward position. The threat of lawsuits is only part of it: it makes it more difficult for HMX to negotiate with labels and bands in getting their music into Rock Band. That being the case, it's kind of silly to be using HMX's own forums to ask for help in producing customs. A better analogy than RIAA might be, "Uh, Sony? Could you possibly send me the master tracks for Rubber Soul? I'm not gonna release anything, I'm *cough cough* just gonna do some mixes for fun..." NEVAHHAPPEN.

    Now, I'm pretty sure that nobody's making customs of any of my songs.:rolleyes: but if someone was, after all my work on the songs, and all Markleford's on the charts? I'd be more pissed than flattered.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    jawillroy;4293329 said:
    Now, I'm pretty sure that nobody's making customs of any of my songs.:rolleyes: but if someone was, after all my work on the songs, and all Markleford's on the charts? I'd be more pissed than flattered.
    Well, I imagine that you mean that for one of the *already*-released songs! Yeah, that would be a pretty crappy way of getting out of coughing up a measly 80 MSP for a song that an indie artist put all that time into.

    (Then again, such a person would already have paid their blood money to MS for the XNA membership and access to the Audition mode, so it would be sort of a bass-ackwards way of doing it...)

    But so far as going to www.TheJamesRocket.com (plug!), downloading any number of the *other* free mp3s there, and charting it themselves without the benefit of isolated stems? Off the record I'd say MORE POWER TO 'EM! Can't really see this as much different than recording a cover. Sure, I'd say that's flattering.

    On the record, though, we can't really condone customs for the reasons you list, especially the possibility of damaging HMX's relationships with artists and goodwill to the industry in general.

    And for a small artist that gives away his mp3s for free, that's not so problematic, but major labels would especially complain if the .rba files are redistributed with the audio assets intact. That *is* copyright violation, and expressly against the XNA/RBN terms of use.

    Distributing just the MIDI charts and having people provide their own audio, on the other hand, is a bit of a grey area. But we're not here to fight that battle. We acknowledge that the customs scene *is* out there, but just kindly ask folks to go elsewhere to learn more about it.

    - m
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get around paying for anything. If these songs were available or eventually made available for Rock Band, I'd gladly pay for them since there are so many other benefits of having a true multitrack game copy. I'm simply trying to learn how to play some songs on drums, and for me it makes sense to spend the time to chart the expert track and play it in audition mode and learn it that way. It's no different than trying to sing along with a song in your car, or mess around with your guitar while playing along with your favorite songs. I'm definitely NOT trying to condone sharing music files or anything of the sort.

    Thanks for all the replies guys, this is an interesting new area in music education and I feel it's worth these discussions.
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    So, wait: Sniggle, am I right in understanding that you're learning to chart? Why not go the whole distance, and see if the band in question wants the song charted for Rock Band?
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    jawillroy;4293606 said:
    So, wait: Sniggle, am I right in understanding that you're learning to chart? Why not go the whole distance, and see if the band in question wants the song charted for Rock Band?
    Because I'm talking about songs from major bands like Radiohead, Beck, etc. I don't think it's realistic to expect these songs to ever come out, or come out any time soon.
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    Hmm. Why not? HMX has landed big fish before; for that matter, so have RBN charters. Sure, I can imagine Radiohead might be too stuck up for the whole plastic-guitar-and-drum schtick, but maybe not.
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    jawillroy;4293907 said:
    Hmm. Why not? HMX has landed big fish before; for that matter, so have RBN charters. Sure, I can imagine Radiohead might be too stuck up for the whole plastic-guitar-and-drum schtick, but maybe not.

    Their 2 songs in Rock Band suggest they aren't too stuck up.
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    Catch-22;4294191 said:
    Their 2 songs in Rock Band suggest they aren't too stuck up.

    See? There ya go. Pester 'em.
  • snigglesniggle Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    Yeah but come on, let's be realistic. I am one fan among hundreds of thousands, if not millions. It's much easier for me to just chart the few songs myself than wait and try to get them to release. Especially if some of the songs I want to play were never mainstream hits.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited February 2011
    I had no clue how to chart (but I was a pretty prolific tester since the start) until June of this year.

    Now I have not only started a charting company that has about twenty different people authoring songs, but we've got about 150 - 300 songs lined up for this year.

    I was exactly where you were (outside of the charting customs bit), eight months ago, and now look at what I'm doing.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4295124 said:
    I was exactly where you were (outside of the charting customs bit), eight months ago, and now look at what I'm doing.

    Full disclosure though, Noble is a lunatic.

    I'm sure you get the point though- we've got plenty of legitimate reasons to discourage customs. But we do encourage people learning to author, and we really encourage people taking chances on contacting bands. A lot will say no, but you'd be surprised who says yes.

    In terms of learning, I recently noticed that R.E.M. is doing a remix contest, which means their stems for It Happened Today are available, and under CC licensing. You still can't distribute or sell your work off that, but I think that's a bit more comfortable. And once you start working with stems, you won't want to go back. You'll have to go legit. :P
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited February 2011
    FairwoodStudios;4295151 said:
    Full disclosure though, Noble is a lunatic.

    It's true.

    I have papers and every thing :p
  • jawillroyjawillroy Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    FairwoodStudios;4295151 said:
    In terms of learning, I recently noticed that R.E.M. is doing a remix contest, which means their stems for It Happened Today are available, and under CC licensing. You still can't distribute or sell your work off that, but I think that's a bit more comfortable. And once you start working with stems, you won't want to go back. You'll have to go legit. :P

    I second this. It's a great idea.
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited February 2011
    Just chiming in here:

    The RBN exists so that people can build and sell Rock Band tracks for songs to which they have the rights to the masters (or appropriate permission granted by the artist(s) or label).

    If you don't own the rights to a song, then this isn't the correct place to talk about the song you're working on, because it does risk all kinds of legal shiskabob. Or even goulash.

    Thanks!
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