Vocal overdrive activation in RBN songs

SideshowNSideshowN Rising Star
edited February 2011 in The Rock Band Network
I dont know if this problem has already been addressed but there is a ton of songs in the RBN where they just dont give you enough overdrive activation opportunities. There were songs of which I was overflowing overdrive phrases because there was no activation sections for me to unleash. I'm sorry I cant give song examples at this time but I could write some down next time I play. I'm just making this thread for the authors and playtesters to look out for this issue. Please give as many opportunities to activate overdrive when the bar is ready to go! Thanks

Comments

  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    Activation opportunities are entirely up to the RB engine to determine. If the singer is really "chatty", your opportunities will be very few and far between!
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    Blame the RB3 engine.

    In RB2, vocal phrases ended as soon as the words were finished, so the size of the marker used to separate each phrase didn't matter too much, as long as it was big enough to cover all the words in each phrase.

    RB3 actually ends each vocal phrase where the marker ends, so oftentimes markers extend into those tiny gaps that used to provide OD activation points, forcing their removal. It's like Pro Drum markers: if we had known about it from the start, we would have accommodated it. Authors would have made sure that the phrase markers only covered the words in the phrase and would try to squeeze out whatever activation points could fit in between the markers.
  • SideshowNSideshowN Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    Thanks for explaining the differences of the RB2 and RB3 engines. I do notice many instances of which the player will achieve an activation right after successfully comboing an overdrive phrase. The problem is the activation timing window is so small at the start of the next phrase, if you miss the activation, the next activation may not appear until after the player has been banking overdrive way over the full bar. Songs with Talky "chatty" vocals suffer from this even more.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    I thought RB3 allowed more activation sections, since it now places them in the middle of phrases if there's enough of a gap in the notes. I know I've seen an activation section that started before the end of a phrase and then continued into the no-phrase section without a gap.
  • jeccanekojeccaneko Headliner
    edited February 2011
    Some playtesters look for it. I'm a newer playtester/reviewer, but part of the duo that makes up my playtesting account on RBN is one of the top Xbox 360 vocalists (SakuraSylph). He has actually asked authors to move overdrive windows (and some have!) in times that it makes more sense from a vocals perspective in our tests. The windows where you can activate will still be the same, like if a singer is chatty like Markleford says you may not be able to activate much, but with moving where you earn overdrive around, you can make things make more sense for a particular song.

    Basically just saying that, yeah, there are those of us out there that try to help out the authors. I just don't know how many people look at vocals and overdrive pathing and squeezing as much as the team of me and Sakura.
  • ArcanonArcanon Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    jeccaneko;4303938 said:
    I just don't know how many people look at vocals and overdrive pathing and squeezing as much as the team of me and Sakura.

    I don't look out for pathing and squeezing that much, seeing as those are more advanced techniques done by more advanced players to maximize score, but I do look at usable OD. If every OD phrase authored can be used in some way or another, the song is fine by me. Having authored vocal charts myself, I know how tough it is to work with OD windows, seeing as we have no way to control when OD activation windows pop up (aside from the phrase marker setup, which only does so much). If a song is naturally chatty (like rap or folk), there may not be so many chances for windows to pop up.

    I think the authors have done good jobs so far when it comes to vocal OD, and the quality will only get better now that we have the phrase marker mechanic to give us a bit more control over it. (I hope we've been doing good too!)
  • SkodeSkode Headliner
    edited February 2011
    SideshowN;4303181 said:
    Thanks for explaining the differences of the RB2 and RB3 engines. I do notice many instances of which the player will achieve an activation right after successfully comboing an overdrive phrase. The problem is the activation timing window is so small at the start of the next phrase, if you miss the activation, the next activation may not appear until after the player has been banking overdrive way over the full bar. Songs with Talky "chatty" vocals suffer from this even more.

    I thought you could activate over drive on vocals by pressing the back button on the controller though... regardless of the size of the window the click of a button should be more than rapid enough to activate your OD before the window closes - no?
  • IcemageIcemage Road Warrior
    edited February 2011
    Skode;4304225 said:
    I thought you could activate over drive on vocals by pressing the back button on the controller though... regardless of the size of the window the click of a button should be more than rapid enough to activate your OD before the window closes - no?

    I think he's referring to those times when you have 1/4 of a bar, complete another OD phrase, and the gold OD window appears for only a split second before it's gone past the scoring line. This has to do with how much time it takes for the game engine to award you the overdrive after completing the phrase - with windows that are already small to begin with, it's nearly impossible to hit such windows without pausing the game to rewind the chart.
  • SideshowNSideshowN Rising Star
    edited February 2011
    That's exactly what I'm talking about Icemage and the new inclusion of using the back button on the controller helps much more to activate those sections.

    I suppose the biggest complaint I have is when near the end of a song the player will achieve enough overdrive for an activation but the game will not give any opportunity to let the vocalist activate before the song ends. I play Pro Drums more than any other instrument in the game and this was a big problem in the first couple months of RBN songs. Very noticeable if you play solo as you would end the song with an activation OD bar and had no opportunity to use it for score maximization. Of course only drummers and vocalist have these problems because we cant activate OD whenever we want. I'm pretty sure having extra overdrive on drum charts doesn't occur anymore as it was only a problem in the first couple months of charts. I know I made a thread about it a long time ago.

    Anyhow, I dont wanna seem like I'm completely hating on the RBN authors and testers, I love playing these songs and am just concerned to make them as polished as possible. Keep up the great work!
  • Bryan2BlazedBryan2Blazed Banned
    edited February 2011
    There is an OD part on Devour by Shinedown that I have never been able to activate, Screaming or using the button.
  • MarklefordMarkleford Opening Act
    edited February 2011
    SideshowN;4311281 said:
    Anyhow, I dont wanna seem like I'm completely hating on the RBN authors and testers, I love playing these songs and am just concerned to make them as polished as possible. Keep up the great work!
    Yes, please give us a break! :) Without having RB3 to test against, neither authors or testers could have known how their vox phrases would be interpreted for OD in the future.

    It's another case like not putting in Pro Drums charting since the beginning of RBN: we simply weren't told that the capability was going to be in RB3. Totally would've, if we had known.

    Admittedly, authoring and playtest quality *can* vary, but it frustrates me when people keep saying how much we suck for something that wasn't told to us, and yet we have no way to 'update' a track without charging for a new one! :(

    - m
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