Rocksmith & Rocksmith 2014 discussion thread

Comments

  • I_Love_YouI_Love_You Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    GNFfhqwhgads;4385424 said:
    'Sadly' pretty one-sided? You know when it was one-sided last? When Harmonix made Guitar Hero II. And we know that was one of the worst sequels ever, right?

    There is a big difference between then and now though.

    Back when they were the only ones producing games, it was new and they were doing all they could to get a fan base. Whereas now, they already have the fan base, and they're the sole producers yet again.

    With that in mind, I assume the argument is that now that people are 'hooked' on the type of game, they'll keep playing Rock Band no matter what (in theory), so they can produce a sub-par game, knowing they'll get sales either way (with no better competition to run to). This is certainly possible in any industry, and has been seen in the past, though I doubt it'll happen with HMX, obviously.
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    In that GI article the first guy mentions drills and minigames but RB3 has that. I wish the experienced guitar playing reviewer could explain exactly how it "Ultimately seems more intuitive and exact than Pro Mode in Rock Band 3".
  • TheDescentTheDescent Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    "House of the rising Son. "

    Oh, that's cool.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited May 2011
    Doom878;4392623 said:
    I wish the experienced guitar playing reviewer could explain exactly how it "Ultimately seems more intuitive and exact than Pro Mode in Rock Band 3".

    I think he means the fact that the layout of the chart is horizontal with finger positions coming at you instead of it being vertical with a line coming at you along with a number for the fret is more intuitive to playing.

    You can get a peak at the game in the SXSW video on their web page here: http://rocksmith.ubi.com/rocksmith/en-US/

    Personally, I still can't figure out how the game knows what notes you are playing and how the game will react as the guitar slowly goes out of tune...
  • toymachineSHtoymachineSH Headliner
    edited May 2011
    Rocksmith

    + Rhythm and Lead
    + Doesn't need master tracks
    + String Bends
    + Horizontal Representation of Tablature
    + Pedal Effects / Jam Mode

    - Isn't Rock Band
    - DLC might be lacking
    - Online Multiplayer still unconfirmed
    - Not by Harmonix
    - Doesn't look pretty like RB3
    - Technology used might make game unplayable if your guitar doesn't stay in tune
    - Charts might not be 100% accurate and may be "nerfed" in some respects
    - No Bass
  • Herr_BassHerr_Bass Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    Audio doesn't cut out when the note is missed is a big minus
  • hakko504hakko504 Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    Sayburr;4392634 said:
    Personally, I still can't figure out how the game knows what notes you are playing and how the game will react as the guitar slowly goes out of tune...
    It's not that complicated - for a single note. Look up 'Fourier transform' if you want to know more. The trick is with chords: How to differentiate between harmonic frequencies from one string and base notes from another. And then decide which note comes from what string in real time. As for going out of tune, well, I think they said they would include a tuner in the program, and if they do it right, it should warn you once you're so much off that the program starts to have problems identifying the right notes - and hopefully long before that.
    toymachineSH;4392743 said:
    Rocksmith

    + Rhythm and Lead
    + Doesn't need master tracks
    + String Bends
    + Horizontal Representation of Tablature
    + Pedal Effects / Jam Mode

    - Isn't Rock Band
    - DLC might be lacking
    - Online Multiplayer still unconfirmed
    - Not by Harmonix
    - Doesn't look pretty like RB3
    - Technology used might make game unplayable if your guitar doesn't stay in tune
    - Charts might not be 100% accurate and may be "nerfed" in some respects
    - No Bass
    Has it even been confirmed that there will be local multiplayer? And I agree, skipping Bass is a big minus. Let's hope its added later (next version?). As for the charts, well, my guess is that they will be no better nor worse than HMX charts for RB3 on average. Since they can't check what strings you actually play I'd say that there is a little more leeway in how to chart/play in Rocksmith. Even if it's charted one way you can probably play it the way you prefer if you think that's easier as long as you play the same notes. Think 'Smoke on the water' which is charted 5/3/5 by HMX but almost everywhere else as 0/3/5. Technically it's the same notes, but in RB3 you can't choose which way to play, but in Rocksmith both ways will most likely work without problems, because it's the same notes, just on different strings.
    Herr_Bass;4393581 said:
    Audio doesn't cut out when the note is missed is a big minus

    Not if it plays the right note instead, but we don't know that yet.
  • TheDescentTheDescent Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    My biggest question is about the timing/delay. Since the engine don't relies on which frets you're on, but instead recognizes the notes that you're playing, will the whole thing recognize the notes at the right time?

    I play real guitar/bass with my pc through a very cool program called guitar rig. Well, the main issue is the delay between the input and the output signal. Without the right drivers installed on your pc for your specific soundboard, there is almost 1,5 sec delay between the note you're playing and the note that comes out your speakers.

    How they'll handle this problem?
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    What sucks is you can't even rent the game because of the cable. I doubt I'll pay $80 unless I see some very convincing and detailed reviews.
  • Herr_BassHerr_Bass Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    hakko504;4393590 said:

    [QUOTE=Herr_Bass;4393581]Audio doesn't cut out when the note is missed is a big minus
    Not if it plays the right note instead, but we don't know that yet.[/QUOTE]

    As it purports to use the game system as an 'amp' it better play whatever you are doing on the guitar, but the original guitar track on the song will be playing whatever you do from what I surmise.
  • hakko504hakko504 Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    TheDescent;4393593 said:
    My biggest question is about the timing/delay. Since the engine don't relies on which frets you're on, but instead recognizes the notes that you're playing, will the whole thing recognize the notes at the right time?

    I play real guitar/bass with my pc through a very cool program called guitar rig. Well, the main issue is the delay between the input and the output signal. Without the right drivers installed on your pc for your specific soundboard, there is almost 1,5 sec delay between the note you're playing and the note that comes out your speakers.

    How they'll handle this problem?
    This might very well what makes or breaks the game. I mean, Rock Band have already a huge delay on some systems which is very noticeable when freestyling drums, which mostly comes from equipment outside of the actual game (TV, amplifier, etc.), and thus something that will affect Rocksmith as well. It will be very interesting to see if they can overcome that problem 'at home' as opposed to what I assume is well calibrated demo systems.
  • raynebcraynebc Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    hakko504;4393590 said:
    As for the charts, well, my guess is that they will be no better nor worse than HMX charts for RB3 on average. Since they can't check what strings you actually play I'd say that there is a little more leeway in how to chart/play in Rocksmith. Even if it's charted one way you can probably play it the way you prefer if you think that's easier as long as you play the same notes. Think 'Smoke on the water' which is charted 5/3/5 by HMX but almost everywhere else as 0/3/5. Technically it's the same notes, but in RB3 you can't choose which way to play, but in Rocksmith both ways will most likely work without problems, because it's the same notes, just on different strings.

    That the RB3 pro guitar authoring is more accurate doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just a matter of your own personal preference. Some people would rather play easier variations of chords.
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited May 2011
    I read the latest Game Informer Magazine yesterday, and I found something interesting in their preview for Rock Smith.

    They had an editor who's never touched a real guitar, who said it was a great learning tool, and an editor who was in a band for a few years. The latter said that even though the system was deeper than RB3's Pro Mode, it was more confusing, and really didn't stack up against traditional learning.

    I've never played the game myself (duh!) but looking at videos of it, I'd have to agree with the latter.
  • toymachineSHtoymachineSH Headliner
    edited May 2011
    LiveHomeVideo;4394060 said:
    I read the latest Game Informer Magazine yesterday, and I found something interesting in their preview for Rock Smith.

    They had an editor who's never touched a real guitar, who said it was a great learning tool, and an editor who was in a band for a few years. The latter said that even though the system was deeper than RB3's Pro Mode, it was more confusing, and really didn't stack up against traditional learning.

    I've never played the game myself (duh!) but looking at videos of it, I'd have to agree with the latter.

    http://i.imgur.com/imarr.jpg

    Interesting paraphrasing you did there
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    A major pro for RS, no mute needed.
  • raynebcraynebc Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    It hasn't even been seen if RockSmith will require you to play the correct notes, or if it can accurately judge your playing.
  • DMBilliesDMBillies Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    raynebc;4395855 said:
    It hasn't even been seen if RockSmith will require you to play the correct notes, or if it can accurately judge your playing.
    By allowing you to add flourishes and other things, they're naturally going to have to be less restrictive in scoring (i.e., I'm guessing no penalties for overstrums or mis-timed notes since there is no way to differentiate improv from mistakes when they are outside of the hitbox).

    By using technology that has to interpret the analog signal, I have to imagine there is some short amount of lag between processing and scoring, and enough lag that the game won't be able to give "real-time" feedback about missed notes. This and the ability to drop the track is the express reason that RB did not use a similar technology (or at least, I read some interviews that this was one of the main design challenges for using a real guitar and having to use the Squier tech). Including the fact that the neck does not detect/display your hand position so you won't be able to see your mistakes either, a lack of immediate feedback on your performance is my number one concern for this game as a teaching tool.

    That said, as long as your guitar is in tune, I think the scoring will be fine and any "error" will be eaten up by slop in the scoring system.

    In other words, if you are a gamer and are looking for a competitive way to play guitar, Rocksmith is going to fail because the scoring system is probably going to be too loosey goosey and, unlike RB and GH, will not be focused on allowing you to squeeze every bit of points out of a song. However, I think the scoring system will be good enough to allow the game to provide an auto-adjusting difficulty curve to people who are trying to learn guitar.

    And I'll say again... this "game" should be thought of as a fun, cheaper, and hopefully less frustrating way to learn guitar compared to standard teaching tools. If you think about it like that, the scoring only has to be good enough to allow you to feel like you are making progress in learning and being met with a challenge that always seems just barely within reach. Of the people that do care about score at all in RB/GH, I guarantee 90% of them only care because they want that feeling of improvement... which is why taking away stars for RB2 was such a fiasco.

    Rocksmith's scoring is probably going to have the sensitivity of the star system... and for most of their target audience that will be more than adequate.

    Maybe I've drank the kool-aid or something, but unless I hear this game is a disaster from someone other than a RB fan boy, I'm probably going to check it out. I'm not blind to the fact that they've certainly made some design decisions that were limited by the technology they are using (what game isn't a slave to the hardware?), but I'm also not blind to the fact that HMX solution requires you to buy a rather expensive guitar to play and their design decisions were equally limited by a ton of other concerns (namely fitting pro guitar into the current platform and following already established rules about how the game responds to the player).
  • DustinJames89DustinJames89 Opening Act
    edited May 2011
    Jealous that it's getting "House of the Rising Sun". However, the fact there would be no vocals or keys would make it meh.....
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    I like the fact you can play with the different pedals and jam freestyle on your home sound system. Hopefully an addition to RB4 and same with the keyboard. My daughters disappointingly tap the keyboard to no noise.
  • abynormalabynormal Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    I still have no opinion on this game yet. And who knows, maybe it will be a better "guitar" game for those who are trying to learn and already have an electric guitar.

    But Rock Band is and always has been a party game, and that is where Rocksmith can't compete.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited May 2011
    abynormal;4396265 said:
    But Rock Band is and always has been a party game, and that is where Rocksmith can't compete.
    Very true. Rock Band will always be the best "game". But, it looks like Rocksmith is going to fill a niche and could be very successful if it actually does what they are saying it will do.

    This game is very high on my personal radar at the moment and I am looking forward to hearing more about it.
  • hiimSMAPhiimSMAP Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    Wow this game actually looks....good.
  • thestickmasterthestickmaster Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    hiimSMAP;4396946 said:
    Wow this game actually looks....good.

    You sir, are insane.
  • hiimSMAPhiimSMAP Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    Well, if renouncing society, selling all worldly posessions, and learning how to purify and drink your own urine is insane, then why yes, color me insane!
  • toymachineSHtoymachineSH Headliner
    edited May 2011
    I think it looks pretty good also- I'm also willing to allow another game to penetrate the market without bashing it for no reason though...
  • edited May 2011
    Another Powergig Revolution?
  • FlyGuyLXIFlyGuyLXI Headl!ner
    edited May 2011
    mercuryshadow09;4397209 said:
    Another Powergig Revolution?

    I wouldn't go that far this time. It's more emphasized on training you than being a game.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    hiimSMAP;4396980 said:
    Well, if renouncing society, selling all worldly posessions, and learning how to purify and drink your own urine is insane, then why yes, color me insane!

    I'm looking in my box of crayolas and for the life of me I can't find that color?
  • White_PawZWhite_PawZ Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    I think it's a neat idea, but it's also a very different type of game than Rock Band.

    Rock Band is a party game that you and your buddies can play. It's karaoke with some new additions to teach you the basics of keys, drums, and pro guitar. Someone who has never played before can pick it up and 4 people can play together as a band and have fun.

    Rock Smith is an in-depth guitar learning tool that looks like fun for those really into it. It is not going to be a party game. There are no drums, keys, bass, or vocals. It seems more of an independent experience.

    In reality, I don't see it as a "competitor" at all to Rock Band. It is a different type of game entirely. It looks like a neat tool for those who already have a guitar they want to use for lessons.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited May 2011
    mercuryshadow09;4397209 said:
    Another Powergig Revolution?

    The concept is better thought out than Power Gig, and it's target audience isn't the current music gamer, but folks who play guitar or want to learn to play guitar (and yes, I know that last part can overlap with RB3). Given how it's being setup, it doesn't have to sell extremely well to be a success either, with no peripherals to push and a smaller song selection, it if sells half as well as RB3, it'll be a success.
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