Rocksmith & Rocksmith 2014 discussion thread

Comments

  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited May 2011
    But then that would mean that no matter your skill level, the start of every section would be 'Expert', no?
  • skyttskyttskyttskytt Headliner
    edited May 2011
    From what it sounded like, it seemed like it learned your proficiency, so that you start on easy, but then if you get up to expert and quit, when you come back, you start back on expert (or slightly lower, didn't they say it'd help ease you back in after not playing for a while?). It could just remember that per section, rather than just 1 setting per entire song, since that makes absolutely no sense for anything but a song by the Ramones.

    I mean, RB and GH already have songs split into sections that can be used in practice mode, they could be doing the same thing and just tying your proficiency to each of them independently of each other so that you aren't stuck shooting down to easy because you get a 0% on the solo since you wreck the part before and are thrown into it on expert.

    It doesn't have to necessarily throw you into expert on everything if you're really good at the start of the song either, it may auto manage you hopping around based on which section it is, so you play through a song at expert-medium-hard-expert-easy-medium-easy-expert, and only bump up the lower sections when you've performed them well enough.

    That's if they're doing it this way. I don't know if they've said one way or another, but it'll be dumb if it's just 1 global difficulty per song.
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited May 2011
    I play mostly hard difficulty on pro guitar. Yeah I'll average between 50 and 70% but I prefer practicing power chords or the actual chords without the extra strums since I don't feel like practicing all 100 songs I have. Even solos are bearable since IMO hard and expert solos are light years apart. I mean will this game be able to truly master my proficiency or will I get penalized to single note riffs when it's power chords and I miss because I was doing 688xxx instead of 799xxx.
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
  • dog037dog037 This Many Days Since Last Ban:
    edited June 2011
    Is Where is My Mind on this game? I love that song.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    i'm pretty sure i remember reading somewhere where they talk about how the game determines areas where you're stronger or weaker than others, for instance, if you have trouble with string bending but can do hammer-ons and pull-offs just fine. a lot of the little side challenges and things they mentioned are determined by what techniques you need to practice and work on. so the same thing may apply to songs, if you're really good with open chords but not with barre chords, for example, then maybe you'll get the parts of songs with open chords at a higher difficulty level than sections that feature more barre chords.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    Doom878;4408343 said:
    http://youtu.be/1u_6CY4ntJQ

    First latency complaint

    i KNEW this was going to be a problem. the reviewer says that unless they fix the latency problem, the game won't work. problem is, they CAN'T fix it, not for everyone, because in most cases it is caused by the sound processing in the tv and/or av receiver. there's nothing the game can do about that, since it can't predict 30ms or whatever amount of lag time there is ahead of time what notes you are going to play. RB is able to get around this by using pre-recorded audio stems of each instrument, something this game obviously does not have. the only way you'll be able to play this game is if you have a latency free a/v setup to play it through.
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    Jealous of Cream being in the game.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    also, the notation interface STILL looks horrible.
    and the guitar-cade? hmmmm.... ok.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    dog037;4408391 said:
    Is Where is My Mind on this game? I love that song.

    me too. luckily i already know how to play it, but i'd love to be able to play that song in RB.
    Catch-22 said:
    Jealous of Cream being in the game.
    does this mean the PowerGig/Clapton exclusivity is over, or doesn't apply to Cream? does that mean we might be able to get Cream songs in RB now?
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    tnevaker;4408399 said:

    does this mean the PowerGig/Clapton exclusivity is over, or doesn't apply to Cream? does that mean we might be able to get Cream songs in RB now?

    Leaning more to Cream isn't included in the Powergig deal. Cream was more than just Clapton so it seems unlikely his say is all that's required to lock them up.

    Edit: As for in Rock Band, I'm not sure if you can judge that based on this game. It doesn't seem like they require stems since the audio doesn't cut out which means that any song included may not have records that meet the higher Rock Band standards.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    yeah, it might not mean we will get Cream or not one day, but at least it indicates one less possible thing that would block their songs from the game. i'd love to get sunshine of your love in RB.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited June 2011
    Doom878;4408343 said:
    http://youtu.be/1u_6CY4ntJQ

    First latency complaint
    That is what I expected... I figured if it were possible to control, HMX would have figured it out instead of creating a new tech with the Squier.
  • RRhoadsRRhoads Unsigned
    edited June 2011
    tnevaker;4408396 said:
    i KNEW this was going to be a problem. the reviewer says that unless they fix the latency problem, the game won't work. problem is, they CAN'T fix it, not for everyone, because in most cases it is caused by the sound processing in the tv and/or av receiver.
    No it's not. I can play guitar fine without latency when I connect my guitar to my computer. I got one of the old Creative X-FI cards. Some crappy soundcards might have a delay though.

    I can imagine fixing it for consoles might be a problem.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    RRhoads;4408457 said:
    No it's not. I can play guitar fine without latency when I connect my guitar to my computer. I got one of the old Creative X-FI cards. Some crappy soundcards might have a delay though.

    I can imagine fixing it for consoles might be a problem.

    i don't think you read what i wrote. i said that for most people playing this game, the audio lag will be caused by the tv or av receiver. what does plugging a guitar into a computer or sound card have to do with that? my av receiver gives me 30ms of lag. it has nothing to do with the software, the console, or anything else. any audio that goes into the receiver, comes out of my speakers 30ms later. it's the av receiver, and the only way i could ever get rid of the lag is by buying a whole new av receiver, one with a dedicated game mode that removes all audio processing from the audio chain. most people will be playing this game through tv speakers or an av receiver, and most tvs and av receivers add audio lag, so a lot of people are going to have that problem. i'm guessing your computer just has speakers plugged in directly to the computer, so that's why you don't have audio lag. if you plug the output of your sound card into most av receivers, those receivers will add lag, and because it's after the software and computer in the signal chain, there's nothing the software would be able to do to eliminate it.
  • Ledgo2Ledgo2 Rising Star
    edited June 2011
    The video looked interesting. Can't wait to see the full set! When is that revealed?
  • RRhoadsRRhoads Unsigned
    edited June 2011
    tnevaker;4408505 said:
    i don't think you read what i wrote. i said that for most people playing this game, the audio lag will be caused by the tv or av receiver. what does plugging a guitar into a computer or sound card have to do with that?
    What's the difference? I don't get audio lag through my speakers when my guitar is connected to my soundcard. At least not any noticeable lag. I don't use digital cables from my soundcard to the amplifier though. That could have something to do with it. I don't know. All I know is my experience. I have to set my soundcard in "Audio Creation Mode" to not experience lag. I think this is where the problem is.

    I understand what you are trying to say, but think about it. If it was your audio or AV Receiver that was the problem, you would have the same problem with Rock Band.
  • RRhoadsRRhoads Unsigned
    edited June 2011
    I heard the full setlist was going to be released today.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    RRhoads;4408578 said:
    What's the difference? I don't get audio lag through my speakers when my guitar is connected to my soundcard. At least not any noticeable lag. I don't use digital cables from my soundcard to the amplifier though. That could have something to do with it. I don't know. All I know is my experience. I have to set my soundcard in "Audio Creation Mode" to not experience lag. I think this is where the problem is.

    I understand what you are trying to say, but think about it. If it was your audio or AV Receiver that was the problem, you would have the same problem with Rock Band.

    that's why RB and these types of games have the calibration settings. because RB only plays back pre-recorded audio files, it can easily just play those files back 30ms or however much earlier, to account for the lag. if i miss a note, it cuts the audio out, albeit 30ms late. but this game depends on the guitar signal itself to produce the sound, so it can't get by on playing pre-recorded audio a bit early to compensate for lag introduced by other parts of the system. the game has no way of anticipating what note you're going to play before you actually play it, unless they've invented some kind of special ESP function or something.

    i can still hear the audio lag in RB if i turn on drum fills. i can play with the pre-recorded drum track fine, since the calibration compensates for the audio lag. but when it goes to drum fills, the software has to wait for me to hit a note before producing a sound, so it can no longer compensate and i hear the notes 30ms after i actually hit them, which makes keeping a rhythm in time impossible for that section. the best thing about RB3 for me was that option to turn off drum fills. you can also hear the lag when someone is singing in the mic and has the in-game mic volume turned up. so the problem does exist for RB too, but to a much lesser degree, and there are workarounds that make the game playable. i don't see any possible workaround for this game, unless you turn off the in-game guitar audio completely and play through your own amp, but then that defeats the selling points of all those in-game effects and amp modes and whatnot they are advertising.
  • Doom878Doom878 Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    RRhoads;4408578 said:
    What's the difference? I don't get audio lag through my speakers when my guitar is connected to my soundcard. At least not any noticeable lag. I don't use digital cables from my soundcard to the amplifier though. That could have something to do with it. I don't know. All I know is my experience. I have to set my soundcard in "Audio Creation Mode" to not experience lag. I think this is where the problem is.

    I understand what you are trying to say, but think about it. If it was your audio or AV Receiver that was the problem, you would have the same problem with Rock Band.
    You don't have the problem with Rock Band because of the sensors on the Squier/Mustang. If you plugged in the Rocksmith cable to a guitar and tried to play RB3 (assuming it worked) then yes latency would still be an issue. HMX knew this thus opting for game specific guitars.
  • RRhoadsRRhoads Unsigned
    edited June 2011
    tnevaker;4408616 said:
    that's why RB and these types of games have the calibration settings. because RB only plays back pre-recorded audio files, it can easily just play those files back 30ms or however much earlier, to account for the lag. if i miss a note, it cuts the audio out, albeit 30ms late. but this game depends on the guitar signal itself to produce the sound, so it can't get by on playing pre-recorded audio a bit early to compensate for lag introduced by other parts of the system. the game has no way of anticipating what note you're going to play before you actually play it, unless they've invented some kind of special ESP function or something.

    i can still hear the audio lag in RB if i turn on drum fills. i can play with the pre-recorded drum track fine, since the calibration compensates for the audio lag. but when it goes to drum fills, the software has to wait for me to hit a note before producing a sound, so it can no longer compensate and i hear the notes 30ms after i actually hit them, which makes keeping a rhythm in time impossible for that section. the best thing about RB3 for me was that option to turn off drum fills. you can also hear the lag when someone is singing in the mic and has the in-game mic volume turned up. so the problem does exist for RB too, but to a much lesser degree, and there are workarounds that make the game playable. i don't see any possible workaround for this game, unless you turn off the in-game guitar audio completely and play through your own amp, but then that defeats the selling points of all those in-game effects and amp modes and whatnot they are advertising.
    What if the signal is analog, do you think there would be delay then? Like I said, I don't get any noticeable lag between my PC and sound system when I connect my guitar there. I would be getting this game for PC anyway.

    I don't have a Mac, otherwise I would probably checked out "Garageband" which is a lot of the same thing, except it's less of a game setting. I don't hear much talk about latency there.
  • DMBilliesDMBillies Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    Doom878;4408621 said:
    You don't have the problem with Rock Band because of the sensors on the Squier/Mustang. If you plugged in the Rocksmith cable to a guitar and tried to play RB3 (assuming it worked) then yes latency would still be an issue. HMX knew this thus opting for game specific guitars.
    This is not exactly true. There is a difference between processing the audio signal from the guitar for real-time scoring purposes and dropping of the audio track (which RB does) and simply playing the audio through a receiver which creates a lag between when that signal is input and when it comes out of the speakers. HMX has talked about the scoring of the audio signal requiring too much time and not being sensitive enough for what they wanted to do with the game (e.g., to allow the stems to drop out in a reasonable time). Lag in audio systems is handled by calibrating the audio to actually play X ms before it is supposed to be heard. The squire tech, then, is only used to cut down the amount of time it takes to drop the audio stem, otherwise the two types of lag would compound (i.e., if you missed a strum, the audio track would not drop out for the amount of time it takes RB to process that miss + the amount of time it takes for the signal to get through your audio system). Even still, with RB's system, as long as you are calibrated, the audio, video, and your playing will always feel as if they are aligned (the note will cross the hit bar as you need to be triggering the note and as the note is playing on the audio).

    Rocksmith doesn't drop the audio so it doesn't have to "score" you as fast, but it still has to put a signal through your audio system. If that system introduces 30ms of lag, then the signal you hear from your speakers will always come through 30ms after you play it. You cannot change this unless your guitar can put out a signal before you play it. Therefore, no matter what you do, the sound of your guitar will not align with the sound of the music if you are strumming on beat. Rocksmith could conceivably calibrate the game so that the on screen notation tells you to play notes 30ms early, but then you would have to be strumming the guitar off beat to get the sound to come out at the right time.

    Read...
    tnevaker;4408616 said:
    ...the right things about lag...


    I really thought Rocksmith was handling this by having the original song play with all instruments intact and playing your own guitar without it coming through the speakers. There's no audio lag off of strings, so you would hear your strings and the original player. I have to imagine there is an option to have/not have your guitar play through the speakers while you are playing the game.

    As for just using it as an amp, I can see that some of the effects might be cool to use and lag would be a problem for them too, but if I want to play my guitar through an amp... I'll use an amp.
  • DMBilliesDMBillies Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    RRhoads;4408719 said:
    What if the signal is analog, do you think there would be delay then? Like I said, I don't get any noticeable lag between my PC and sound system when I connect my guitar there. I would be getting this game for PC anyway.
    I am guessing your computer "sound system" does not have nearly the signal processing of most modern TV's and surround sound systems, which do all kinds of "magic" to the signal before it comes out of your speakers. The issue the guy in the review is talking about results from the amount of time it takes for an audio signal to go from the console/computer, through your sound system, and out the speakers, not the amount of time it takes for the instrument to send a signal to the console/computer.

    If audio takes 30 ms from the time it leaves the console to come out the speakers, any guitar you hook up to that console is going to play a sound AT LEAST 30 ms after you strum the notes (adding on any time it takes to get from the guitar to the console, which will typically be very small, and any processing that the console does). This will be inescapable for many people unless they are playing on a system with near 0 lag (which may be your computer, but anyone with a surround sound system is probably in trouble).

    Read any thread on calibration and you'll notice two things: 1) In games where timing an action appropriately with an audio and video signal is critically important, people notice rather small misalignments, and 2) TV's and sound systems vary widely in how much audio and video lag they introduce.
  • NOT_TravisNOT_Travis Rising Star
    edited June 2011
    tnevaker;4408616 said:
    the best thing about RB3 for me was that option to turn off drum fills.

    THIS! I've actually rerouted sound directly from my PS3 to the speaker input through a switch box just for RB2. Now, with RB3, I turned it off, but it's still nice to hear it when you hit it before and after the song starts or ends.
  • RRhoadsRRhoads Unsigned
    edited June 2011
    DMBillies;4408750 said:
    I am guessing your computer "sound system" does not have nearly the signal processing of most modern TV's and surround sound systems, which do all kinds of "magic" to the signal before it comes out of your speakers. The issue the guy in the review is talking about results from the amount of time it takes for an audio signal to go from the console/computer, through your sound system, and out the speakers, not the amount of time it takes for the instrument to send a signal to the console/computer.
    I got the Logitech Z-5500 on PC. Works fine for the PC. Better sound than most TV's. I wouldn't use it in my living room though.
    You are only half right on what the guy in the review is talking about. He's talking about the latency from the guitar to the speaker. Most of the delay here is either in the 360/PS3 or the cable. That's where most of the work is done.
    DMBillies;4408750 said:
    If audio takes 30 ms from the time it leaves the console to come out the speakers, any guitar you hook up to that console is going to play a sound AT LEAST 30 ms after you strum the notes (adding on any time it takes to get from the guitar to the console, which will typically be very small, and any processing that the console does). This will be inescapable for many people unless they are playing on a system with near 0 lag (which may be your computer, but anyone with a surround sound system is probably in trouble).
    Why are you only thinking about the latency between the console and the speakers?
    Why do you also think surround has anything to do with it? Processing? What about amps/pedals with different DIGITAL effects? How do you explain that there is no input lag there?
    DMBillies;4408750 said:
    Read any thread on calibration and you'll notice two things: 1) In games where timing an action appropriately with an audio and video signal is critically important, people notice rather small misalignments, and 2) TV's and sound systems vary widely in how much audio and video lag they introduce.
    No need to lecture me on VIDEO input lag. 30ms is pretty normal there. That's also what most calibration is about when it comes to Rock Band and Guitar Hero. That's why you have to delay the audio. You have to make sure the audio is at the same time as the video. CRT's don't have this issue, because the signal doesn't have to be digital. It's analog all the way there.

    A lot of people use a Line 6 POD, Guitar Rig, Garageband etc which they don't complain about lag. And 10 times out of 10 when they do complain about, it's a problem with their software/hardware/drivers on their PC/MAC. It works fine.

    That said, I'm pretty sure this game will be playable on my PC, but I'm not so sure about how it will work out on consoles.

    The only doubt I have about the PC version is the cable it forces us to use. That's where the big delay is going to be, you know, where it makes the analog signal digital.
  • dog037dog037 This Many Days Since Last Ban:
    edited June 2011
    New Songs!


    • Best Coast – When I'm With You
    • Blur – Song 2
    • The Black Keys – Next Girl
    • The Boxer Rebellion – Step Out Of The Car
    • Cream – Sunshine Of Your Love
    • The Cribs – We Share The Same Skies
    • The Cure – Boys Don't Cry
    • Jenny O – Well OK Honey
    • Lynyrd Skynyrd – Sweet Home Alabama
    • Nirvana – Breed
    • Pixies – Where Is My Mind?
    • Radiohead – High and Dry
    • Red Fang – Number Thirteen
    • The Rolling Stones – The Spider and the Fly
    • Silversun Pickups – Panic Switch
    • Soundgarden - Outshined
    • Spoon – Me and The Bean
    • Stone Temple Pilots – Vasoline
    • Taddy Porter – Mean *****
    • Titus Andronicus – A More Perfect Union
    • White Denim – Burnished
    • The White Stripes – Icky Thump
    • Yellow Moon Band - Chimney


    Soundgarden exclusive? Other than Where is My Mind? not much to excite me.

    Edit: Source
  • raynebcraynebc Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    Only recognizing a few by name, I listened to all of these on Youtube. I have to admit, I didn't recognize almost any of them, and I'm not impressed by the track list. I've transitioned from "maybe" getting this game to "waiting for good DLC".
  • bjyaritzbjyaritz Road Warrior
    edited June 2011
    dog037;4409021 said:
    New Songs!


    • Best Coast – When I'm With You
    • Blur – Song 2
    • The Black Keys – Next Girl
    • The Boxer Rebellion – Step Out Of The Car
    • Cream – Sunshine Of Your Love
    • The Cribs – We Share The Same Skies
    • The Cure – Boys Don't Cry
    • Jenny O – Well OK Honey
    • Lynyrd Skynyrd – Sweet Home Alabama
    • Nirvana – Breed
    • Pixies – Where Is My Mind?
    • Radiohead – High and Dry
    • Red Fang – Number Thirteen
    • The Rolling Stones – The Spider and the Fly
    • Silversun Pickups – Panic Switch
    • Soundgarden - Outshined
    • Spoon – Me and The Bean
    • Stone Temple Pilots – Vasoline
    • Taddy Porter – Mean *****
    • Titus Andronicus – A More Perfect Union
    • White Denim – Burnished
    • The White Stripes – Icky Thump
    • Yellow Moon Band - Chimney


    Soundgarden exclusive? Other than Where is My Mind? not much to excite me.

    Wow, I thought they would come out swingin'. Looks like the best songs were the ones they played on the demo (The Animals). Not impressed at all by the selection. And why, if they don't need stems, did they not just partner up with Apple and make the game run through i tunes. There is obviously something fishy about this project. I think it is a lot more work to chart the music then we were led to believe.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited June 2011
    You can't see it, but my computer is covered in vomit over Best Coast. Checked them out watching the Coachella stream and...no...
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited June 2011
    dog037;4409021 said:
    New Songs!


    • Best Coast – When I'm With You
    • Blur – Song 2
    • The Black Keys – Next Girl
    • The Boxer Rebellion – Step Out Of The Car
    • Cream – Sunshine Of Your Love
    • The Cribs – We Share The Same Skies
    • The Cure – Boys Don't Cry
    • Jenny O – Well OK Honey
    • Lynyrd Skynyrd – Sweet Home Alabama
    • Nirvana – Breed
    • Pixies – Where Is My Mind?
    • Radiohead – High and Dry
    • Red Fang – Number Thirteen
    • The Rolling Stones – The Spider and the Fly
    • Silversun Pickups – Panic Switch
    • Soundgarden - Outshined
    • Spoon – Me and The Bean
    • Stone Temple Pilots – Vasoline
    • Taddy Porter – Mean *****
    • Titus Andronicus – A More Perfect Union
    • White Denim – Burnished
    • The White Stripes – Icky Thump
    • Yellow Moon Band - Chimney


    Soundgarden exclusive? Other than Where is My Mind? not much to excite me.

    Edit: Source

    Only thing I'm excited about that isn't in Rock Band is Best Coast, and that isn't worth an entire game IMO. Good song, but not that epic.
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