Rocksmith & Rocksmith 2014 discussion thread

Comments

  • Banky71Banky71 Banned on the Run (Live)
    edited March 2011
    If it works it seems better because the fact I can use a guitar I already have.
  • RockoxRockox Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    I'm glad the mods changed the title of this thread. The other one was stupid.
  • dog037dog037 This Many Days Since Last Ban:
    edited March 2011
    It's interesting how licensing for music games has changed. When Guitar Hero first started, they had to use covers for the songs. Now artists like Nirvana and The Rolling Stones will give master tracks to any game that comes along.
  • edited March 2011
    Rockox;4335753 said:
    I'm glad the mods changed the title of this thread. The other one was stupid.
    I am glad to enhance your gladness. :P
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited March 2011
    dog037;4335755 said:
    It's interesting how licensing for music games has changed. When Guitar Hero first started, they had to use covers for the songs. Now artists like Nirvana and The Rolling Stones will give master tracks to any game that comes along.

    It says the audio doesn't cut out if you miss notes, so track-stems aren't necessary.

    I imagine it's also cheaper to just have a song featured in a game, rather than have to get rights to play around with stems.
  • ManLovesRobotManLovesRobot Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    raynebc;4335659 said:
    The authors of both articles are indeed ignorant to the existence of Rock Band 3. They're too lazy to do any real research I suppose.

    The Rolling Stone author knows about RB3. This was in his Twitter feed:

    Industry Experts: Can Rock Band Survive? http://bit.ly/gPUdbt
  • toymachineSHtoymachineSH Headliner
    edited March 2011

    You won't see Gibson putting out a $200 guitar & game bundle unless the guitar in question is an Epiphone Les Paul Junior or Special II (both of which are bottom-of-the-barrel ****e that I wouldn't want to inflict on any new player). Regardless of brand though, at that price point ($200 - $60 for the game because they'll take MSRP into account, minus howevere much this adapter costs which is probably $30-give-or-take going by the various guitar-to-PC adapters there are around now), you'r eloking at a $110 ont he guitar, not including markup of course. Anyone who knows anything about guitars knows that $110 won't even buy you a crap set of tuners, one middle-of-the-road pickup and a set of strings. So they're going to be cutting corners like crazy there.

    As for how it will work, it's actually very simple. It would, I assume, work just like a tuner. You play a note, the system recognises what note that is and if you played the right thing, that'll count. I would assume they won't make it demand full accuracy, to account for people not keeping the guitar perfectly in tune, crap intonation, that sort of thing. There are already lots of systems that allow you to plug a guitar into a computer - I've got one sat on my desk here right now. There's no latency (even though mine has to go guitar > 10ft cable > port > 5ft cable > crap laptop > software > 5ft cable > port > 2x 20ft cable > studio monitors) and it can be far more accurate than any standalone digital tuner or the human ear can be.

    I'm certainly more interested in this than that pile of wank, sorry excuse for a "guitar" that is the RB3 Squier controller. That said, I don't know what its market is. New players can be turned off very quickly by a cheap guitar (and they'll be the ones buying whatever bundle comes out) and playing with tabs - and in this case, effectively automated tabs because we know there's not going to be any ear training in this, it would defeat the point - is just about the most terrible way to learn how to play guitar. People who can actually already play guitar decently won't have any use for it either - who needs a game to bang out a bit of Nirvana, really? Even if you don't have a band and you just want to playa long with something at home, backing tracks are all over the internet.

    The technology is fun (if not actually all that new), this is a step in the right direction and I'll keep my eye on it. At the moment though it's a pretty bizarre idea and I can't see it doing well.
    Comment on Destructoid
  • princessjessa13princessjessa13 Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    If they effing get "House of the Rising Sun" and we don't, I'M GOING TO FLIP AN EFFING TABLE AND RAMPAGE THE OFFICES OF HMX!!!!!
  • Darky_06Darky_06 Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    From the Youtube vids it seems like the entire game starts at playing tabs, and ends at playing tabs with no actual 'game' part attached to it.

    Power Gig pulled the exact same media campaign as this seems to gearing up into. Showing promo vids which deliberatly omit actual gameplay and releasing statements which spend more time hyping its setlist and the fact you can use a real guitar while spreading misinformation about competing products.
  • disruptordisruptor Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    a little disturbed that there is no mention of RB3 pro modes.

    Looks like a glorified way to play tabs along with music. This could also be achieved by looking at tabs, playing guitar along to ipod playing song...

    we'll see I guess.
  • TheHundredDollarHeadacheTheHundredDollarHeadache Pedantic Broken Record
    edited March 2011
    I've come across this: http://www.tcelectronic.com/polytune-iphone-app.asp that is supposed to be able to detect the pitches of multiple strings simultaneously. If they are using this kind of technology, it might work, and would make RB3 Pro Guitar/Bass look like Power Gig.

    Here's hoping they don't make the same stupid mistake that Power Gig made in not offering bass charts. At least being able to play lead/rhythm makes up for it - here's hoping that they will let us do this in multiplayer.

    The amp modeling thing sounds neat, though. It's already cheaper than a Pocket Pod, if it sounds good enough I might consider it.
  • Pitch-BlackPitch-Black Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    I dunno, this could be interesting. I'll admit that I immediately decided against Pro guitar in Arby 3 because of the cost of the squire. I already have 4 much better and much more expensive "real" guitars. I have been playing guitar for 25 years, so Arby 3 as an instructional tool was never of interest to me. However, being able to plug one of MY guitars into a game is definately something appealing. However, I'd have to agree with those questioning how well something like this would work, especially thru a USB cable. But definately something worth keeping an eye on. I'll assume that between now and Sep. there will be more info forethcoming. As for the fact that nobody seems to recognize or even know about the tremendous efforts HMX put into ALL the Pro modes, let alone guitar, it's a crying shame. Apparently this info is on a need to know basis .... and nobody outside of the Rock Band commumity needs to know. And even if "Rocksmith" is a huge success, I doubt it in any way could render Pro guitar mode "primitive".
  • PheranPheran Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    I'm surprised that no one has commented on the Zeppelin reference at the end of the Hollywood Reporter article. These forums are going to go ballistic if Zeppelin ends up in this game.
  • TheHundredDollarHeadacheTheHundredDollarHeadache Pedantic Broken Record
    edited March 2011
    Pitch-Black;4335796 said:
    I dunno, this could be interesting. I'll admit that I immediately decided against Pro guitar in Arby 3 because of the cost of the squire. I already have 4 much better and much more expensive "real" guitars. I have been playing guitar for 25 years, so Arby 3 as an instructional tool was never of interest to me. However, being able to plug one of MY guitars into a game is definately something appealing. However, I'd have to agree with those questioning how well something like this would work, especially thru a USB cable. But definately something worth keeping an eye on. I'll assume that between now and Sep. there will be more info forethcoming. As for the fact that nobody seems to recognize or even know about the tremendous efforts HMX put into ALL the Pro modes, let alone guitar, it's a crying shame. Apparently this info is on a need to know basis .... and nobody outside of the Rock Band commumity needs to know. And even if "Rocksmith" is a huge success, I doubt it in any way could render Pro guitar mode "primitive".
    The reasons I bought my Mustang even though I was in your situation (minus one guitar and 20 years of experience):

    - GameStop's accessory sale making it $120
    - The clothing unlocks - lots of clothes I needed were locked behind Pro G/B goals
    - Being able to become an RB3 Completionist
    - Most importantly: Finally being able to learn "Heart of Glass"

    True, Rocksmith won't make RB3 Pro Guitar look completely useless. The latter knows where your fingers are, which helps with learning chords.
  • toymachineSHtoymachineSH Headliner
    edited March 2011
    But Rocksmith breaks each song into dozens of bite-sized phrases and keeps track of the sections in which the player stumbles and the sections they breeze through. It uses the data to dynamically adjust how difficult to make each phrase, ramping up the areas that players find easy and making up mini-tutorials on the fly for sections in which the player has trouble.

    The game also comes with mini-games aimed at teaching techniques, such as note-bending (where a player plays a note that turns into another note) and sliding (a trick often used by blues musicians to create a wailing sound).
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/03/ubisoft-rocksmith-game-teaches-how-to-play-a-real-guitar.html
  • WitticusWitticus VERY DEEP
    edited March 2011
    It's good to see some competition that has far better ideas for real guitar compared to Powergig. If it really lets you use your own guitar and doesn't require a $200+ adapter to do so, then thats a huge plus. However the lack of finger position showing thats helped me out tremendously in Rock Band 3 is a big downside. Only time will tell though.
  • raynebcraynebc Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    At least that new article has a real in-game screen shot. Back to front scrolling track and a front view of a guitar fretboard. So far, the visuals appear to be a cheap imitation, but this game might be a good secondary game as far as teaching guitar techniques.
  • TheHundredDollarHeadacheTheHundredDollarHeadache Pedantic Broken Record
    edited March 2011
    Okay, it has bending?

    I still wish it had "start with full charts" / "turn off adaptive difficulty for a full run", though.

    As for the guitar Epiphone chose to include in the "bundle" version, the link in the article points to this: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/LP-Express.aspx. They could have done better and offered the full-scale Special II, with option of SG version.
  • Stol-FA-LinStol-FA-Lin Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    This certainly doesn't seem to really compete 1:1 with RB3 and/or the pro modes, other than having a guitar in it. It's more like a tutorial sort of thing? We'll have to see in a few months what's up with the converter etc, for what might be better said to be tab learning or educational software and so on. Nobody in this overall genre is advertising much or saying anything much of substance to anyone, so who knows right now.

    If there's separate lead and rhythm parts with the supposed support for "any guitar with a plug" that could be something, especially when combined with the content. Lead guitar version, rhythm guitar version, acoustic guitar version, bass guitar version? Support for what. Tabs for what. Seeing as how there's a void for bass games/learning tools, maybe somebody will move into it if they don't.

    For now though, it's all just vaporware with no real details anyway. We'll have to wait until later to see. And we're all used to waiting anyway, aren't we?
  • mec_osmec_os Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    yes, you can do bending, you can do all sorts of stuff since it doesn't count against you.
  • LunaticSoulLunaticSoul Rising Star
    edited March 2011
    I've already seen more articles/fuss about this game than the whole RB3 Pro mode. This is kind of sad. The lack of advertisement is not good, honestly.. It's just wasted potential.

    I also disagree with Drake, as if this turns out to be what the first interviews claimed to be (I said IF, a huge IF, as imho "Ubisoft = meh stuff") I think we can say that for the first time HMX has to learn from someone else, as one of the major complaints about pro guitar (I can't use mine boohooohh) is solved.

    However, I think HMX already tried this kind of tech and realized it wasn't good enough for Rock Band, maybe. Mmh, we'll see.
  • princessjessa13princessjessa13 Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    I feel like this isn't so much of a game as it is another way of learning guitar and/or guitar tabs. I might pick it up when it comes out, because by that time I'll have had 6 months of RB pro-guitar, and might just be looking for something to complement my guitar experience.

    I feel like it's not in direct competition with RB. RB is still definitely a GAME game. It just has the added bonus of being able to learn real guitar too. But I know that I'll never play pro-guitar with my friends. When rocking with my friends, I'll always just want a purely game simulation experience that you get by pushing 5 coloured buttons.
  • Mega-TallicaMega-Tallica Washed Up
    edited March 2011
    GNFfhqwhgads;4335496 said:
    They say you can use any guitar...
    If this is true, a lot more people would be interested in Rocksmith than RB3 and Powergig combined.
  • Stol-FA-LinStol-FA-Lin Opening Act
    edited March 2011
    You can already get converters of various sorts. Behringer UCG102, Sonuus G2M, Vox JamVOX, Alesis GuitarLink, Griffin GuitarConnect, TC-Helicon, M-Audio Fast Track, etc. Games that support them seem to be in rather short supply though.

    We'll see.
  • ChodTheWackoChodTheWacko Rising Star
    edited March 2011
    A joystiq posting says that "Rocksmith" is actually a repackaged "guitar rising", which has long been delayed due to 'note interference'. Did they finally work out the kinks?

    And I agree being able to see what your finger positioning is, along with what string you are plucking is a HUGE advantage for rock band 3. Also it's nice that the guitar doesn't have to be in tune to play. There are plenty of things RB3 doesn't do though, so if Guitar rising can do them it would be a good game to also have too.

    I do wonder, if rocksmith just reads pitch, how much point there is of a tablature game interface.
    Unless it's just 'suggested fingerings'.

    - Frank
  • raynebcraynebc Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    If Harmonix worked with Fender some more, they could probably develop a detachable MIDI pickup that would work in RB3. If end users can do this, then there's no reason Harmonix couldn't. And it will allow them to compete by allowing "any steel string guitar".
  • bjyaritzbjyaritz Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    I see them getting Led Zeppelin since Jimmy Page uses a Gibson. If that happens, I will have to buy it. One question, does the Fender Squier work with this game?
  • MagnetMagnet Moderator
    edited March 2011
    Unlike other music games, the audio won’t cut out when you miss notes, nor will you be penalized for any noodling you do between the required notes. In that way, Rocksmith encourages experimentation. There are score-based elements of course, but they can be safely ignored without disrupting your experience. There is also no way to “fail” out of a song and no difficulty settings to adjust. Instead, Rocksmith’s challenge level automatically adapts to how you’re playing, throwing more notes your way as it becomes clear you can handle them.
    Personally, I really don't like any part of this. As far as no way to fail and no audio separation, the point of the game seems a little lost on me. Plus, you can't see your finger positioning on screen to help you learn. I'm just not seeing the appeal of the game. It barely sounds different from looking up a tab and playing along to an mp3.

    Also, "nor will you be penalized for any noodling you do between the required notes. In that way, Rocksmith encourages experimentation." So on a song with a specific strumming pattern (say groups of 3, 4, or 5 notes), instead of doing the pattern, you can just strum straight through, ignoring the pattern entirely with no penalty?

    The part about no difficulty setting and "automatic" adjustments seems like it could be problematic. Let's say there's a song constantly switching up between an easy riff section and a troublesome group of notes and the game tries doing some automatic adjustments for me. If I can hit the easy part, then I get all of the notes shown. But if I start messing up on the hard part, is it going to remove some notes from the next easy section, which I could already hit all of the notes on? Even if it is implemented better than that, I think it'd be extremely difficult to try to learn a song when you could be shown a different grouping of notes each play-through depending on where and how much you mess up.

    As for 45, guitar-only playable songs, I'm probably not going to be overly excited about the setlist and gameplay. I've been enjoying Pro Guitar lately with RB3, but it's really nice to switch to Pro Bass, standard guitar/bass, drums, or keyboard whenever I feel like it - and on a larger number of songs.

    I also foresee the lack of master tracks for these songs making it very difficult for them to correctly tab the songs. I'm sure some people will be very excited to play music from bands who have songs that may not have usable master tracks, but it could be at the expense of less accurate tabs. Trying to accurately tab a guitar track that may be a bit buried under other instruments at times sure sounds annoying for the developers.

    But I think the whole game really boils down to how accurately the game can read and process the input. And when it comes to close-together notes ringing out and chords, I suspect it's going to be extremely lenient on what it counts as accurate. And the more lenient it is, the less impressive and reliable the technology is, and the less useful it will be to the player in terms of getting correct feedback from the game as a learning tool. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how advanced their technology really is.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited March 2011
    toymachineSH;4335891 said:

    that guitar will really make people appreciate the RB3 squier.
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