Song link to Xbox.com not working

SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
edited June 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Before RBN2.0 came along, I would go to Harmonix's song page and listen to the sample of the song that is posted to that song's page. If I liked the sound of the song's sample I would then click on the link that says, "Buy [song name] for Xbox 360™ "

Well, it seems none of the links are working and that the songs don't actually exist on Xbox.com.

Will I no longer be able to use this method to purchase RBN songs? Will I have to buy all of the songs I want through the in-game store? Or, is this just, as I hope, a bug in the new system that just needs to be worked out so we lazy people can still buy songs so they will dl automatically when the system is turned on.

Comments

  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    That is ridiculous. I don't buy ANYTHING from the store or even the dashboard.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited April 2011
    XShagrath;4353968 said:
    There's a thread on this over on the Creators side.

    The short answer is that from now on, RBN songs will only be available through the in-game store.

    Well, that is not the answer I was hoping for. Now, instead of picking up songs on a whim I will have to make an actual effort to buy songs from the in-game store. That equates to less sales to me... I doubt I will go search out Big Kenny's latest song from the RBN store...
  • edited April 2011
    While it sucks, it does make sense. I guess they don't want people buying anything that might get pulled.

    It really does suck though because now you have to wait for your DLC to load then navagate through the store (after waiting for HMX to upload it) then re-load all your DLC.
    I don't even buy HMX DLC through the store anymore because its such a hassle.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, I have not used the in-game stores since Xbox.com started working. I ususally just que my purchases up during my lunch break and they download when I get home and turn on the system.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    I don't buy anything from the in-game store, unless it's a spur-of-the-moment, impulse buy while I'm playing.
  • cwilburcwilbur Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    DragoonXD;4354025 said:
    I don't buy anything from the in-game store, unless it's a spur-of-the-moment, impulse buy while I'm playing.

    I find it interesting that in the post at creators HMX said "Our numbers show that only a small percentage of songs are purchased through the website, and we do not expect any significant downturn in RBN sales from this change."

    I don't have a creators login, but I read a quote of the message here: http://rbnreleases.com/64/why-isnt-anamanaguchi-airbrushed-showing-up

    And yet this thread seems to be 100% people who don't touch the store (including me). I guess the good news is that means HMX is selling RBN songs to more than just us hardcore forum junkies.

    I'll say again here what I just said over at rbnreleases: someone might want to point out to HMX that if their sales numbers referenced above don’t count the demo downloads they might wanna check that.

    I know my usual M.O. with RBN (as far as songs/bands I don’t know) has been:
    1) Download the demo of every 80-point song that hits the marketplace, using the list on rbnreleases (formerly error420)
    2) play them next time I’m on RB
    3) buy the ones I like from the menu at the end of the demo

    So when I actually BUY the songs I do it in-game, but if I have to download the demo initially from the clunky in-game store I’m gonna be cutting back on downloading demos, and that is almost guaranteed to cut back on sales.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, I think a lot of people used rbnreleases, instead of this website. Also, I am pretty sure bands provided links to the songs that HMX wouldn't be able to count... but, if HMX wants to make it harder to purchase RBN songs, it is their call 100%.
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    No one on the Creator's side is happy about the decision either really. I wish they'd change their mind, but it doesn't look very likely.
  • cwilburcwilbur Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    Kariodude;4354269 said:
    No one on the Creator's side is happy about the decision either really. I wish they'd change their mind, but it doesn't look very likely.

    If at all possible, I'd suggest they should set it up so the demos become available on the marketplace. I don't think I've EVER downloaded a demo through the in-game store, and I doubt I'm alone. I've also almost never downloaded an RBN song without playing the demo first (hell, I wish regular DLC had the demos). I don't think I'm representative of a large portion of the RBN buyers, but I also doubt I'm unique.

    I hope when the HMX rep on Creators says they have "numbers [that] show that only a small percentage of songs are purchased through the website" they mean they have numbers that represent sales through the xbox live marketplace vs. in-game, not in-game vs. just rockband.com. I've definitely never bought an RBN song after following a link from this site. I'd hate to think they're using the latter metric to decide to shut down access for the people who buy through links from rbnreleases (or even dlcquickplay, which I've done as well).
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited April 2011
    cwilbur;4354313 said:
    I hope when the HMX rep on Creators says they have "numbers [that] show that only a small percentage of songs are purchased through the website" they mean they have numbers that represent sales through the xbox live marketplace vs. in-game, not in-game vs. just rockband.com. I've definitely never bought an RBN song after following a link from this site. I'd hate to think they're using the latter metric to decide to shut down access for the people who buy through links from rbnreleases (or even dlcquickplay, which I've done as well).
    Sales via the xbox.com marketplace, whether you get the link from error420, rockband.com, or someplace else, all count the same in our stats. And when you combine ALL the sales via both the xbox dashboard (yes, some people did that for RBN1!) and web sales together they aren't really a very significant percentage. Dare I say that it's everyone here on this forum, and a few of their close friends?

    I do understand your frustration. Any time that functionality is taken away I know it seems arbitrary. As we've stated before this is actually the intended functionality for the songs, and it was really just a bug that allowed the links to be available for RBN1.

    As far as downloading demos, now that you can sort by release date it should be easier to go through the new stuff and queue up all the demos in-game for downloading, instead of searching for the newest songs by name (like you had to do in RB2).
  • cwilburcwilbur Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    HMXMister_Game;4354508 said:
    Sales via the xbox.com marketplace, whether you get the link from error420, rockband.com, or someplace else, all count the same in our stats. And when you combine ALL the sales via both the xbox dashboard (yes, some people did that for RBN1!) and web sales together they aren't really a very significant percentage. Dare I say that it's everyone here on this forum, and a few of their close friends?
    It surprises me that the data isn't flawed somehow, but I guess I've always assumed everyone does it my way because it's SO much more convenient to order up demos and songs by pointing and clicking in a web browser than by bumping up and down an in-game list while hunched over my drum controller. Even at home with the game running I get up from the drums and go to the laptop to buy songs.
    HMXMister_Game;4354508 said:
    I do understand your frustration. Any time that functionality is taken away I know it seems arbitrary. As we've stated before this is actually the intended functionality for the songs, and it was really just a bug that allowed the links to be available for RBN1.
    Is there DLC for other games that behaves this way (available only in-game)? I'm not enough of an xbox gamer to have any idea (I own a total of 7 games - 6 have "Rock Band" in the title). Unless this is a really common thing this smells more like a special case feature requested by marketing than a "bug".

    Background note: If I come off as overly harsh, it's because I'm actually a software developer by day, so my distrust of software marketers is reflexive and deeply ingrained....
    HMXMister_Game;4354508 said:
    As far as downloading demos, now that you can sort by release date it should be easier to go through the new stuff and queue up all the demos in-game for downloading, instead of searching for the newest songs by name (like you had to do in RB2).
    That will make it easier, and I'm sure I'll bite the bullet and go queue up the RBN2 songs I've been waiting to see show up on rbnreleases the next time I fire up RB3, but I have a hard time believing any in-game interface could ever be as easy as point-and-click into the xbox.com marketplace.


    Now that I seem to have HMXMister_Game's attention, something from the post at Creators that's been bugging me:
    The announcement I saw copied from Creators said:
    unpublished songs and newly released songs can’t be purchased prior to our release. Plus, we can coordinate launch dates of multiple songs, stage PR stunts, etc.
    I can see where the first part is a good thing for everyone. error420 had a big disclaimer up about buying songs that weren't in the in-game store at your own risk. I can see where the second part is nice for HMX, and maybe for the creators (being able to coordinate simultaneous release of the upcoming Pac Man Fever album tracks comes to mind).

    What I don't get is why you couldn't accomplish the same goals by making sure the downloads don't appear in the xbox.com marketplace until after they appear in the in-game store. I hope this approach was at least considered and the only reason it didn't happen was due to a lack of support for such a scheme in the xbox.com marketplace...
  • KariodudeKariodude Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    The one thing that really gets me, is that if you get the demo from the website, play the demo, then buy it in game, that doesn't count as a website purchase. I'm willing to bet that a LOT of people do it this way, but it would be harder to track.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    Hey, here's an idea! Now that you're doing this latest silly thing, how about fixing it so that songs that can't be purchased via Xbox.com no longer show the link that says that you can purchase them via Xbox.com.

    Or would that be as hard to remove as it would to add the ability to sort by release date?

    And god forbid you guys release an updated version of the RB store app for the 360 so that RBN and RB3 is included. God only knows how much fun it is to have to boot the game to purchase things now. Convenience!
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited April 2011
    Santa Claustrophobia;4354597 said:
    Hey, here's an idea! Now that you're doing this latest silly thing, how about fixing it so that songs that can't be purchased via Xbox.com no longer show the link that says that you can purchase them via Xbox.com.

    Already working on it.
  • cwilburcwilbur Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    Kariodude;4354588 said:
    The one thing that really gets me, is that if you get the demo from the website, play the demo, then buy it in game, that doesn't count as a website purchase. I'm willing to bet that a LOT of people do it this way, but it would be harder to track.

    This was exactly my original point. This is how I bought at least 90% of my RBN1 songs. I hope that in addition to checking sales stats on the full versions for the xbox.com marketplace vs. the in-game store, HMX has checked the same stats for the demos.

    At this point it wouldn't surprise me to find that they have, and that even those numbers are low. It occurs to me that I encountered a long-time hardcore RB player with loads of DLC online the other day who didn't even realize RBN songs HAD demos.
    Santa Claustrophobia;4354597 said:
    Hey, here's an idea! Now that you're doing this latest silly thing, how about fixing it so that songs that can't be purchased via Xbox.com no longer show the link that says that you can purchase them via Xbox.com.
    I see that my posting a link to a copy of the creators post was not enough. Here, have the whole thing (bolding mine)
    DragoonXD [copied from the Creators post] at 15:40 on March 31st, 2011:

    At this time (and for the foreseeable future), RBN2 songs can only be purchased in the in-game Music Store.

    If you try to click through the Buy link on an RBN2 song detail page (example: http://www.rockband.com/songs/UGC_5005724) , you will receive a 404 error from Xbox.com. We will be removing those links and replacing them with a note directing users to the store later this month.

    The lack of web links is intentional. They were always supposed to be hidden from both the in-game marketplace and website marketplace. When RBN2 was launched, this bug was fixed, and all new content is hidden from both. The fact that we had “Buy Now” links on the RBN song pages on rockband.com was a result of our zealous web developers making RBN consistent with DLC. Our numbers show that only a small percentage of songs are purchased through the website, and we do not expect any significant downturn in RBN sales from this change.

    The upside of this from our perspective is that songs are no longer available outside of Rock Band, so unpublished songs and newly released songs can’t be purchased prior to our release. Plus, we can coordinate launch dates of multiple songs, stage PR stunts, etc.
  • Groudon199Groudon199 1 hour, 39 minutes, 52 seconds
    edited April 2011
    cwilbur;4354581 said:
    Is there DLC for other games that behaves this way (available only in-game)? I'm not enough of an xbox gamer to have any idea (I own a total of 7 games - 6 have "Rock Band" in the title). Unless this is a really common thing this smells more like a special case feature requested by marketing than a "bug".

    I know one game that does this, but only for one piece of DLC.
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    cwilbur;4354711 said:
    I see that my posting a link to a copy of the creators post was not enough. Here, have the whole thing (bolding mine)

    Why would just linking to a website unaffiliated (in a direct way) with RBN lead me to understand that I'd have to scroll down fourteen user responses until I see what is essentially a hearsay quote from a website I can't access?
  • axelkotheaxelkothe Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    I don't like it, even though I only ever bought 1 song this way. But I used error420 to keep track of the songs that passed the peer review process and to easily access information about them (price, author, genre etc) without having to boot up the game and access each song individually.

    :( :( :(
  • s0ckMonk3ys0ckMonk3y Unsigned
    edited April 2011
    Kariodude;4354588 said:
    The one thing that really gets me, is that if you get the demo from the website, play the demo, then buy it in game, that doesn't count as a website purchase. I'm willing to bet that a LOT of people do it this way, but it would be harder to track.


    ^This is me... have always downloaded demos via an external source (rbn releases or dlcquickplay, usually) then played the demo and bought from the menu that pops after the demo ends.

    Couple more things:

    While I've never been overly bothered by the dlc load time when booting the game...having to sit through it twice simply because I wanted to buy a few more songs is definitely pushing it :(

    Finally, so I can queue regular dlc purchases through the website marketplace, dashboard marketplace, stand-alone RB store or in-game store... RBN songs? only the in-game store...hard to believe this won't impact sales.
  • Groudon199Groudon199 1 hour, 39 minutes, 52 seconds
    edited April 2011
    s0ckMonk3y;4355137 said:
    While I've never been overly bothered by the dlc load time when booting the game...having to sit through it twice simply because I wanted to buy a few more songs is definitely pushing it :(

    If the "Rock Band Music Store" app didn't show RBN songs as "Currently Unavailable," that would be one option you could use to avoid having to allow the game to load your DLC just to buy a couple songs.
  • Lord_MhoramLord_Mhoram Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    cwilbur;4354581 said:
    It surprises me that the data isn't flawed somehow, but I guess I've always assumed everyone does it my way because it's SO much more convenient to order up demos and songs by pointing and clicking in a web browser than by bumping up and down an in-game list while hunched over my drum controller. Even at home with the game running I get up from the drums and go to the laptop to buy songs.
    To look at it another way.

    Over 40% (appox) of people that have a next generation console never hook it up the internet - according to the last study done. I also have (worthless) anecdotal evidence to this from working at blockbuster in the past. Most adults that played music games had no clue you could hook the machine up to the internet, much less buy regular DLC online.

    Of those that have online connectivity, how many actually buy songs?

    Of those that buy songs how many of them come to this message board (or similar ones).

    I wonder how many people know about Error420/RBN new releases that don't frequent this board.

    Now RBN sales most likely have a higher percentage of people people that fall into the above category than regular DLC or those that just buy the game.

    But I can easily see that a really small portion of sales is from the links.

    Do I like this - no. I found it really convenient to download demos from the web. I have downloaded every demo that has come out with RBN. I've purchased over 500 songs from it.

    But I can see where the numbers are coming from.


    I remember a presentation where they showed what percentage of people played on easy/medium as opposed to expert, and how many fewer played expert drums (based on Achievement data). Those of us that frequent the boards are a very very small percentage of the market of the game.

    So as disappointed in this as I am I can understand the reasoning.
  • edited April 2011
    Lord_Mhoram;4355270 said:
    To look at it another way.

    Over 40% (appox) of people that have a next generation console never hook it up the internet - according to the last study done. I also have (worthless) anecdotal evidence to this from working at blockbuster in the past. Most adults that played music games had no clue you could hook the machine up to the internet, much less buy regular DLC online.

    Of those that have online connectivity, how many actually buy songs?

    Of those that buy songs how many of them come to this message board (or similar ones).

    I wonder how many people know about Error420/RBN new releases that don't frequent this board.

    Now RBN sales most likely have a higher percentage of people people that fall into the above category than regular DLC or those that just buy the game.

    But I can easily see that a really small portion of sales is from the links.

    Do I like this - no. I found it really convenient to download demos from the web. I have downloaded every demo that has come out with RBN. I've purchased over 500 songs from it.

    But I can see where the numbers are coming from.


    I remember a presentation where they showed what percentage of people played on easy/medium as opposed to expert, and how many fewer played expert drums (based on Achievement data). Those of us that frequent the boards are a very very small percentage of the market of the game.

    So as disappointed in this as I am I can understand the reasoning.

    Yes. This.

    We have to remember not to fall into a fallacy of familiarity -- as a community, we are kind of a fringe group. Aficionados, if you will, but we are in no way representative of a majority of DLC buyers. So yes, it does take away some convenience, but the reasoning is there.
  • SideshowNSideshowN Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Getting the links from error420 gave me more incentive to play the game daily because the regular store would only update RBN songs once or twice a week and sometimes skip a week. It just feels like another great component ala easy/fast purchasing has been takin away.
  • HMXMister_GameHMXMister_Game Harmonix Developer
    edited April 2011
    cwilbur;4354581 said:
    Background note: If I come off as overly harsh, it's because I'm actually a software developer by day, so my distrust of software marketers is reflexive and deeply ingrained....
    HEY! I'm a developer, not a marketing drone!
    What I don't get is why you couldn't accomplish the same goals by making sure the downloads don't appear in the xbox.com marketplace until after they appear in the in-game store. I hope this approach was at least considered and the only reason it didn't happen was due to a lack of support for such a scheme in the xbox.com marketplace...

    Because this functionality sits squarely with Microsoft, and their Marketplace content pipeline is a massive and almost impossible to move behemoth. Given that it took them over a year to fix the bug with RBN1 showing up in the first place, can you guess our chances of getting them to add a feature to hide one specific type of content for one title until we mark it as published?

    Go ahead, guess.
    The one thing that really gets me, is that if you get the demo from the website, play the demo, then buy it in game, that doesn't count as a website purchase. I'm willing to bet that a LOT of people do it this way, but it would be harder to track.
    One thing that really surprised me (and the other creators) is how few demos are downloaded, relative to sales. We expected maybe 10 times as many demos as sales, but in fact it's usually the other way around. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? DON'T YOU LIKE FREE THINGS?

    You are correct that the scenario above is counted as an in-game purchase, but given the lack of demo downloads I don't think this has a significant impact on our sales numbers either.
  • cwilburcwilbur Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    HEY! I'm a developer, not a marketing drone!
    I double checked that it said developer under your name before I posted. I wanted to make sure I was corresponding with a reasonable human being ;)
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    Because this functionality sits squarely with Microsoft, and their Marketplace content pipeline is a massive and almost impossible to move behemoth. Given that it took them over a year to fix the bug with RBN1 showing up in the first place, can you guess our chances of getting them to add a feature to hide one specific type of content for one title until we mark it as published?

    Go ahead, guess.
    Sadly, I can guess all too easily. Oh well. Would have been nice.
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    One thing that really surprised me (and the other creators) is how few demos are downloaded, relative to sales. We expected maybe 10 times as many demos as sales, but in fact it's usually the other way around. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? DON'T YOU LIKE FREE THINGS?
    This would surprise me more if I hadn't just met the couple online who were stunned when I talked about downloading demos of RBN songs. "You can download playable demos? REALLY?"

    Maybe the saddest thing about being a software dev is the awareness you get of how little of the information you put in front of people that they actually see and process. Doesn't "DOWNLOAD DEMO" sit directly below "PURCHASE" when you buy an RBN track? And these people I talked to had multiple RBN tracks....
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    You are correct that the scenario above is counted as an in-game purchase, but given the lack of demo downloads I don't think this has a significant impact on our sales numbers either.

    Yeah, if total demos is 1/10 of total sales then I'm out of ammo. I guess you guys are doing the right thing.

    It makes me really sad how, after so much work is put into making things easy for people (error420, dlcqp), so many are incapable of spending the 5 minutes it might take to find those easier alternatives instead of making another slow trip through the wait-for-DLC-load, into-the-store, ignore-demos, wait-for-DLC-load-on-the-way-out cycle again and again and again....

    But then, I see the same thing every time I watch almost anyone use a computer, period. It just makes me want to scream "Holy crap, spend 5 minutes reading the screen and learning the tool! Do in 2 clicks what you're doing here in 12! You'll make your 5 minutes back by next week!"

    I'd better stop now before I derail this thread into a general indictment of the average computer user (and before I even get started on the average computer user INTERFACE, which trains the user to act this way)....
  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    One thing that really surprised me (and the other creators) is how few demos are downloaded, relative to sales. We expected maybe 10 times as many demos as sales, but in fact it's usually the other way around. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? DON'T YOU LIKE FREE THINGS?
    Rock Band 3 is not friendly to the demo model at all. In fact, the way I would do it in the past was to queue up the demo from Error420, play through the songs and if I didn't like it, I'd delete it and go through finding all 1,000 pieces of content again, but if I liked it, I would just mark it on a list and then go download it from the website. That way, if I bought 10 songs, I wouldn't have to sit through the discovery screen 10 times. Now that that method is gone, I'll simply download less demos and count on Youtube videos to make my choice.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    I'm in the party that never bought demos (other than when I was out of points and wanted a taste of the song because I'm impatient). This is why I have all the songs with horrible charts; "Fat Kid", "Black Cloud", "A Slight Amplification", etc. Though I liked all those songs and don't regret my purchases, I can understand why HMX is getting rid of this functionality. But it's still disappointing.
  • BlasteroidsBlasteroids Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? DON'T YOU LIKE FREE THINGS?

    I play mostly drums and find the demos to not be a huge help when working out if a track is fun to play. The biggest thing that sells me tracks for regular and RBN DLC is youtube. If it was not for the vids people put up, I would not have purchased a fair few of the tracks that I have done.

    So to answer your question, no I do not like free RBN demos. But I am sure others love them! For the record, I am probably in the 10:1 RBN purchases:demo ratio :)
  • rab39rab39 Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    I mostly stopped downloading demos because of the glitch that showed purchase songs still showing up as demos and making you delete and redownload. Actually, there's a couple of demos I downloaded already that I want to purchase which I haven't done yet because of that annoying glitch.

    (Also I play mostly vocals - and now keyboards - so many times the demo doesn't even reach the chorus)
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited April 2011
    HMXMister_Game;4356769 said:
    One thing that really surprised me (and the other creators) is how few demos are downloaded, relative to sales. We expected maybe 10 times as many demos as sales, but in fact it's usually the other way around. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? DON'T YOU LIKE FREE THINGS?
    Then you need to re-evaluate your expectations for RBN. It's nice that there are demo versions, but the complaint is still the same: They aren't especially helpful.

    So people turn to YouTube for full videos and buy based on that. Or they buy it based on whether or not they like the band or whatever.

    Couple that with the general unwillingness of people to actually try new things and it's no wonder that demo versions aren't nearly as popular as you thought.

    Add to that only five new songs in over two full weeks and you've got an even bigger problem on your hands. Good thing most of the costs aren't necessarily on your end, eh?
Sign In or Register to comment.