A Song of Ice and Fire (some spoilers inside, watch for SPOILER warnings)

Comments

  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited April 2011
    Der_Lex;4372406 said:
    He did tell Daenerys that she didn't want to 'wake the dragon' by going against his wishes. It did lose a bit of its bite without him being actually physically abusive when he said it, as he was in the book.

    And yes, all of the younger characters have been aged a few years (although I'm not sure about Rickon). In part for the actors' sake, and in part because they had to make Daenerys of modern legal age for obvious reasons. You can't get away with quite as much on TV or in the movies as you can in a book.

    Also, the premiere had over 4 million viewers, and HBO has already picked up the series for a second season. Good times.

    For this first season, anyone know how much of the first book is being covered? The entire first book?
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Der_Lex;4372406 said:
    And yes, all of the younger characters have been aged a few years (although I'm not sure about Rickon). In part for the actors' sake, and in part because they had to make Daenerys of modern legal age for obvious reasons. You can't get away with quite as much on TV or in the movies as you can in a book.
    They also made the change because Martin has more than once said that his biggest regret with the books was the age constraints he has with the children being so young. His initial plan was to have a 4-5 year gap between book 1 and 2 to age everyone "appropriately". After he finished book 1, he realized that the gap just wouldn't work anymore and he was stuck with the ages. So he's been very supportive of aging everyone a few years.
    Sayburr;4372465 said:
    For this first season, anyone know how much of the first book is being covered? The entire first book?
    Yup, they are going to cover the first book. Presumably, they are going to cover a book per season, which seems just about right.
  • SayburrSayburr The Always Informative Rock Band Forum Guru
    edited April 2011
    CrazyIvan;4372505 said:
    Yup, they are going to cover the first book. Presumably, they are going to cover a book per season, which seems just about right.
    I was hoping it would be a little longer than that, there is a lot going on for 13 shows, espec with the books after the first.
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Sayburr;4372522 said:
    I was hoping it would be a little longer than that, there is a lot going on for 13 shows, espec with the books after the first.
    Agreed. Still, 13 hours is a helluva lot longer than most book to movie translations. I think they will trim some fat (not that there is much), and Martin has already mentioned that the writers have combined some characters in the later storylines. There are definitely some redundant characters, so I'm fine with that. Overall, Martin has been extremely impressed with Weiss and Benioff, so I have faith that they are doing it right.
  • edited April 2011
    13 shows? I thought it would only be 10 episodes? I'll be glad to be mistaken on this, of course.
  • bleachedbleached Opening Act
    edited April 2011
    me and my wife watched the premiere and i have to admit i already want the whole series on blu-ray. thats how sold i am on this series. my wife on the other hand had a little difficulty following it b/c she hasn't read the books, so she feels that there is alot of history she doesn't know. i felt that way when i started reading the books. halfway through the first book i felt more settled.

    and i am absolutely stoked for a dance of dragons. but now it feels like forever since i read a feast for crows that i forgot where some of characters plots are at right now. i'm tempted to reread the four books before it comes just to have a refresh so i won't feel a bit lost.

    and as for a dance of dragons. just the name alone of that book has me sold on it. i can only imagine what is going to happen in it.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    Is it just the younger kids that were aged a few years, or was it also the teenaged ones? Robb, Jon, etc.
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    instantdeath999;4372790 said:
    Is it just the younger kids that were aged a few years, or was it also the teenaged ones? Robb, Jon, etc.

    I'm pretty sure they aged all of the "kids", including the teenaged ones. For example, Robb and Jon sure don't look 16 in the show. I have a feeling that the scene where they got a shave was done for the express purpose of making them seem "older". I'm guessing they are in the 17-18 range now.

    So I don't think everyone was aged at the same rate, but the older "children" are definitely more adult now, while the very young children are more like 10-12. Personally, it makes a lot of sense to me. I actually tuned out the ages after a while because I just couldn't believe that Bran was 9, Dany was 15, and Robb was 16 with everything they were doing. Might be more "historically" accurate, but it just didn't sit well with me.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    Well, at the beginning of Game of Thrones, Bran is actually 8, Jon is 14, and Dany finds she's pregnant at 14, though I'm sure they age over the course of the series. I don't mind the ages increased a bit, either.
  • CycoMiko138CycoMiko138 Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Der_Lex;4372611 said:
    13 shows? I thought it would only be 10 episodes? I'll be glad to be mistaken on this, of course.
    Yeah, as far as I'm aware, the first season is supposed to be only 10 episodes and deals entirely with the first book. There was an interview with Martin somewhere - I wish I could find it - and he mentions that the second season would follow "A Clash of Kings", but the sheer length of "A Storm of Swords" and the amount of content in it would most likely require 2 seasons. Plus, the split narrative of "A Feast for Crows" and "A Dance with Dragons" would need to be fused together and could take up 3 more seasons. I hope the show does well enough to actually last that long. It might even give old George enough time to finish the series! *fingers crossed*
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    I'm definitely curious about that; what in the world will they do once they inevitably catch up with George's books? :)

    Who knows, maybe this will encourage George to finish the series more quickly, since he'll probably want to stay ahead if he's closely involved with the show.
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    You're all right... it's only 10 episodes. Not sure why I had 13 in my head. Still... ten hours for a book adaptation is just awesome. Especially since it's ten "real" hours, meaning no commercial breaks.

    And I do worry about the show catching up to Martin. As it stands, he has mentioned a number of times that he might end up going beyond his originally planned 7 books. At his current pace, we won't get to the end until... what... 2020 or so? By then, the show will either be cancelled or completed.
  • edited April 2011
    Just watched the second episode. Still good, but like the second LotR movie, this had a lot more changes from the books that I didn't quite agree with than the first one. I'll try to keep this spoiler-free, but especially the scene with Jon Snow and Catelyn lost a lot in translation to the screen... possibly to make Cat a more sympathetic heroine, but I don't really feel she needs to be.

    The excellent casting continues with Ser Ilyn Payne, though.
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Spoilers ahead... kinda'.

    For the most part, I think this episode was just as solid, if not more solid, than the first episode. The talk between Ned and Robert was beyond perfect, Tyrion was awesome as expected, and I thought the scene with Lady was very well done. And Sophie is an extremely talented young actress in her portrayal of Arya.

    I do agree that the changes were... strange. Although Cat was cold to Jon, it was definitely missing the "Should have been you" line. I'm also not sure what to think of the Cersei and Cat bit. Are they trying to play up the fact that Cersei wasn't always evil? The new scene with Jaime and Jon was awesome, though.

    Overall, I'm giving this show an A+ and couldn't have asked for a better translation to the small screen.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    So, apparently the series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire", and somehow, I've never noticed it. Yes, I'm a dope :o

    I do think Fire and Ice sounds better, so I much have just read the title once and assumed... I don't know.

    I really enjoyed the second episode, but didn't notice too many changes. However, I wholeheartedly agree with Lex that they changed Jon and Catelyn's interaction too much; she's not nearly as scornful or unlikable at that point. I still don't really like Catelyn in the book (up to about page 400), though at that point I reviled her.

    I'm feeling everyone's casting, except for Jon. I picture Jon much more energetic and spirited than how he's betrayed, and I just don't like a beard on him. Two in particular that are cast really well are Arya and Joffrey... the latter of which really reminds me of that kid in Harry Potter, Malfoy or something. It was a bit strange for Sansa to be so tall, but she fits rather well.
  • CycoMiko138CycoMiko138 Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    Great news, people! The beast is dead! A Dance with Dragons is finally finished!

    http://grrm.livejournal.com/212603.html

    July can't get here soon enough!
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    Hm, at the rate I'm reading, I wonder if I can read all of the previous entries in the series in time for the July release? Of course, then I'd have another five years to wait for the next entry :(
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited April 2011
    instantdeath999;4379864 said:
    Hm, at the rate I'm reading, I wonder if I can read all of the previous entries in the series in time for the July release? Of course, then I'd have another five years to wait for the next entry :(
    LOL Yeah, I would suggest taking your time and absorbing the books. It's been a realllllllly long and painful wait for DwD to come out, and I have a feeling the next book will be just as far away.

    Also, as a side note, does anyone have the historical reasons behind HBO not offering their shows on a pay-per-view basis? Meaning, you HAVE to be a cable consumer to watch their shows. I completely understand if they want you to pay for their shows. Personally, I would drop pretty much whatever they asked for to watch it in HD online. But I am not, nor will I ever be, a cable subscriber. Which means... well... I don't think I need to spell out how I am able to watch the show.

    In this day and age, isn't this an archaic way of doing business? Why would you not tap into the very, very large population of people that don't have cable but want to watch the show legally? I just don't get it.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited April 2011
    Perhaps they believe, correctly or not, that fans of the show would likely fall into a rather niche audience? Martin's series is popular, to be sure, but beyond Tolkien, CS Lewis, JK Rowling and the like, fantasy isn't really a casual genre. Perhaps they believe those who would want to watch the show would want to badly enough to get cable. Although, thinking that over, I don't believe that makes a bit of sense either.

    I can completely understand not caring about cable. My family has always had cable, but I only got it in my room because we recently moved. My dad is an avid football fan, my mom has a few shows she watches, my younger brother loves the cartoon channels, but I really don't use cable. Currently, the only show I watch is Game of Thrones, and occasionally I'll have Adult Swim on in the background. I would probably never pay for cable, if I were the only one using it.

    Anyway, as I'm getting further in the book, I'm really intrigued by Viserys. Sick bastard, truly. I've heard that Dany is an unpopular character, though I haven't seen anything to make me dislike her yet.
  • Oscar-RioOscar-Rio 0/10
    edited April 2011
    i think show is poorly done. It's the same usual tripe that fill all medieval shows with very few new angles or characters. I fell asleep during the first episode shortly after they suckered me in with the dark and brooding opening scene....jerks.
  • FloodOneFloodOne Headliner
    edited April 2011
    Oscar-Rio;4382673 said:
    i think show is poorly done. It's the same usual tripe that fill all medieval shows with very few new angles or characters. I fell asleep during the first episode shortly after they suckered me in with the dark and brooding opening scene....jerks.

    I'm guessing you haven't read the books, the show is pretty much following the story page for page. Minus a handful of cuts or tweaks, mind you, they're inevitable in a novel adaptation.

    Lex knows, this is my favorite fantasy series by far. Far less predictable than most fantasy, set in a world where magic and mythic creatures are the boogeymen that parents use to scare their children.

    (minor spoilers ahead?)

    As far as Jon Snow's story arc is concerned, I feel like he will die in Dance. As the commander of the Night's Watch, I just feel like he won't survive the inevitable destruction of the Wall. And if he does go, I will be immeasurably sad. Snow is one of my favorites in the series, and is one of the best written characters I've had the pleasure of knowing.

    (end theoretical spoilers)

    As far as the show having a niche audience, the Neilsen numbers beg to differ. The premiere had such a huge audience that they greenlit the second season already, and episode two maintained a huge percentage of the initial audience, which is incredibly rare especially for a fantasy based show.

    Man, it's been a long time since I posted here, but this series is something I love to discuss. Maybe I'll come out of retirement, Nature Boy style, for a little bit to continue this thread along.
  • edited May 2011
    I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Oscar doesn't like something. ;)

    Still, disliking something does not automatically warrant saying it's 'poorly done'. Think of the plot what you will (although I'd think that if you give the whole season a watch, you can't exactly call it predictable, with characters that evolve in interesting ways or whose story is cut short in very abrupt ways), but the acting, cinematography and props and costumes are all top-notch, especially for TV standards. The only thing that hasn't really impressed me yet is the music.

    Looking forward to watching episode 3 tomorrow.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, I honestly consider the most memorable part of the Lord of the Rings films the music. I can't remember much of the music from Game of Thrones, however, the past two episodes have been heavy on character development and light on action, so that might be why the music hasn't jumped out and grabbed me yet.
  • edited May 2011
    Just saw episode 3. Best episode yet, because every alteration from and addition to the books actually worked brilliantly and added a lot to the existing narrative from the books, barring one thing (the scene with Dany and Viserys... like the bridal night scene in ep 1, again an important decision she makes in the books is made by someone else instead. I don't know why the writers want to keep her relatively meek and powerless longer). That was more than balanced out by the excellent new scenes with Robert and Cersei/Joffry, though.

    Casting-wise, I have to admit that Littlefinger doesn't work for me. In the books he's a witty, sarcastic bastard, in the show he just seems snivelly and weaselly. But, again, more than balanced out by the rest of the cast. Absolute highlight for me was Syrio Forel... they found a great actor who can actually handle a sword, and what was already one of my favorite 'minor' scenes in the book became even more of a joy to watch on-screen.

    Also, hurray for a Dunk and Egg reference!
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited May 2011
    I agree with Syrio Forel, excellent casting on him. Very strange character. I highly enjoyed the episode, although I personally wish they would have gone into Jon's friendship with Tyrion a bit more. I really enjoyed the "friend" scene between them in the book.

    For the next episode, I'm hoping Samwell will make an appearance. Curious what he will look like.

    Also, what do you mean about the Dany scene? What important decision does she not make? I must have missed it.
  • edited May 2011
    As not to spoil anything for those who haven't seen it yet: the decision the bloodrider makes regarding Viserys' mount. In the book, this is the first time Dany stands up to her brother. The way it was presented in the show, she only ends up protecting him in the scene. Combined with taking away her consent in the bridal night scene in episode one, she's not presented as as strong a character as in the books, which is a shame.

    As for Jon/Tyrion, I'm amazed they're managing to cram as much character development into the show as it is, considering the breakneck pace they have to keep up to make everything fit into 10 episodes.
  • instantdeath999instantdeath999 Washed Up
    edited May 2011
    I did notice the breakneck speed a bit, in the Council scenes with Ned, the ones concerning Robert's death They were talking quite fast.

    Spoiler warning for the book





    Perhaps Dany's meekness here is to build up to the scene where she actually hits him? The scene where he's essentially spitting on all of her gifts.




    End spoiler.
  • Oscar-RioOscar-Rio 0/10
    edited May 2011
    FloodOne;4383176 said:
    I'm guessing you haven't read the books, the show is pretty much following the story page for page. Minus a handful of cuts or tweaks, mind you, they're inevitable in a novel adaptation.
    no i haven't read the book series, but that doesn't change anything about this show for me on a personal level. So you can't really hate on me for this reason because i can claim some minor negligence in this area. How well a book translates from print to film isn't enough for me to get on board if i feel the show should have been approached differently.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge sucker for medieval/fantasy based anything, but this show is just so formulaic in the HBO realm that i can't help but be critical of it, because i want to it be something more than it is.

    I felt a little betrayed by the awesome opening of the first episode only to have the show kind of pitter off into just another HBO drama chalk full of sex, d-cup t*ts and shirtless michaelangelo-esque guys. I won't even really get into the wardrobe/costume/set gripes i have with the show, because it's not as much of a deal breaker as the entire tone of the show was/is.
    Der_Lex;4383547 said:
    I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Oscar doesn't like something. ;)

    Still, disliking something does not automatically warrant saying it's 'poorly done'.
    ;) oh you know, if i wasn't a bit of a cynical critic i probably wouldn't have graduated post-secondary and have my current job. Anyways, i think the show is well done in terms of its cinematography, but it's the way the entire show is approached and how certain element of HBO's shows feel like they're put in because it's what HBO fans have come to expect. I suppose my rant is more directed at HBO's incessant need to blast the screen with flesh and sexuality at any chance they can. I find the scenes like that completely detract from the show.


    Another side note; i usually can't relate to shows where the focus heavily revolves around royalty/royal families. I can't interject and relate to that.
  • CrazyIvanCrazyIvan Rising Star
    edited May 2011
    I agree about the portrayal of Dany. They really have taken her strength away, and outside of the scene in episode 3 where she's lying in Drogo's arms, she really doesn't have much character to her. Which is a shame. However, I have a feeling that will change by the end of the season. Maybe they will have her suggest the "golden crown" for Viserys?

    Otherwise, I loved episode 3. Syrio was beyond perfect, and I am really, really impressed with the acting chops of Maisie Williams. So good for a girl her age. I also really enjoyed the Jaime/Ned scene in the throne room, and I love how Jaime initially shows wounded pride whenever Ned or Robert calls him the kingslayer, but ultimately just rolls with the punches. Shows depth to his character that I assume will only grow as the seasons roll along.

    Also.... MAJOR spoilers....




    How heart-wrenching was it watching Catelyn ride away after her touching moment with Ned knowing it was the last time they would see each other.


    End MAJOR spoilers.
  • edited May 2011
    Oscar-Rio;4384903 said:
    ;) oh you know, if i wasn't a bit of a cynical critic i probably wouldn't have graduated post-secondary and have my current job. Anyways, i think the show is well done in terms of its cinematography, but it's the way the entire show is approached and how certain element of HBO's shows feel like they're put in because it's what HBO fans have come to expect. I suppose my rant is more directed at HBO's incessant need to blast the screen with flesh and sexuality at any chance they can. I find the scenes like that completely detract from the show.

    In all fairness, the flesh and sexuality are in the books as well. It's not something added randomly. It probably gets a bit more focus because generally speaking boobies = viewers, but I see that as the price you pay for having HBO-levels of harsh, graphic violence in there as well. And although the story could do without the former, it absolutely needs the latter. Westeros is a harsh and gritty world in comparison to most bright and shiny fantasy settings, and you need the sheer brutality on screen to truly show that.

    But it's definitely a show about lords and ladies, even though commoners play a large role (especially the Night's Watch from the series opening). If that's something you can't relate to, that's all right, then the show is simply not for you. There's plenty of otherwise good (and not so good) shows I can't relate to either. Also nothing wrong with being critical, although I do feel cynicism is taking it a bit too far. Personally I've always preferred treating everything as one big joke, life's a lot more fun that way. :)
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