PS3 2x Bass Pedal Interest?

HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
edited July 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Many RBN metal songs are being released on Rock Band with two versions. There's the regular version (which isn't marked in any way) and the 2x Bass Pedal version.

A 2x Bass Pedal version of a song is identical in all respects to the original version of the song except that the Expert Drum and Pro Drum tracks cannot be played on a standard Rock Band drum kit. They are created specifically for Expert Drum and Pro Drum players who have two bass pedals and can play nonstandard versions of the song.

To date, we have not brought any 2x Bass Pedal RBN songs to PS3. Should we? This poll is specifically to help me evaluate player interest (and disinterest).

Comments

  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    Der_Lex;4438268 said:
    Considering the limited number of slots available per week, I'd say go for the version that is accessible to the largest number of people, ie the regular version.

    That's the thing, as far as accesibility goes, most people don't even make it to expert, so having a 2x version wouldn't hurt them
  • edited July 2011
    TubaDude49;4438332 said:
    That's the thing, as far as accesibility goes, most people don't even make it to expert, so having a 2x version wouldn't hurt them

    That's a fair point to make, actually. I guess then it becomes the question of what percentage of expert players wants to play double bass and/or has that extra bass pedal readily available. If most expert players only have the stock kit, you'd be denying them the possibility of playing the song on their usual difficulty. On the other hand, you'd be denying those that want to play double bass the opportunity to play their way if you go for the 'single pedal only' route.

    It's a tough call, because either way will leave some players unhappy and there's no inherently 'better' option (at most, you can say single pedal only has been the HMX way of doing it, so it'd be good to stay in that mold, although you could just as easily say that RBN is the perfect opportunity to break that mold), but I think there has to be a choice, because I think we can all agree that we don't want to 'waste' the limited weekly PS3 RBN slots on a second version of a song that has only a marginal difference (I'd personally be fine with getting full RB3 versions of older RBN tracks, however).

    Personally, I'm fine with either way of doing it: I do have an extra bass pedal from my RB1 kit, so I could give double bass a try if any of the songs I like (most likely AD) would only have their double bass pedal versions released on the PS3. If it turns out to be too tough, I could just drop down to hard (which I have to do with most AD songs anyway).
  • ZemanatorZemanator Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    ii think a better way to judge instead of asking the forums is to release one 2x bass version, see how it does, and then judge weather it's worth releasing more or not
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    Zemanator;4438366 said:
    ii think a better way to judge instead of asking the forums is to release one 2x bass version, see how it does, and then judge weather it's worth releasing more or not

    Unless you also release the single bass version at the same time, there's no control and so no way to tell if sales are based on it being a double bass version or based on the song itself.
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited July 2011
    AskariNari;4437623 said:
    IMO this is the most viable option, having a double bass switch along with the cymbal switches and then have kick notes that in the MIDI data are marked to only appear if that switch is flipped.
    This would require both a major revamp of the RBN pipeline and a patch to the game. It's a nice idea in the abstract, but it really isn't feasible.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    HMXLachesis;4438412 said:
    This would require both a major revamp of the RBN pipeline and a patch to the game. It's a nice idea in the abstract, but it really isn't feasible.
    Rock Band 4 feature? :rolleyes:
  • PankrazzoPankrazzo Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    Oscarvarium;4438418 said:
    Rock Band 4 feature? :rolleyes:

    Should already have been in RB3.
  • DrilnothDrilnoth Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    If both can be released without it cutting into the 5-a-week limit, I'd like to see both versions. Otherwise, just the normal version, please. If someone doesn't have two pedals, they can't play 2x bass tracks and so there should be at least the option of playing the track normal-speed. Since people with two bass pedals can play 1x bass songs, that should be the standard since it is available to all drummers, not just those which have two pedals.

    On a separate note, why is there still no "Master" difficulty for drums which has double bass for all songs with it charted?
  • DrilnothDrilnoth Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    NoThru22;4435240 said:
    The limit is placed by Sony, not Harmonix. They get 5 songs a week, period.

    Any idea why Sony placed that limit? It seems to me that they'd probably make more money if more DLC was available...
  • edited July 2011
    Drilnoth;4438450 said:
    Any idea why Sony placed that limit? It seems to me that they'd probably make more money if more DLC was available...

    Because they do not have unlimited manpower for QA testing PSN content each week. They have to test every piece of content supplied by third parties.
  • NumskullNumskull Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    I don't play drums and I don't care for most of the metal that makes its way onto RBN (Visions-style difficulty tiering is an instant turnoff), so I won't claim to have a big stake in this. But my gut feeling is that it's better to release standard versions. And, of course, it should go without saying that we should not have two slightly different versions of the same song when we only get five each week.
  • DrilnothDrilnoth Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    Der_Lex;4438453 said:
    Because they do not have unlimited manpower for QA testing PSN content each week. They have to test every piece of content supplied by third parties.

    Dang. Sony, you want to hire me? I can at least test songs for content... :p

    I have to admit, this is the one point where I find one of Microsoft's products superior to other companies'. It especially bugs me if Sony is the one holding things up.
  • edited July 2011
    Drilnoth;4438543 said:
    Dang. Sony, you want to hire me? I can at least test songs for content... :p

    I have to admit, this is the one point where I find one of Microsoft's products superior to other companies'. It especially bugs me if Sony is the one holding things up.

    I'd imagine Microsoft has about the same weekly capacity for online content QA testing. What they have that Sony doesn't, though, is the XNA Framework, that makes it unnecessary for them to be involved at all in the QA process, leaving that to peer review instead. So it's not that Sony's QA is insufficient, it's that Microsoft offers a service that Sony doesn't (which does make the Xbox a superior and even crucial platform for RBN purposes).
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    I'll admit I'm torn on this.

    [LIST=1]
    [*]I don't buy most of the content that would be effected by this, so from that aspect it doesn't effect me.
    [*]Even if I did buy said content, I have trouble playing expert on songs of the difficulty most 2X Bass pedal songs would be at anyway, let alone suddenly learn how to use the 2nd pedal.
    [/LIST]

    What's best for most folks? Well, I don't see a lot of folks being effected either way. The normal charts have the least downside. 2X players can still play them, and normal players can too. The 2X charts make the 2X players happy (which may or may not be the majority of folks buying the song to play expert anyway), but normal folks are limited to hard, or an otherwise impossible for them expert chart.

    So, while I don't have a real horse in this race, I think the normal pedals will be the least problematic for most folks.
  • DLCquickplayDLCquickplay Unsigned
    edited July 2011
    With the 5 song weekly limit, it wouldn't be fair to other songs.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    DLCquickplay;4439938 said:
    With the 5 song weekly limit, it wouldn't be fair to other songs.
    They're talking one or the other, not one or both.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    With the five song per week limit, I would prefer only one version of any song. Please no 2x bass.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited July 2011
    lvmathemagician;4440575 said:
    With the five song per week limit, I would prefer only one version of any song. Please no 2x bass.
    You'd only get one. This thread is to discuss if it should be the 2x or the regular.
  • NoThru22NoThru22 Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    GNFfhqwhgads;4440621 said:
    You'd only get one. This thread is to discuss if it should be the 2x or the regular.
    It looks like he understands that and posted his opinion on the matter.
  • LunaticSoulLunaticSoul Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    Bront20;4440471 said:
    They're talking one or the other, not one or both.

    Then no, as RB drummers with one pedal are the majority.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    LunaticSoul;4440761 said:
    Then no, as RB drummers with one pedal are the majority.

    I'm not 100% sure about that, at least for folks who regularly play songs that might require 2X bass, but I think that there's less overall negative effect if we get only the regular chart, because I'd rather have folks be upset that they don't get the extra pedal chart rather than folks upset because they can't play the chart they got.

    I find it amusing that the Wii vote is the most popular though.
  • LunaticSoulLunaticSoul Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    Bront20;4440928 said:
    I'm not 100% sure about that, at least for folks who regularly play songs that might require 2X bass, but I think that there's less overall negative effect if we get only the regular chart, because I'd rather have folks be upset that they don't get the extra pedal chart rather than folks upset because they can't play the chart they got.

    I find it amusing that the Wii vote is the most popular though.


    Just take a look @ Keldon, and see how x2 bass version sell half, if not 1/4, of the single bass version :p, hence there are more players with only one pedal.

    Example:
    Ghostly Echoes (2x Bass Pedal) Amberian Dawn 51
    Ghostly Echoes Amberian Dawn 2011-06-30 188

    --
    Alaska Between the Buried and Me 2011-05-17 1,293
    Alaska (2x Bass Pedal) Between the Buried and Me 668

    --

    If they are not willing to give us a 2x bass version a week (5+1 songs).
    The only thing that could happen is something like this: they remove the Easy chart and place the one pedal chart as Hard and the two pedal as Expert.

    I think it's the only reasonable and possible choice, otherwise they should just stick with the normal version..
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    LunaticSoul;4441024 said:
    Just take a look @ Keldon, and see how x2 bass version sell half, if not 1/4, of the single bass version :p, hence there are more players with only one pedal.

    Example:
    Ghostly Echoes (2x Bass Pedal) Amberian Dawn 51
    Ghostly Echoes Amberian Dawn 2011-06-30 188

    --
    Alaska Between the Buried and Me 2011-05-17 1,293
    Alaska (2x Bass Pedal) Between the Buried and Me 668

    --

    If they are not willing to give us a 2x bass version a week (5+1 songs).
    The only thing that could happen is something like this: they remove the Easy chart and place the one pedal chart as Hard and the two pedal as Expert.

    I think it's the only reasonable and possible choice, otherwise they should just stick with the normal version..
    I've always taken the numbers with a grain of salt because not every song was released simultaneously, but yeah, it does show that it's not a huge market.

    I like the difficulty shifting idea, but folks complain that people who play on easy are screwed with that setup, and I agree since there's only 1 version they can't really do that.
  • PeridotWeaponPeridotWeapon Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    LunaticSoul;4441024 said:
    The only thing that could happen is something like this: they remove the Easy chart and place the one pedal chart as Hard and the two pedal as Expert.
    That seemed like a no-brainer to me as well ... until I remembered that the scrolling speed of the notes is connected to the difficulty level.

    Just try and tell someone who wants to play the Hard difficulty chart that they need to do it at Medium speed. Not even Breakneck Speed can make THAT molasses playable. :)
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    FYI, on a related note, I made a poll about RB3 versions on the PS3. Seemed relevant.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    If the songs being ported over from xbox have a 2x version, then I want that superior version with accurate charting to be ported, not the version that is nerfed down. The people who don't want to play with two pedals can play on hard. I would automatically buy any song released with 2x bass charting just to give my left leg a workout. Thank you HMXLachesis for starting this thread whether or not we get any proper double bass charting
  • LunaticSoulLunaticSoul Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    PeridotWeapon;4441747 said:
    That seemed like a no-brainer to me as well ... until I remembered that the scrolling speed of the notes is connected to the difficulty level.

    Just try and tell someone who wants to play the Hard difficulty chart that they need to do it at Medium speed. Not even Breakneck Speed can make THAT molasses playable. :)

    Ouch, totally true o_o. Then the RB3 PS3 engine is not ready for 2x versions..
  • PeridotWeaponPeridotWeapon Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    A bit of number-crunching here.

    Marianas Trench is the most popular (2x Bass Pedal) song available on the 360 at this point, having slightly over 2,000 unique player names on the leaderboard (compared to 3,600 for the standard version).


    The breakdown of solo scores:

    Guitar Standard Version (2,100) VS Guitar on 2x Version (1,200)
    Bass Standard Version (733) VS Bass on 2x Version (383)
    Drums Standard Version (1,600) VS Drums on 2x Version (701)
    Pro Drums Standard Version (600) VS Pro Drums on 2x Version (580)
    Vocals Standard Version (537) VS Vocals on 2x Version (324)


    About 80% of the drum scores on the 2x Version are from the Expert chart. (This doesn't necessarily mean that 20% of the players haven't ever TRIED the 2x Bass chart, but they might have decided to replay it on Hard after discovering their feet didn't move as quickly as they thought they could.)
  • LunaticSoulLunaticSoul Rising Star
    edited July 2011
    dansolo;4441766 said:
    If the songs being ported over from xbox have a 2x version, then I want that superior version with accurate charting to be ported, not the version that is nerfed down. The people who don't want to play with two pedals can play on hard. I would automatically buy any song released with 2x bass charting just to give my left leg a workout. Thank you HMXLachesis for starting this thread whether or not we get any proper double bass charting

    So everyone with a RB1 setting gets automatically screwed because they can't have double bass? I'm sorry but this decision should be made to make the majority of the customers happy and it's clear that 2x bass version don't sell as much as the normal version. If they don't find a way to bring them without putting them inside the 5 songs a week, then it's counterproductive for them.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann Stormtrooper
    edited July 2011
    PeridotWeapon;4442504 said:
    About 80% of the drum scores on the 2x Version are from the Expert chart. (This doesn't necessarily mean that 20% of the players haven't ever TRIED the 2x Bass chart, but they might have decided to replay it on Hard after discovering their feet didn't move as quickly as they thought they could.)
    What percentage of the Standard version drum scores are on Expert? That's the real interesting question, because if it's a particularly low percent then the argument that they could just buy the 2x version would make sense.
    LunaticSoul;4442936 said:
    So everyone with a RB1 setting gets automatically screwed because they can't have double bass?
    The original official replacement pedal from Madcats include a double bass adapter, so you could string two pedals together for use with the RB1 kit or the RB1-2 software. I don't know if they still sell them that way but the option is out there.

    I do agree that the only way this could work would be for Sony and Harmonix to agree on a compromise where the 1x and 2x versions "count as one," even if it does mean putting an extra file through playtesting. Otherwise I don't see it working out.
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