Strobe lights in metal songs, *ugh*

startDaemonsstartDaemons Unsigned
edited August 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Does anyone else hate it when RBN authors use a strobe lighting effect in a metal song? It looks cool and all but it can be really distracting.

The best example I know of would be Alaska by Between the Buried and Me, the lighting follows the frenetic kick patterns and flashes from nothing to bright white.

I don't think HMX intended the lighting to be used like that or you would see it in official songs.

Comments

  • turnitup321turnitup321 Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    So?

    Also, RBN authors don't have to work only within HMX precedent. Some unconventional moves:

    *Charting two-hand keyboard parts (Andromeda songs)
    *Ghost vocals (some of the upcoming Ziltoid tracks)
    *Pizzicato strings charted to drums (Bang on a Can stuff)
    *Saxes, vuvuzuelas, etc. on vocals (too common to count)

    I don't see how strobes during OMGWTFBBQ kick sections are worse than those.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    turnitup321;4451377 said:

    I don't see how strobes during OMGWTFBBQ kick sections are worse than those.
    It's worse because it can seriously hurt people. Or at least make you unable to see from watery eyes.
  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    edited July 2011
    It get's ya in the dancin mood ;)
  • turnitup321turnitup321 Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    He seemed to be saying that using strobes in metal tracks was wrong because it's something HMX does not do, so I corrected him.

    But to cite the real point, many of the ScoreHero beasts (a.k.a. the people who purchase this kind of stuff) have no problem with it.
  • atalkingfishatalkingfish Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    turnitup321;4451377 said:
    *Charting two-hand keyboard parts (Andromeda songs)
    *Ghost vocals (some of the upcoming Ziltoid tracks)
    *Pizzicato strings charted to drums (Bang on a Can stuff)
    *Saxes, vuvuzuelas, etc. on vocals (too common to count)

    1) Check the videos, Andromeda songs are charted as the keyboardist plays them
    2) Ghost vocals suck, and just because they pass into the RBN doesn't make them okay
    3) That's also incorrect, and doesn't justify anything
    4) There's no problem with that

    Seriously, though, just because you can point out 3 other things that shouldn't happen in the RBN doesn't make every charting error okay.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    Why are we discussing "charting" errors? The amount of strobes has nothing to do with any of that.
  • atalkingfishatalkingfish Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    DragoonXD;4451460 said:
    Why are we discussing "charting" errors? The amount of strobes has nothing to do with any of that.

    Well, strobe lights, much like charting errors, are decisions made by authors.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited July 2011
    I hope the upcoming Watain track has enough strobes to make my eyes bleed pig-blood.
  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    edited July 2011
    afterstasis;4451474 said:
    I hope the upcoming Watain track has enough strobes to make my eyes bleed pig-blood.

    And than pour me a glass!
  • DavyinaTogaDavyinaToga Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    atalkingfish;4451467 said:
    Well, strobe lights, much like charting errors, are decisions made by authors.

    There's a difference between charting errors and bad stylistic choices. Errors are definitive, stylistic choices are debatable. Venues are pretty much only about stylistic choices by nature.

    "Alaska" is an extreme example of strobe use in metal songs. The final venue in the store version is TAME compared to what the venue was in its original playtest. I've noticed that a lot of RBN venues more closely resemble actual live show stages, and metal bands do like their strobe. Of course, would anybody rather have strobe in a, say, jazz or pop rock song?
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited July 2011
    I distinctly remember an annoying amount of strobe in "Battery".
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    SirDavidTLynch;4451755 said:
    I distinctly remember an annoying amount of strobe in "Battery".
    And "B.Y.O.B."
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited July 2011
    If you don't like strobes that much, then stay clear from Death In General. It's chiptune music, but it still has it's OMGWTFBBQ strobe moments. I added them to emphasize intensity, as this song is very intense.

    I can see how people are annoyed by them, though. I had to tone down a part of the lighting in that song because a seizure-sensitive playtester said it was way too intense. I really don't want to cause anything like that to happen. I couldn't live with myself.
  • FiGMarcusFiGMarcus Unsigned
    edited July 2011
    Indeed. I can't even play songs with strobes very well. Whenever I author venues for my stuff, I never use strobes. There's only one point where I've ever been tempted to, and it was in Bumblefoot's "Turn Around", when the line "Blinding me!" comes up. I opted to go for a bright post proc effect instead though, to avoid the irritating strobes...
  • startDaemonsstartDaemons Unsigned
    edited July 2011
    To clarify, I meant HMX didn't mean for the lighting to be used as a strobe, and yeah I'm sure you could find a HMX song with some kind of strobe effect but what's more telling is the complete lack of it in the mayhem pack.
    turnitup321;4451435 said:
    But to cite the real point, many of the ScoreHero beasts (a.k.a. the people who purchase this kind of stuff) have no problem with it.
    Funny you should say that...

    "@startDaemons I got a -2 on this yesterday, couldn't help but question whether I was having an epileptic fit or not.
    PlastikDrink 2 months ago" In relation to Alaska strobes

    Is PlastikDrink not a scoreHero beast?
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    startDaemons;4461257 said:
    To clarify, I meant HMX didn't mean for the lighting to be used as a strobe, and yeah I'm sure you could find a HMX song with some kind of strobe effect but what's more telling is the complete lack of it in the mayhem pack.

    Two of the lighting effects provided are Strobe_slow and Strobe_fast. They definitely intended it. And it's actually really commonly used by Harmonix, mostly to highlight snare roll fills.
  • turnitup321turnitup321 Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    Plus, Beast and the Harlot has a lot of strobe in some parts.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited July 2011
    My understanding is that the speed the characters and effects run on is separate from the song, and some RBN artists aren't good at separating that rhythm from the rhythm of the actual song, which results in some entertaining videos.
    turnitup321;4451377 said:

    *Charting two-hand keyboard parts (Andromeda songs)
    Actualy, that's a violation of the charting rules.
  • turnitup321turnitup321 Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    Bront20;4461878 said:
    My understanding is that the speed the characters and effects run on is separate from the song, and some RBN artists aren't good at separating that rhythm from the rhythm of the actual song, which results in some entertaining videos.
    Actualy, that's a violation of the charting rules.
    I think someone from RA once said that they charted two-hand keyboards for the Andromeda stuff, but those songs are a special case.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited July 2011
    Bront20;4461878 said:
    My understanding is that the speed the characters and effects run on is separate from the song, and some RBN artists aren't good at separating that rhythm from the rhythm of the actual song, which results in some entertaining videos.

    Sort of. Every song has a BEAT track, which indicates the downbeats and upbeats. It's hard to screw that up, since it's in 4/4 by default and it scales with the tempo map.

    There's three "speeds" for animation, which basically decide how many BEAT markers long an animation should be. Slow goes for anything 100BPM and below, Medium is 100BPM to 160BPM, and Fast is 160BPM and up. Songs right on those tempos, though... no matter which option you pick, the game's prone to picking animations that don't quite work.
  • badhack0x13badhack0x13 Opening Act
    edited July 2011
    It's not simply an RBN problem - strobes in RB3 are brutal in general. The art/lighting upgrade the game got caused the contrast in the strobes to be far, far more intense than it used to be. Old HMX and RBN songs with tolerable strobe in RB2 can hurt my eyes in RB3. :(

    Also, not only can the strobe lights be painful - I also find long stretches of frenzy and BRE lighting just as rough on the eyes.

    When I design venues I often use 'alternative' strobe effects to recreate the flashing light effect without hurting the player. Strobe, BRE, and frenzy are limited to short bursts. Also, whenever I use those lights, I'll try to make sure the filter (video style) is one with smaller contrast ranges, so it's less of a harsh 'TV on, TV off' effect.

    Finally, if I make a venue with potentially painful lighting, I'll always try to watch it in a very dark room on my large TV to make sure it doesn't turn the room into a brutal seizure inducing light show. After all, I'd like to be able to play these songs too! ;)

    I understand many people don't see the problem (literally), but for those of us who can't take it - I totally feel your pain. One thing you can try is fiddling with your TV settings to create a smaller light/colour range for the venue to play with. A dull, nearly black and white TV will be less painful than a super-saturated ultra-bright screen.

    Try to stay away from the music video venues when playing a painful song - the strobes seem to be the worst there. If you can, aim for one of the smallest, dinkiest club settings when playing killer venues. The light shows there are more likely to be less intense.

    And you can always try experimenting with adding/removing light sources in your room. I find playing during bright daylight or with all the lights on helps to mitigate the intense flashing as well.
  • startDaemonsstartDaemons Unsigned
    edited August 2011
    Nice to know some animators are taking it into consideration. I don't think HMX gave it much thought when they were making the venues, the vertical line effect on the music video venue.. actually that venue in general is a shocker. And remember when the highway was opaque?

    It's probably just laziness on everyone's part, people must realise it's not ideal but are reluctant to redo something they already spent hours making, whether it's lighting for a particular chart or the modeling of the venues.

    Anyway it would be nice if authors/HMX kept it in the back of their minds.
  • DarkEternal37DarkEternal37 Road Warrior
    edited August 2011
    I agree on all points with the strobes. It's so bad at times that I would gladly just turn the entire background off and only have the notes on screen.

    This also goes for the music video venues. Every time one of those comes up silently cringe.
  • ben2294ben2294 Opening Act
    edited August 2011
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