Why don't YOU buy tracks from the Rock Band Network?

Comments

  • funkalunkfunkalunk Unsigned
    edited September 2011
    Pankrazzo;4495348 said:
    Everyone can scream, everyone can growl and every hillbilly can fudge together some midi crap on simple music programming tools without any real instruments, and I won't support talentless no-name stuff like that.

    The terrible implication here is that it takes no talent to write music, only to play it. That is just ridiculous.

    How people can be so ignorant as to write off entire genres as "talentless" for no reason other than not liking them. Take Metalcore and other genres with harsh vocals, how do the band members not have talent? They often play complex passages at fast speeds. I'm not saying the music is good, but they have technical talent.

    Or take any Chiptune band. Are you saying that if they took whatever song they made, and transposed it to play on instruments the song suddenly took talent to create? Writing is an important skill that you sadly overlook, and it just makes you look silly.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited September 2011
    Not everyone can scream. Some people can't even learn how.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited September 2011
    Yeah you can seriously rip your vocal chords to shreds if you don't know how to do it right.
  • HeadcoldCamperHeadcoldCamper Unsigned
    edited September 2011
    Speaking for myself I love the RBN stuff, I check everyday to see if new Devin Townsend songs have got added. One dissapointing aspect of RBN is the "one hit wonders" for instance only one Soilwork song. I agree sifting through some of the garbage gets tiring but often I am rewarded with hidden gems like Cynic. I just hope for more then just one song by artists that show up.
  • ricecakericecake Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    BachiG;4495241 said:
    Unfortunately, no matter whose "fault" it is that the majority of the music on RBN is of the metulz screamz catagory, the fact that it's primarily THE genre available is probably the biggest factor why there is not greater numbers of sales. As a PS3 owner (after the whole preview problem was worked out) I've bought quite a few non-metalz tracks, but there aren't a whole lot to chose from. Then the whole pro-drums cymbals/toms screw up didn't help matters much....so my initial interest from the promising idea at the beginning definetly waned.
    While I agree with the whole pro drums thing on the early songs, I did actually end up buying some of them, and just rated them differently in my library so I know when not to pick pro drums for that song.

    As far as genres on PS3 go, Metal is around 1/3 of what's available and is the largest single genre represented, but that still leaves 2/3 of the songs that are other genres.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0Apm-lkjZhgQ7dGtWNHkyTWNIY1pCOXNZUmphbzh0VUE&hl=en_US&gid=70
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited September 2011
    What's this about pro drums screwup? I don't drum, at all, ever, so it doesn't affect me, but I thought all songs had pro drums.
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited September 2011
    SheSaidSheSaid;4495478 said:
    What's this about pro drums screwup? I don't drum, at all, ever, so it doesn't affect me, but I thought all songs had pro drums.

    Up to a certain point, RBN1 songs had messed up Pro Drums charts, where all yellow, blue, and green pads were cymbals, regardless whether they were supposed to be toms or not. Then HMX, shortly after RB3's release, allowed authors to make Pro Charts accurately.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    SheSaidSheSaid;4495478 said:
    What's this about pro drums screwup? I don't drum, at all, ever, so it doesn't affect me, but I thought all songs had pro drums.
    There are quite of bit of early RBN songs without pro drums, because the authors weren't told how to chart it. I believe they were told how June or July of 2010?
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited September 2011
    DragoonXD;4495484 said:
    There are quite of bit of early RBN songs without pro drums, because the authors weren't told how to chart it. I believe they were told how June or July of 2010?
    Something like that. Even then, it wasn't required until RBN2.0(this February?), so there were some studios that just refused to even after being told.
  • DragoonXDDragoonXD Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    Or missed the memo because it was posted in a forum thread that not everyone reads.
  • GameMaster439GameMaster439 Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    I do but only having 159 choices really hinders my options of what I want
  • BachiGBachiG Inconceivable...
    edited September 2011
    ricecake;4495441 said:
    While I agree with the whole pro drums thing on the early songs, I did actually end up buying some of them, and just rated them differently in my library so I know when not to pick pro drums for that song.

    As far as genres on PS3 go, Metal is around 1/3 of what's available and is the largest single genre represented, but that still leaves 2/3 of the songs that are other genres.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0Apm-lkjZhgQ7dGtWNHkyTWNIY1pCOXNZUmphbzh0VUE&hl=en_US&gid=70

    Neat breakdown and pivot table...thanks for creating/sharing/showing.

    It'd be neat to be able to sort your table by different combinations. For instance of the 2/3 remaining genre songs, I'd also like to remove the prog, find only those with pro-drums and sort by difficulty, because I don't often by devil head/impossible/nightmare songs on pro-drums and I'm guessing I have a little less than half of what's left... It'd be good to see what I should go back and check out now that previews are available. :)
  • DackAttacDackAttac Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4495351 said:
    Pankrazzo, we're not asking people to just buy songs they don't like just for the sake of supporting RBN or authoring groups.

    We're trying to find ways to reach out to the people that say the never buy or bother with RBN. Find the reasoning behind that, and find out what we can do to help as there are a lot of really great tracks in RBN (and yes there are some questionable ones as well).

    [...]

    So again we're not suggesting or begging people to start buying every track released just for the sake of RBN, or authoring groups. We're trying to find ways to help expand the consumer base, and try and educate the masses that there are some real quality tracks in the RBN offerings.

    Hm. I probably should reframe my answer then, since my motivation to use the RBN to discover music instead of buy the songs I already knew was kind of born out of The Golden Rule... I look hard to discover music partially because I have really good results, but also because when I get my music recorded and out there, I wish someone would work that hard to discover me, to give me a chance if my song comes up on the iTunes recommendations, if I'm opening for a band they like, etc, etc.

    So before this, back when I just used RBN for the stuff I already wanted? There were some moments when it was better than the official DLC. While with my nerd friends, we got to play the Jonathan Coulton songs that we knew by heart and made in-jokes based off the lyrics that the average joe who didn't know those songs wouldn't get. In our Rock Band library. It was like a specialization of our taste. It's one thing to all play Rock Band to "More Than a Feeling", but quite another to sing "Shop Vac". It's not like the latter's a better song or anything, but it feels more special because the song's more obscure and usually wouldn't get the all-start treatment that mainstream songs tend to share like this.

    But the problem that has been mentioned of the odds of playing it online extend to local, as well. As awesome as it was to play Sequestered in Memphis with friends who I saw the Hold Steady in concert with, they weren't quite as willing to play Half Crazy since they'd never heard of Jukebox the Ghost. As much I love that song, most of my memories of it are playing alone or watching some friend who I'm forcing to play it lose interest. But by the same token, I have friends that are going to crap their jaws out their asses when those Powerman 5000 songs you're working on make it into the Store.

    And I don't know if I could even give you advice on bettering that. Maybe instead of recommending the bands I like myself but none of my friends are into, I'd recommend you contact some bands that have been the subject of group listening/concertgoing (Frank Turner, XTra Mile/Epitaph; The Zolas, Lotus Child; Tally Hall, Quack! Media; Sonic Boom Six, Rebel Alliance; Ike Reilly, Rock Ridge). But one man's group-listening band is another man's headphones-only experience. Depends on the company you keep.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited September 2011
    Dack without giving anything away on things we have in the works, your friends will be really happy with what we're currently working on ;)
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4495682 said:
    Dack without giving anything away on things we have in the works, your friends will be really happy with what we're currently working on ;)

    I would describe some of it as epic.
  • DackAttacDackAttac Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    ThatAuthoringGroup;4495682 said:
    Dack without giving anything away on things we have in the works, your friends will be really happy with what we're currently working on ;)

    Well, in order to express happiness, they'd need to either smile or speak, both requiring the use of their jaw, which as was established, will probably likely be ejected rectally at the prospect of the Po—

    Wait, are you referring to the PM5K songs? 'Cause I know you're working on those. I left an off-color comment of praise on your YouTube video for SMWYG. Or is another group I mentioned in the works...?
  • hiddenzombie013hiddenzombie013 Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    Me buying or not buying tracks has noting to do with them being on RBN or not. Since I don't play RB nearly as much I used to, I do have to limit my selections, so previous packs that would have been day 1 buys such as the Cheap Trick and Fall Out Boy packs are on the backburner now. But like I said, good songs are good songs. The last great song I bought was No One's Gonna Love You by Band of Horses, and I plan on buying the other three soon too. Other RBN songs such as the upcoming ADTR and BTBAM songs, along with recent releases like Asking Alexandria, are songs I want regardless of being on RBN or not.

    The advantage RBN does have actually though is that since songs aren't available in packs, I'll be more likely to buy them sooner. For example, if there were a four-pack of those BoH songs, I probably wouldn't have any of them right now, because I wouldn't allow myself to buy just one if there was a chance I'd want all of them down the road.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited September 2011
    DackAttac;4495692 said:
    Well, in order to express happiness, they'd need to either smile or speak, both requiring the use of their jaw, which as was established, will probably likely be ejected rectally at the prospect of the Po—

    Wait, are you referring to the PM5K songs? 'Cause I know you're working on those. I left an off-color comment of praise on your YouTube video for SMWYG. Or is another group I mentioned in the works...?

    Not PM5K. I'm talking about bands your friends would like that you mentioned at the end of your first post.
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    DackAttac;4495692 said:

    Wait, are you referring to the PM5K songs? 'Cause I know you're working on those. I left an off-color comment of praise on your YouTube video for SMWYG. Or is another group I mentioned in the works...?

    Noble likes to tease the stuff we haven't reveal. It's good.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited September 2011
    hiddenzombie013;4495693 said:
    The advantage RBN does have actually though is that since songs aren't available in packs, I'll be more likely to buy them sooner. For example, if there were a four-pack of those BoH songs, I probably wouldn't have any of them right now, because I wouldn't allow myself to buy just one if there was a chance I'd want all of them down the road.

    Interesting. I've never seen RBN's lack of packs framed as a good thing before.
  • ThatAuthoringGroupThatAuthoringGroup Numero Uno Super **** Fanboy #1
    edited September 2011
    Oh I'm the same way. For instance the Stevie nicks pack a few months back. There were three songs in there I wanted, but didn't have enough scratch for the full pack. So I had to wait a while before I picked it up.

    My reasoning is, if there's a pack I might as well buy the whole thing since later on down the road I might start to like other songs from the pack. Picking them up individually would cost me more than just buying the pack.

    Yes I'm weird ;)
  • queuemarkqueuemark Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    I do buy RBN tracks...probably 1/3 of my purchases are from it. However, seeing as how I'm a drummer, there are a good few pre RBN 2.0 tracks that I won't ever buy, just due to the drum issues.

    And really, people. It isn't THAT much metal. My genres of choice are alternative, indie, and punk, and I've found probably close to 100 songs (about 1/10th of my entire library) that fit the bill. There's some amazing progressive stuff (and I don't even particularly care for prog) and some of the best pro keys songs in the platform.
  • ricecakericecake Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    BachiG;4495574 said:
    Neat breakdown and pivot table...thanks for creating/sharing/showing.

    It'd be neat to be able to sort your table by different combinations. For instance of the 2/3 remaining genre songs, I'd also like to remove the prog, find only those with pro-drums and sort by difficulty, because I don't often by devil head/impossible/nightmare songs on pro-drums and I'm guessing I have a little less than half of what's left... It'd be good to see what I should go back and check out now that previews are available. :)
    Thanks! I'm working with what Google Docs offers. If you (or anybody) knows how to do that, please let me know!
  • pksagepksage Unsigned
    edited September 2011
    As someone who's been part of the RBN community since the start, I really want user review aggregates back. Despite being an author and keeping a fairly close eye on the weekly releases, I've bought maybe 2 tracks per month by artists I didn't already like (i.e. I knew I would buy every Jukebox the Ghost song well before Half Crazy came out). I just don't have the time or inclination to look at YouTube videos for every non-metal song that comes out.

    A significant portion of my RBN library is RBN1 songs that I found at the top of RB2's "Sort by Review". It seems like Harmonix is avoiding user-specified filtering in the local songlist, though (no filter by review), so maybe they're trying to avoid litigation? Or at least hurting bands' feelings? I can't imagine it'd go over well if a band advertised themselves heavily only for them to have a 2-lighter aggregate in the store. Still, it's something that would help me buy a hell of a lot more RBN tracks.
  • FairwoodStudiosFairwoodStudios Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    pksage;4496016 said:
    As someone who's been part of the RBN community since the start, I really want user review aggregates back. Despite being an author and keeping a fairly close eye on the weekly releases, I've bought maybe 2 tracks per month by artists I didn't already like (i.e. I knew I would buy every Jukebox the Ghost song well before Half Crazy came out). I just don't have the time or inclination to look at YouTube videos for every non-metal song that comes out.

    A significant portion of my RBN library is RBN1 songs that I found at the top of RB2's "Sort by Review". It seems like Harmonix is avoiding user-specified filtering in the local songlist, though (no filter by review), so maybe they're trying to avoid litigation? Or at least hurting bands' feelings? I can't imagine it'd go over well if a band advertised themselves heavily only for them to have a 2-lighter aggregate in the store. Still, it's something that would help me buy a hell of a lot more RBN tracks.

    Should be doable third-party. We can get leaderboard data for those songs, which I assume includes gamertags (true, false?). So if you have a site where you have to register, and you have to register your gamertag to review, you can limit people to only reviewing what they've played. A standard 1-5 ranking system is easy to implement on any data set, the only complexity is additional features and anti-griefing stuff like what I mentioned above.

    (As for the core question, really any response that doesn't mention people's tendencies to avoid the unknown is an incomplete response. But unless you were only going to work with major indie artists you had to know that would be the case coming in.)
  • pksagepksage Unsigned
    edited September 2011
    FairwoodStudios;4496027 said:
    Should be doable third-party.
    That already exists, but they suffer from a common reviewing pitfall: only users that sign up for those sites and feel like submitting reviews will be contributing. RB3's in-game reviews are so easy and represent such a wide install base. I can respect Harmonix's desire to keep most of their metrics private, but what's the harm in showing aggregate reviews for just RBN songs? :(
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    Metal and chiptunes most likely won't be bought by me. I enjoy country, jazz, classic, rock and pop. Most of the songs I buy on RBN I've never heard of before. This the complete opposite of RB DLC where I am most likely to avoid songs I've never heard of. I think there is way too much metal on RBN. Also, I just think the quality of the music on RBN is not as good as RB DLC. It's a lot of work to find good music on RBN, but it does exist, my library of RBN music is expanding. I would buy more jazz selections if they were available.

    I laugh when people say RB needs a music editor when I think of RBN and the quality of it's music. I can only imagine the nightmare of looking for good songs in the library of music from a RB music editor.

    Finally, if you want me to buy your songs, include keys. I rarely play standard guitar. I only play drums occasionally. I'm most likely to play songs that have keys.
  • CJHobbesCJHobbes Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    I know I'm pretty late responding to this, but I'd just like to mention that organizing the new RBN releases by genre has made a huge difference in how willing I am to look up songs. I, like others, am not a big fan of the scream-ish metal songs. So being able to skip previewing those entirely on a weekly basis has been a blessing.

    My personal experience won't be much help, though. I do the work to look up the bands and the music; I just only purchase stuff I enjoy.

    For the broader fan base, I think making easy one-click access to the songs (the songs or the charts) in the official announcement would go a long way as well. The biggest barrier I believe you have to break through is people unwilling to care about unknown music; making previews easy to access for the laziest people would help out tremendously.

    Another thing: I think writing the weekly "New in RBN" official announcement in a similar fashion to afterstasis' "presents an album a day" thread would help out. What I mean by this is if each song or band (still grouped by genres) had a "recommended if you like these groups: " description attached to it.

    An example
    Example said:
    Meic Stevens - Outlander
    Genre: Psychedelic/Contemporary Folk
    Year: 1970

    Excellent Welsh folk that keeps the acid subtle enough for less adventurous listeners who consider Donovan "really crazy stuff".

    Recommended If You Like: Syd Barrett, Bob Dylan, Donovan, Van Morrison, Bert Jansch, and Mark Fry.

    Sample the album on myspace.
    "Bob Dylan" and "Van Morrison" might catch a reader's eye, prompting them to give that band/song a shot. I realize this would be a ton of work, but I think it would help somewhat.

    In short, creating the easiest access to songs/charts and creating a "recommended because you like: " tag would be my suggestions.
  • FlyGuyLXIFlyGuyLXI Headl!ner
    edited September 2011
    lvmathemagician;4496056 said:
    Finally, if you want me to buy your songs, include keys.

    I'm with you on this one.

    I'm disappointed on how alienated the keyboards are being treated in RBN. It's not common finding a song with keys support, and amongst those songs are further filtered down depending on:

    1. Key charts with huge gaps/only 30 second parts. I can't tell you how painfully common that is.

    2. Chiptune music. Sorry, "Airbrushed" was the only exception and I don't even have the patience to play that song anymore.

    3. Songs with two key/synth layers, and where it seems like the guitar plays most of the lead/vital keys/synths while the actual keyboard plays the background keys/synths. Do you know how much I hate that?
  • folkeyefolkeye Headliner
    edited September 2011
    My reasons are pretty simple. Been pretty turned off on what I find interesting vs. what I don't. So unless I hear people raving about a song, know the song or artist, or see it requested a lot I don't bother checking it out anymore. That and the fact I'm simply more interested in the big name artists for my library.
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