For PS3 Players (double bass charting)

dansolodansolo Rising Star
edited October 2011 in The Rock Band Network
Just a quick poll here on whether or not you prefer the continual charting of double bass songs on drums to be done playable with one pedal or with both pedals that you may or may not own. This is for the Rock Band Network which at this point releases songs that have already been charting for double bass on XBOX 360 as single bass charts for PS3.

Comments

  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    Jasonofindy;4505020 said:
    If we had unlimited RBN song options I would be all for it. Since we are limited to 5 songs a week, I believe that they all should be the single bass charts so that the maximum number of people can purchase/play them.

    This. We're already suffering enough under the 5-a-week bottleneck, the last thing we need is to have even fewer actual songs getting through the pipeline.

    The poll options are ridiculous, though. "No, double bass bad" is not accurate. I'm sure not many people think there's anything bad about double bass. But in a system where only 5 tracks a week get through to PS3, "No, double bass should not be a priority over larger actually unique song library" is my answer if such a poll option existed.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    thatmarkguy;4505099 said:
    This. We're already suffering enough under the 5-a-week bottleneck, the last thing we need is to have even fewer actual songs getting through the pipeline.

    This wouldn't effect song output at all, just asking for the double bass INSTEAD of single bass versions for songs that are not yet released.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Jasonofindy;4505020 said:
    Since we are limited to 5 songs a week, I believe that they all should be the single bass charts so that the maximum number of people can purchase/play them.

    Expert mode is for all of the actual notes in the song, ideally. I remember this from a quote from Teasdale back in Rock Band's infancy. There is no shame in playing a song on hard if you don't have a second pedal.
  • SaccianSaccian Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505110 said:
    This wouldn't effect song output at all, just asking for the double bass INSTEAD of single bass versions for songs that are not yet released.

    Having only the double bass option would reduce the sales of the song. Those drummers who don't have two pedals would likely not purchase it because it might be unplayable.

    As already mentioned, if we didn't have the 5 song limitation I would be all for it but unless things change I think status quo is probably the best option. If HMX(or was it Microsofts rule) was willing to give us our normal 5 and then include any 2x Bass songs that would be nice.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    I think that such a small minority would be served by 2X bass that it wouldn't be worth it.
  • Gamer1270Gamer1270 Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    I've been saying this every since we had our first A7X song. If guitar hero can do it Rock Band can do it way better. They should have the double bass in Pro Drums. That's what I thought they were going to do when RB3 came out.
  • calabrelcalabrel Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    Oh man, not this again.

    Okay...

    1. If you only have the double-bass version of a track, you alienate users based on playability. Whereas on the other hand if you only have the single-bass version of the track, you alienate users based on preference.

    2. The choice between a single-bass and a double-bass song is fine, as long as it doesn't prevent a different song from being released.

    3. Under the PS3 users current situation you cannot have the option for both a single-bass and double-bass track without preventing another song from being released.

    So unless you're okay with either alienating users based on their ability to literally play the track, or you're okay with having even less songs ported from xbox360 RBN you cannot agree to have this.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Saccian;4505188 said:
    Having only the double bass option would reduce the sales of the song. Those drummers who don't have two pedals would likely not purchase it because it might be unplayable.

    Unplayable how? On Expert? We are basically playing those kinds of songs now not on expert but on hard, this would allow those with the capability to really play on Expert.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    lvmathemagician;4505236 said:
    I think that such a small minority would be served by 2X bass that it wouldn't be worth it.

    This would require exactly no extra work.
  • whypick1whypick1 Headliner
    edited September 2011
  • PhisioniPhisioni Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    Make a setlist with your friends on their console. Everyone chooses songs. You get into the difficulty select, and hit expert on drums like a boss. Turns out that one of the songs is double bass. Fail. Realize that you have to play on hard (and have incomplete parts on most of the songs), learn to double bass for a single song, or not play that song in your awesome, epic setlist. That seems kinda uncool as choices go.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    calabrel;4505264 said:
    So unless you're okay with either alienating users based on their ability to literally play the track

    Okay, I understand. If your not playing on expert than you are not playing, and no one should be allowed to play all of the notes.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Phisioni;4505289 said:
    Make a setlist with your friends on their console. Everyone chooses songs. You get into the difficulty select, and hit expert on drums like a boss. Turns out that one of the songs is double bass. Fail. Realize that you have to play on hard (and have incomplete parts on most of the songs), learn to double bass for a single song, or not play that song in your awesome, epic setlist. That seems kinda uncool as choices go.

    If you are not prepared for the double bass then you can drop down to hard instantly. Cool new thing called the overshell.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    whypick1;4505288 said:
    FYI, Lachesis made a poll about this a few months back.

    I'm aware, I was hoping to get input from more than 50 people, though.
  • PhisioniPhisioni Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    I just realized, everything I want to say in here or that you're going to say as a counterargument has been said many times before. Let's stop wasting our time here when there are better things to do, like playing Rock Band, flying a kite, or reading one of the old threads about double bass charting. Yeah, that sounds good.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Phisioni;4505303 said:
    I just realized, everything I want to say in here or that you're going to say as a counterargument has been said many times before. Let's stop wasting our time here when there are better things to do, like playing Rock Band, flying a kite, or reading one of the old threads about double bass charting. Yeah, that sounds good.

    I think more than a few people have quit playing Rock Band out of disgust with the double bass situation especially considering some other games and I don't want that to happen anymore.
  • edited September 2011
    They should release 2X Bass RBN songs on PS3 and those songs charted that way should be the ONLY version sent to PS3. Not two versions for sure.

    As with all things DLC related, its optional so people can choose to buy em or not.

    It is time.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505283 said:
    This would require exactly no extra work.

    It's not a matter of extra work. If I have to choose between porting over a 2x bass song that may sell 50 copies and a new song that may sell more, I'm going to port over the new song.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505310 said:
    I think more than a few people have quit playing Rock Band out of disgust with the double bass situation especially considering some other games and I don't want that to happen anymore.

    Why do you think this? Do you have any evidence to support your position?
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    lvmathemagician;4505357 said:
    Why do you think this? Do you have any evidence to support your position?

    These very forums. As someone pointed out this is not an isolated request. I wouldn't mind so much if just the dominant foot playing was charted but is usually inconsistent the way they deal with double bass. This isn't something I used to care too much about but especially with Megalodon it's starting to send me over the edge.
    I know a lot of people think double bass is stupid and is just running in place but guys like Brann Dailor and Joey Jordison are ****ing awesome drummers amongst many others with songs in the game and it is too bad we can't rock out like them. I've had my only set of double pedals hooked up to my kickpad on the ions for years in anticipation and if I move them to my real set I'm afraid I'll be done.
  • SaccianSaccian Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505281 said:
    Unplayable how? On Expert? We are basically playing those kinds of songs now not on expert but on hard, this would allow those with the capability to really play on Expert.

    As far as I am aware, any set of bass beats above a certain speed had to be charted out for a single kick pedal. So those charts that require 2x bass pedals are probably too quick for the average person to hit with just one pedal. This is how it would potentially become unplayable in that a player couldn't get the notes without having an 'upgraded' drum set even if they tried.

    I haven't had a chance to look at the all the 2x bass charts out there but from what I saw, the double kick portions are all for 16th(or maybe 32nd) notes with a quick tempo and are meant to be played with two pedals. I do have the equipment to get a double kick setup so I wouldn't mind trying to 2x charts however unless the way the songs are released to the PS3 is changed, I'de rather they go with the version more people are likely to get. This increases my chances of playing it with someone online.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Saccian;4505411 said:
    As far as I am aware, any set of bass beats above a certain speed had to be charted out for a single kick pedal. So those charts that require 2x bass pedals are probably too quick for the average person to hit with just one pedal. This is how it would potentially become unplayable in that a player couldn't get the notes without having an 'upgraded' drum set even if they tried.

    I haven't had a chance to look at the all the 2x bass charts out there but from what I saw, the double kick portions are all for 16th(or maybe 32nd) notes with a quick tempo and are meant to be played with two pedals. I do have the equipment to get a double kick setup so I wouldn't mind trying to 2x charts however unless the way the songs are released to the PS3 is changed, I'de rather they go with the version more people are likely to get. This increases my chances of playing it with someone online.

    If you wanted to play the song without two pedals you could do so but you would have to drop down to hard difficulty or put the game on No Fail mode if you play on expert and prepare for pain. This is not about duplicate versions, although I would buy them all if offered, but about songs going forward.
  • SaccianSaccian Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    If Harmonix decides to change their standard then there would be no need for a separate 2x bass version. I was surprised it didn't happen for RB3 to be honest, maybe they just didn't want it to look like they were copying Guitar Hero's Expert+ mode. Because of this, it is not a simple matter of one song being the true expert version and the other more of a Hard or Harder level difficulty which is how I think you are considering it. It is more similar to a regular chart vs pro-upgrade, the song is the same, chart is different, scoring will be different, and you need an upgrade to be able to properly play it. If this standard disappears then having the 2x bass chart would be more appropriate. Maybe in RB4 we'll see Expert+.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Saccian;4505440 said:
    If Harmonix decides to change their standard then there would be no need for a separate 2x bass version. I was surprised it didn't happen for RB3 to be honest, maybe they just didn't want it to look like they were copying Guitar Hero's Expert+ mode. Because of this, it is not a simple matter of one song being the true expert version and the other more of a Hard or Harder level difficulty which is how I think you are considering it. It is more similar to a regular chart vs pro-upgrade, the song is the same, chart is different, scoring will be different, and you need an upgrade to be able to properly play it.

    Yeah, there would just be one version and it would be fully charted on expert unlike the way things are now. People probably shouldn't try to play them on EXPERT if they didn't possess and familiarize themselves with double pedals. To simplify, basically just port over the 2x version from X-Box instead of the single version.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    Saccian;4505440 said:
    If Harmonix decides to change their standard then there would be no need for a separate 2x bass version. I was surprised it didn't happen for RB3 to be honest, maybe they just didn't want it to look like they were copying Guitar Hero's Expert+ mode. Because of this, it is not a simple matter of one song being the true expert version and the other more of a Hard or Harder level difficulty which is how I think you are considering it. It is more similar to a regular chart vs pro-upgrade, the song is the same, chart is different, scoring will be different, and you need an upgrade to be able to properly play it. If this standard disappears then having the 2x bass chart would be more appropriate. Maybe in RB4 we'll see Expert+.

    That's a separate issue but I also very much agree with you. What upsets me more is that there are double bass songs out there already charted that ps3 users don't have access to.
  • blckshpblckshp Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505281 said:
    Unplayable how? On Expert? We are basically playing those kinds of songs now not on expert but on hard, this would allow those with the capability to really play on Expert.
    And prevent the other users from obtaining gold stars just because they don't have a second pedal.......selfish.
  • calabrelcalabrel Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    Yeah, blckshp ninja'd me.

    But, if they were to add another difficulty above Expert, their version of Expert +, then absolutely, bring it on. I do have two pedals on my ions and would love to have a go at 2x bass, but not at the expense of fewer songs or a downgrade of the current charting system (in terms of scoring).
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    blckshp;4505456 said:
    And prevent the other users from obtaining gold stars just because they don't have a second pedal.......selfish.

    So it is better to be rewarded with a gold star for playing half of the bass notes. Where is your sense of challenge? Let's earn those gold stars. A am fairly certain a lot of people who enjoy listening to more aggressive music have been waiting with pedals ready for awhile. It would also give a reason to the hardcore to pick up an extra pedal if you want those stars.
  • dansolodansolo Rising Star
    edited September 2011
    calabrel;4505458 said:
    Yeah, blckshp ninja'd me.

    But, if they were to add another difficulty above Expert, their version of Expert +, then absolutely, bring it on. I do have two pedals on my ions and would love to have a go at 2x bass, but not at the expense of fewer songs or a downgrade of the current charting system (in terms of scoring).

    Again, separate issue but I think instead of expert+ they should just change expert to the full song and figure out the changes however they want on down through the difficulties. I would have done this with Rock Band 2. This is more about Rock Band Network though and I think a lot of people would appreciate the double charts but I have been wrong before.
  • blckshpblckshp Opening Act
    edited September 2011
    dansolo;4505459 said:
    So it is better to be rewarded with a gold star for playing half of the bass notes. Where is your sense of challenge? Let's earn those gold stars. A am fairly certain a lot of people who enjoy listening to more aggressive music have been waiting with pedals ready for awhile. It would also give a reason to the hardcore to pick up an extra pedal if you want those stars.
    Since Harmonix doesn't chart 2x pedal for the "official" DLC, then requiring someone to have 2X pedal to get RBN gold stars doesn't fit within the "official" mentality of the game, now does it. It has nothing to do with challenge. It has everything to do with keeping everything on an even keel.

    And I can't figure out where in the hell everyone keeps coming up with this crap that Harmonix has to chart every friggin note. With the limitations of the electronics of the faux instruments, be glad that you can even hit half of them.

    As far as incentive to pick up a pedal if you want those stars, Why don't you buy everyone a pedal so you can get your way, as opposed to forcing your opinion on people who are quite happy with the way things are and the extra pedal is frivolous?
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