my only problems with the RBN...

wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
edited October 2011 in The Rock Band Network
I love the RBN for artists HMX refuses or just doesn't care to add. it opened the door for a lot of my fave bands to release songs (Clutch, Seether, Nonpoint, ect.)

And aside from all the awesome, there's a few issues I've decided bother me.


1. Contacting bands that no longer exist.
There's a lot of great bands out there who just simply aren't possible to contact for the average joe.
I love bands that HMX will most likely never add like Stereomud, 8 Days Gone, Apartment 26, Bloodsimple, Spineshank, ect.

How do you contact bands that either don't have contact info or only have an old outdated myspace pages that no longer get updates?

2. non-USA bands.
GH seemed to have no issue with foreign bands, why is it that HMX doesn't add almost ever? they either aren't able to access the RBN tools or the fees make it not worth it.
Will we ever see bands like In Flames, Backyard Babies, Rock n Roll Soldiers. ect.?

3. the lack of HMX support...
Well, this one is more of a gripe... with the RBN in existence, HMX is less willing to stick their neck out and add indie music or even a lot of other mainstream music they just don't like... which leads to a lot of iffy music being pumped into the game... officially by HMX... purely for revenue... like Lady Gaga... and Snoop Dog... (and coldplay *gags*)



well, there you have my top 3 issues...

feel free to now attack me with fanatical fanboy support of how perfect RB is...

Comments

  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    Der_Lex;4524165 said:
    This comment is hilarious coming from someone who was wildly enthusiastic about the Limp Bizkit DLC. Comments about glass houses and stones come to mind.
    I happen to like a LOT of different types of music, most LB is terrible. like Gold Cobra for instance... horrible song... not liking songs isn't the same as not liking bands and vice versa. I was enthusiastic about it because of the fact that "build a bridge" came out on RB years ago and was another terrible song... disappointed in that one... lots of people hate lots of music, I hate very little music. my wife makes fun of me for liking as she puts it "everything"...


    Glad I could humor you though.
    Der_Lex;4524165 said:
    As for point 1 of your original post, though, you could always suggest a band to one of the authoring companies, they have experience in matters such as those. You can also try and find out which label the band was signed under and contact that yourself, since the label'll most likely have the rights to the songs.

    what about bands like Smile Empty Soul, 8 Days Gone, and the other's who self published? that still leaves a chunk of difficulties :(
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524273 said:

    what about bands like Smile Empty Soul, 8 Days Gone, and the other's who self published? that still leaves a chunk of difficulties :(

    Not really. If they have an official site, they'll most likely have a "Contacts" page. There you can find their email and see if they want to get on board.

    IMO it's easier than going after a signed act.
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    LiveHomeVideo;4524309 said:
    Not really. If they have an official site, they'll most likely have a "Contacts" page. There you can find their email and see if they want to get on board.

    IMO it's easier than going after a signed act.

    That's my point though, if they no longer have an updated contact page, there's virtually no way of getting a hold of them :(
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524339 said:
    That's my point though, if they no longer have an updated contact page, there's virtually no way of getting a hold of them :(

    I recently got in contact with a certain band that were around in the 60's. Even if they don't update their site, that doesn't mean that they won't answer an email, especially if they're not being flooded at the moment.
  • ZemanatorZemanator Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524339 said:
    That's my point though, if they no longer have an updated contact page, there's virtually no way of getting a hold of them :(

    the other problem, is that for any music that wasn't produced in the last, lets say 5 years... it is either almost impossible for a band to get an authoring company the separated stems they need, or it costs them WAY to much money to have it done by a professional, and the RBN may be a profit for some labels, the royalty payments a band or label will get from the RBN will probably not be worth the trouble, in their minds
  • edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524339 said:
    That's my point though, if they no longer have an updated contact page, there's virtually no way of getting a hold of them :(

    Try looking for one of the members else where. Twitter would be an easy way of getting in touch with them.
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    LiveHomeVideo;4524346 said:
    I recently got in contact with a certain band that were around in the 60's. Even if they don't update their site, that doesn't mean that they won't answer an email, especially if they're not being flooded at the moment.



    okay, if they HAVE a site still, there is a chance, but some band's sites have been long removed... and even a google search finds nothing on them... but I'll concede the point as right now I cannot remember any specific examples.
    Zemanator;4524351 said:
    the other problem, is that for any music that wasn't produced in the last, lets say 5 years... it is either almost impossible for a band to get an authoring company the separated stems they need, or it costs them WAY to much money to have it done by a professional, and the RBN may be a profit for some labels, the royalty payments a band or label will get from the RBN will probably not be worth the trouble, in their minds


    errr... what?

    MagicMurderBag7;4524352 said:
    Try looking for one of the members else where. Twitter would be an easy way of getting in touch with them.


    kinda like how 7 Days Away has former members of Stereomud? yea, that's good advice... but I will never use twitter or facebook, so that's not for me...
  • ZemanatorZemanator Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524354 said:

    errr... what?

    costs too much money for bands to split tracks into stems for authoring groups, or it's impossible due to the songs being old?
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    Zemanator;4524398 said:
    costs too much money for bands to split tracks into stems for authoring groups, or it's impossible due to the songs being old?

    I figured you meant that but I don't see how...


    but as for the suggestion, which authoring groups do people think I should talk to about hunting down bands to add?
  • Catch-22Catch-22 Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524435 said:
    I figured you meant that but I don't see how...

    It doesn't matter if you can't see how. It's the number 1 stumbling block when dealing with interested parties.
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    bummer... I guess that's why we end up with some "versions" rather than originals eh?
  • ZemanatorZemanator Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    thats why we end up with so much music from 2010 or 2011. Its easier and a LOT cheaper to split stems at the same time as recording or mixing an album. it's also much more accessible, and labels love to promote brand new material, instead of older stuff.

    as for contacting about bands? please look for what label they are on first. if it's sony/UMG/EMI/roadrunner/epitaph, don't bother.

    some labels have partnerships;
    victory - RA
    rise records - RGS
    nuclear blast - ASP
    season of mist - TAG
    ect, if a band falls there, contact their respective partner'd authoring group

    otherwise, either send any group you want the contact info. you could also contact them yourself, and if they're interested, point them to an authoring group
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    And if you want to see a particular band show up in RBN, then it's more productive to actually do something about it yourself than post threads complaining that others aren't doing enough.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524118 said:
    1. Contacting bands that no longer exist.
    There's a lot of great bands out there who just simply aren't possible to contact for the average joe.
    I love bands that HMX will most likely never add like Stereomud, 8 Days Gone, Apartment 26, Bloodsimple, Spineshank, ect.

    Uh, Spineshank is totally still together. Matter of fact, they've been without a major label for the last eight years, so anything they've recorded since they left Roadrunner should be fair game.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited October 2011
    Zemanator;4524398 said:
    costs too much money for bands to split tracks into stems for authoring groups, or it's impossible due to the songs being old?

    Wouldn't preclude re-recording old songs, like Third Eye Blind did (to give an RBN example).
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    SheSaidSheSaid;4524562 said:
    Wouldn't preclude re-recording old songs, like Third Eye Blind did (to give an RBN example).

    But that's no good because then the song might sound different.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited October 2011
    The Third Eye Blind songs (and the Stroke 9 songs, too) sound very much like the originals. Yes, perhaps if you intensively listened to both back-to-back with the express aim of finding differences, you would, but...why would you do that? It's not at all a situation like "867-5309/Jenny" where the song was re-recorded almost 30 years later. Unless you are talking about songs from that long ago.
  • kingtonyxkingtonyx Unofficial
    edited October 2011
    Studio time to re-record the songs is not free.
  • AskariNariAskariNari Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    It would probably be easier for the label to get the stems transferred to digital than to have them rerecord the track. Besides, I'm sure that he was referring to situations where the label owns the masters and the rights and has them "laying around," so to speak, which would mean getting the label to get the artist to consent to rerecording it for the label if the artist is even alive or capable of performing still, that is.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524118 said:

    1. Contacting bands that no longer exist.
    There's a lot of great bands out there who just simply aren't possible to contact for the average joe.
    I love bands that HMX will most likely never add like Stereomud, 8 Days Gone, Apartment 26, Bloodsimple, Spineshank, ect.

    How do you contact bands that either don't have contact info or only have an old outdated myspace pages that no longer get updates?
    If folks have labels, they can be contacted. If the bands don't, well, there's not much HMX or RBN folks could do.
    wafflerevolution;4524118 said:
    2. non-USA bands.
    GH seemed to have no issue with foreign bands, why is it that HMX doesn't add almost ever? they either aren't able to access the RBN tools or the fees make it not worth it.
    Will we ever see bands like In Flames, Backyard Babies, Rock n Roll Soldiers. ect.?
    RBN is a US thing because that's where it's setup, so that hinders things a bit. Beyond that, the XNA environment isn't supported in some countries, so support around the world isn't 100% either for simply getting the songs. This is a barrier for a lot of foreign bands, but it's not insurmountable.
    wafflerevolution;4524118 said:
    3. the lack of HMX support...
    Well, this one is more of a gripe... with the RBN in existence, HMX is less willing to stick their neck out and add indie music or even a lot of other mainstream music they just don't like... which leads to a lot of iffy music being pumped into the game... officially by HMX... purely for revenue... like Lady Gaga... and Snoop Dog... (and coldplay *gags*)
    Why is it HMX's fault that your taste in music is horrible? ;)

    Putting popular music that people like to download into the game is hardly a cash grab. I'd call that "pleasing your customers". Sure, HMX was a bit eclectic at times with their official DLC, but even now, they spread the songs across genres, decades, and in some cases popularity.

    As for being less willing, HMX is trying to make money, and they're now not backed by a huge conglomerate. Beyond that, DLC sales are not what they were 2-3 years ago because the industry isn't in the same place. HMX needs to please it's customers, potentially attract new ones, all while paying the bills. Bands like Coldplay, Lady Gaga, Bon Jovi, Queen, Billy Joel, Ozzy, RHCP, and Linkin' Park help them do this. (and if that list isn't a wide variety of sound, I don't know what is)

    Sure, it's easy to say "Where's my Flying Pink Rhinos HMX?", and maybe HMX loves them to death, but that doesn't mean releasing their music will help them keep the lights on.
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    I'm sure the poor DLC sales have nothing to do with RB3 not implementing DLC in a way that makes it worth it to play them... lack of a sustainable tour mode for instance... and the only DLC that seems to matter is Dave Ghrol, Queen, and the freebies. the HMX bands one doesn't count since not all the HMX band's songs were usable for that challenge... a "quickplay only" game gets old fast... at least WoR gave players challenges per-song. so every single DLC had multiple reasons to play... and their story mode lasted several hours longer... the RB3 story mode can be mastered in less than 1.5 hours. that's not worth paying more than $5 for IMO. It's a literal Arcade game sold at retail price... should just be in the arcades and cost a quarter to play a song.



    Radio's generally only add 1 song a week, more than 10,000 songs come out a week. I like music more than the average radio listener. I don't listen to radios not TVs. they are corporate sponsored evil crap... propaganda and dogma is all they are good for. I live for the concert scenes, underground shows, internet searches and all sorts of music. I have about a terabyte of music currently in my itunes. I may have a "terrible taste in music" but at least I'm not closed minded like most people. People who still listen to the same 10 or 11 songs they did in high school and refuse to listen to anything else; those people fill my heart with sadness. I feel sorry for them...

    I personally like almost everything rock from the beginning to now. I like stuff like the beach boys and stuff like Static-X, I like stuff like The Eagles and stuff like Linkin Park, I like stuff like Metallica and stuff like Boston, I like stuff like 311 and stuff like Fear Factory, I like stuff like The Offspring and stuff like Fleetwood Mac... I like more styles, genres, types of music than most people, if that means I have a terrible taste in music, than I'm proud of it.
  • AskariNariAskariNari Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524750 said:
    I'm sure the poor DLC sales have nothing to do with RB3 not implementing DLC in a way that makes it worth it to play them... lack of a sustainable tour mode for instance... and the only DLC that seems to matter is Dave Ghrol, Queen, and the freebies. the HMX bands one doesn't count since not all the HMX band's songs were usable for that challenge... a "quickplay only" game gets old fast... at least WoR gave players challenges per-song. so every single DLC had multiple reasons to play... and their story mode lasted several hours longer... the RB3 story mode can be mastered in less than 1.5 hours. that's not worth paying more than $5 for IMO. It's a literal Arcade game sold at retail price... should just be in the arcades and cost a quarter to play a song.

    This doesn't really make sense, both GH and RB story modes are basically identical, go play these songs and try to hit all the notes and get a high score. No matter how you dress it up, either by making it a pseudo-realistic lifespand of a band or a group of musical wars trying to save the world from a giant robot by playing ten different genres of metal, it's still the same thing.

    Also, HMX was probably too busy adding some new groundbreaking, one-of-a-kind feature to focus too much on a story mode.


    Radio's generally only add 1 song a week, more than 10,000 songs come out a week. I like music more than the average radio listener. I don't listen to radios not TVs. they are corporate sponsored evil crap... propaganda and dogma is all they are good for. I live for the concert scenes, underground shows, internet searches and all sorts of music. I have about a terabyte of music currently in my itunes. I may have a "terrible taste in music" but at least I'm not closed minded like most people. People who still listen to the same 10 or 11 songs they did in high school and refuse to listen to anything else; those people fill my heart with sadness. I feel sorry for them...

    I really doubt that people who do that even exist, or if they do they are such a minority that mentioning them is completely irrelevant.

    I personally like almost everything rock from the beginning to now. I like stuff like the beach boys and stuff like Static-X, I like stuff like The Eagles and stuff like Linkin Park, I like stuff like Metallica and stuff like Boston, I like stuff like 311 and stuff like Fear Factory, I like stuff like The Offspring and stuff like Fleetwood Mac... I like more styles, genres, types of music than most people, if that means I have a terrible taste in music, than I'm proud of it.

    7 of your 10 bands have songs in Rock Band, right now. 5 of those 7 even have at least three tracks, and most of them have even more. Also, if you really analyze it, that isn't that broad of a musical taste as there are numerous vast genres being unrepresented including Jazz, Rap, Pop, Folk, and Punk Rock. I mean, sure, you listen to a lot of Alternative and various genres of Metal, and that might be more diverse than those people you described earlier, but it still isn't too diverse.

    You have some legitimate issues with the RBN, right, but these issues aren't really things that HMX can do much to change and I'm sure that they don't like the situation even more than you, but unfortunately that's just the way it is. Look at the bright side, apparently there's 7 bands that you like that have material already released that you can enjoy playing in Rock Band right now.
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524750 said:
    I personally like almost everything rock from the beginning to now. I like stuff like the beach boys and stuff like Static-X, I like stuff like The Eagles and stuff like Linkin Park, I like stuff like Metallica and stuff like Boston, I like stuff like 311 and stuff like Fear Factory, I like stuff like The Offspring and stuff like Fleetwood Mac... I like more styles, genres, types of music than most people, if that means I have a terrible taste in music, than I'm proud of it.

    7 of those 10 bands have material in Rock Band, two of them (Linkin Park and Fleetwood Mac) have had large packs of DLC since RB3 was released. That being the case, what's the problem with Harmonix also releasing a few artists that you don't like?

    Damn ninjas...
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    Oscarvarium;4524804 said:
    7 of those 10 bands have material in Rock Band, two of them (Linkin Park and Fleetwood Mac) have had large packs of DLC since RB3 was released. That being the case, what's the problem with Harmonix also releasing a few artists that you don't like?

    Damn ninjas...



    I was using specific examples from rock band, I was trying not to use examples people wouldn't know.



    AskariNari -
    almost everyone I work with is like that, almost everyone my wife works with is like that... how old are you if I may ask?


    As for liking other types of music, it's mostly hit and miss...
    Jazz, I do like in small doses... hence why I like bands like "Candaria" (Jszz-metal) and 311 as well as Apartment 26 (which fusions some jazz)
    Rap, I can't stand most rap, too vulgar and hate filled... but obviously, I like stuff like Linkin Park, (Hed) P.E., Korn, Fear Factory, Beastie Boys who all feature hip-hop and rap in their songs and even some older Rap music from various artists...
    Pop, some older 80's and 90's pop I do like, but almost nothing coming out of the industry now a days is even tolerable... so you got me there.
    Folk, I guess that you win this one, I wouldn't even know what counts as folk...
    Punk Rock, Offspring isn't punk anymore? Sum 41, The Unseen, Boyhitscar, Ramones, Blink 182, Heather Hates You... to name a few... can I get that one revoked now?
  • SirDavidTLynchSirDavidTLynch Headliner
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524750 said:
    I'm sure the poor DLC sales have nothing to do with RB3 not implementing DLC in a way that makes it worth it to play them... lack of a sustainable tour mode for instance... and the only DLC that seems to matter is Dave Ghrol, Queen, and the freebies. the HMX bands one doesn't count since not all the HMX band's songs were usable for that challenge... a "quickplay only" game gets old fast... at least WoR gave players challenges per-song. so every single DLC had multiple reasons to play... and their story mode lasted several hours longer...
    If you're going by Achievements and nothing else, none of the DLC seems to matter in the other games. I don't want to speak for the entire Rock Band audience, but when I buy songs, I find it much more convenient to just go into quickplay than look all over the tour for a venue with the right number of songs, or go look in every tier of the challenges to see if the game randomly generated one, which it doesn't do for mixed singles or songs missing a part. GH™: Warriors of Rock is an interesting comparison considering the mediocre reviews (which were particularly bad compared to RB3), mixed reception to the story mode (which doesn't support DLC at all), and that they stopped making DLC months ago.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited October 2011
    kingtonyx;4524612 said:
    Studio time to re-record the songs is not free.

    Indeed it isn't, but if splitting stems is so cost-intensive (or impossible), it's the better option without a doubt.
  • wafflerevolutionwafflerevolution Road Warrior
    edited October 2011
    SirDavidTLynch;4524932 said:
    If you're going by Achievements and nothing else, none of the DLC seems to matter in the other games. I don't want to speak for the entire Rock Band audience, but when I buy songs, I find it much more convenient to just go into quickplay than look all over the tour for a venue with the right number of songs, or go look in every tier of the challenges to see if the game randomly generated one, which it doesn't do for mixed singles or songs missing a part. GH™: Warriors of Rock is an interesting comparison considering the mediocre reviews (which were particularly bad compared to RB3), mixed reception to the story mode (which doesn't support DLC at all), and that they stopped making DLC months ago.

    no, I am not counting challenges and achievements alone... I'm just saying AFTER playing them one time... maybe even per instrument, why play them again? where's the motivation? RB3 is boring after the super-short tour is done (which can be mastered in less than 2 hours). there's nothing to do without having pro-mode... which I'm not interested in.

    most of the challenges revolve around playing the on-disc songs which I don't like almost all of.

    People who read reviews like they are gospel might as well just be spoon fed garbage. Review sites, reviewers, and humans in general are stupid, lazy, ignorant, hateful and bias. Basing ones own opinion of those of others is a terrible way to live.

    Personally, if I were to review RB3 I'd have to give it a 3 or 4 out of 10. WoR would get something like a 7 or 8. I get banned and get my posts removed almost every time I talk about the things I don't like in RB3 so I'm not going into that again... it's a waste of my time.

    HMX doesn't like me being "disrespectful" to them. but I can't help that RB3 is nothing beyond a bland quickplay arcade style game... which is great if it's not the core of the game... or if the game is permanently set up in a bar... or arcade... but for a fun factor? no, it's not enjoyable to have a quickplay only game.

    and I guess I'm mistaken, but... didn't you already have me on your ignore list?


    SheSaidSheSaid;4524944 said:
    Indeed it isn't, but if splitting stems is so cost-intensive (or impossible), it's the better option without a doubt.


    some bands have their own studio... I know for a fact 8 Days Gone did.
  • ZemanatorZemanator Rising Star
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524955 said:
    no, it's not enjoyable to have a quickplay only game.


    I prefer RB3 as a quickplay only game. JUST SAYING
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited October 2011
    Zemanator;4524970 said:
    I prefer RB3 as a quickplay only game. JUST SAYING
    Same. Did Tour off the bat for Goals/Achievements, then have only gone into Quickplay.

    Tour was never anything more than pre-determined Quickplay anyway, so it's not really a big deal.
  • Ralphy2009Ralphy2009 Opening Act
    edited October 2011
    wafflerevolution;4524955 said:
    Personally, if I were to review RB3 I'd have to give it a 3 or 4 out of 10. WoR would get something like a 7 or 8.

    Thank god you're not reviewing games then. The only gameplay "innovation" to WoR that I can remember is allowing open notes to be sustained. Couple that with an over-the-top story mode that a good number of on-disc songs didn't go with at all and you have a wholly unimpressive new entry in the franchise. I guess Rock Band 3 adding in keys, harmonies, and pro modes for all instruments wasn't a substantial thing at all and you should obviously just ignore all that.
    wafflerevolution;4524955 said:
    at least WoR gave players challenges per-song. so every single DLC had multiple reasons to play... and their story mode lasted several hours longer... the RB3 story mode can be mastered in less than 1.5 hours. that's not worth paying more than $5 for IMO. It's a literal Arcade game sold at retail price... should just be in the arcades and cost a quarter to play a song.

    Really? You need arbitrary goals to give you an incentive to play a song in a band simulation game? I'd get incredibly sick of playing a certain song over and over again to try to complete pointless challenges. Of course, there are people who play certain MMOs/RPGs and somehow have fun just by grinding, so if that's how you feel, so be it. Seems like a shallow reason to play a music game to me though. If you have no reason to play songs again now, but you think you would if HMX added challenges for every song, I have to question why you're even playing the game in the first place. Do you have to trick yourself into thinking you're accomplishing something in order to have a desire to play a song you enjoy?

    Anyway, you have fun with that WoR DLC with "multiple reasons to play." I'd rather have a bunch of new songs each week than only 84 DLC songs to choose from (with no new ones on the way) that you can play a bunch of times each for endless enjoyment with arbitrary challenges.
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