Give us the option to purchase un-edited songs?

DarkJediMasterXDarkJediMasterX Unsigned
edited March 2012 in Rock Band
I don't know if I am posting this in the right section so if you know where it can be moved to please tell me :)

Now I was sitting down with a few buddies from my video game community I put together and we were discussing the songs you play/download for Rock Band and we felt that there should be two versions we can download; The radio version and the album version. We understand that its probably by law that you can't release album version songs due to the content, but realistically once they purchase the song(s) its really out of the creators hands. Families cannot go after a company if that person bought it or doesn't keep an eye on their child/children.

We just felt that since its a T for teen game, we should have the option to purchase the un-edit version. Just a thought ^.^ Let me know if anyone agrees we should have the option to purchase un-edit songs as well as edit songs ^.^ If not its cool, can't please everyone lol

Sincerely,
Dark Hole Games Community Founder

Comments

  • AskariNariAskariNari Rising Star
    edited February 2012
    Actually, I believe it has less to do with the fact that it's a T-rated game and more to do with HMX's policy. The ESRB doesn't rate downloaded content and has no control over a game's rating when it comes to that IIRC, and Rock Band 3 does in fact have the option to have a song listed as "Mature Content" as opposed to "Family Friendly," "Supervision Recommended," or "Not Rated." HMX, I believe, self-imposes a strict set of guidelines that has nothing to do with getting sued or anything along those lines.
  • DarkJediMasterXDarkJediMasterX Unsigned
    edited February 2012
    Thanks for being mature with your posted instead of jumping down my throat, I really appreciate that. I didn't know this type of thing had come up to Harmonix before but it doesn't surprise me that it has lol. "Zemanator" I do sing the missing lyrics ^.^ "DragoonXD" I have thought about getting RockSmith but the way that game interface is set up I feel I might not like it and be out 80.00 and you can't rent it because of that extra piece you need to hook up your guitar to your Xbox 360. "No Thru22" Yeah I agree with you on it being their policy to keep it a family friendly game. "AskariNari" Hmm that's a interesting point. I don't own RB3 so I didn't know they had that feature. And if they do then maybe they could put like a password lock into the "Mature Content" and you need that same password to access them on your song list when you download them.

    I thank you all for replying and I appreciate all your views. The thought of having unedited content on RB may never happen but it's worth dreaming lol ^.^
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited February 2012
    DarkJediMasterX;4653166 said:
    And if they do then maybe they could put like a password lock into the "Mature Content" and you need that same password to access them on your song list when you download them.
    Every game is rated based on everything open. If I put pornography in a game and put it behind a few walls, the rating would still go up because of it, it doesn't matter if I never tell little Jimmy how to get past those walls.
  • DarkJediMasterXDarkJediMasterX Unsigned
    edited February 2012
    GNFfhqwhgads;4653179 said:
    Every game is rated based on everything open. If I put pornography in a game and put it behind a few walls, the rating would still go up because of it, it doesn't matter if I never tell little Jimmy how to get past those walls.
    Good point. Eh like I said even its not possible for it to happen we can still dream and/or sound ******ed singing the bleeped out words lol
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited February 2012
    We? If there was much of a 'we', you'd probably have no censorship by now.
  • edited February 2012
    Aside from the ESRB / general DLC rating discussion, there's a variety of other reasons we wouldn't want to offer multiple edits of a single DLC release. Here's a few for instances:

    * Multiple releases would mean multiple licensing agreements. We couldn't just license a song from a band and then put out as many variations as we wanted.

    * Multiple releases would mean more production and submission time. While censored / uncensored versions wouldn't necessarily mean starting from scratch, we'd still have to test and submit to 1st party for multiple versions which would mean less time to work on different tracks.

    * It would further separate the online audience. To say nothing of the sorting or purchase complications in managing difference edits of a song, introducing a split would make it that much harder to find someone with the same edit that you had while playing online.

    * I don't think there's a huge demand for it. We get more requests to further edit our output than we do requests to have fewer edits. I'm sure there is some audience for uncensored DLC, but I don't believe that it would be big enough to justify the additional licensing, production work and organizational trouble at release.

    At the end of the day you can swear if you want to, regardless of what edits we make. We won't judge.
  • MarlboroMarlboro Road Warrior
    edited February 2012
    I've said it before it really dosent bother me, If I know a curse word is coming I'll just sing it out.

    The only song that I think that could benefit form having 2 different versions would be "Killing In The Name"
  • GameMaster439GameMaster439 Road Warrior
    edited February 2012
    Marlboro;4653239 said:
    I've said it before it really dosent bother me, If I know a curse word is coming I'll just sing it out.

    The only song that I think that could benefit form having 2 different versions would be "Killing In The Name"

    That and the magic day Rock Band would get Mr. Bungle's Squeeze Me Macaroni
  • DarkJediMasterXDarkJediMasterX Unsigned
    edited February 2012
    hmxhenry;4653223 said:
    Aside from the ESRB / general DLC rating discussion, there's a variety of other reasons we wouldn't want to offer multiple edits of a single DLC release. Here's a few for instances:

    * Multiple releases would mean multiple licensing agreements. We couldn't just license a song from a band and then put out as many variations as we wanted.

    * Multiple releases would mean more production and submission time. While censored / uncensored versions wouldn't necessarily mean starting from scratch, we'd still have to test and submit to 1st party for multiple versions which would mean less time to work on different tracks.

    * It would further separate the online audience. To say nothing of the sorting or purchase complications in managing difference edits of a song, introducing a split would make it that much harder to find someone with the same edit that you had while playing online.

    * I don't think there's a huge demand for it. We get more requests to further edit our output than we do requests to have fewer edits. I'm sure there is some audience for uncensored DLC, but I don't believe that it would be big enough to justify the additional licensing, production work and organizational trouble at release.

    At the end of the day you can swear if you want to, regardless of what edits we make. We won't judge.


    thank you for giving a deep detail on the discussion :)
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited February 2012
    hmxhenry;4653223 said:
    you can swear if you want to,
    You can leave your friends behind...


    Wait, is that right?
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited February 2012
    I'm going to move this over to the main Rock Band folder because I feel like it's moved away from the RBN category.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited February 2012
    SirDavidTLynch;4653084 said:
    Being a T-rated game is exactly why you can't have unedited songs. And this has nothing to to with RBN specifically, since HMX-authored songs adhere to the same standards

    it has nothing to do with it being T-rated. Rocksmith is T-rated, and their DLC is uncensored. just check out Dammit, among others, for proof. it's entirely due to HMX's policy, not the content rating rules.
  • MusashiMusashi Unsigned
    edited February 2012
    GNFfhqwhgads;4653179 said:
    Every game is rated based on everything open. If I put pornography in a game and put it behind a few walls, the rating would still go up because of it,

    Yes, well mostly. You could say its rated on everything open that the ESRB finds.

    Case in point: DDR Extreme for PS2 is rated E10 yet has an "F-Bomb" in the lyrics of Highs Off U. I'm guessing its because the EPRB guys didn't notice. Come to think of it..maybe Konami didn't notice.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    NoThru22;4653134 said:
    Actually, I'm not convinced that you couldn't have mature DLC in a T rated game when the game itself has a disclaimer that the DLC is not rated by the ESRB. Rather, it is a Harmonix policy decision that keeps mature songs out, to keep in the spirit of being a family friendly game.
    This is actually 100% correct. I had a couple of pages bookmarked about this on my old computer.

    Two dealt with the confusion of whether dlc could be rated higher and the answer was as long as it wasn't mandatory(a patch) and was rated properly that dlc could be rated higher.

    The other was an article with hmx stating that they want to keep it to T to keep it open to a bigger audience. And the record companies agree with this.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    @hmxhenry, that article is what was orignally said before they corrected it. At first they said no, but then realized that the dlc was optional content and not mandatory so then changed it to a yes as long as the rating is displayed letting people know that it was different from the base game.

    Edit:
    Just look in the comments(there's only 3). Someone there pointed out the change in policy I mentioned on the esrb site itself.

    Edit2:
    Found it on their site:

    http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_process.jsp

    The game itself doesn't get rerated, and if the dlc would fall in line with the game it doesn't need to get rated, but if the dlc would be rated higher than the game it needs to be submitted for rating and have the rating displayed.

    And for hmx with the vast amount of dlc they put out, this would be just that much more of a headache added to what hmxhenry said.
  • edited February 2012
    bonethug0108;4653992 said:
    @hmxhenry, that article is what was orignally said before they corrected it. At first they said no, but then realized that the dlc was optional content and not mandatory so then changed it to a yes as long as the rating is displayed letting people know that it was different from the base game.

    Edit:
    Just look in the comments(there's only 3). Someone there pointed out the change in policy I mentioned on the esrb site itself.

    I know that the link is to an older post, but it's most reflective of what I understand to be the ESRB's approach. At the very least, there is a degree of... inconsistency in past policies, current policies, what is enforced and what isn't. I don't know what's happening with other developers, but I talk with the ESRB every week about everything from DLC to our podcast.

    By no means does that mean it's impossible to release DLC that isn't consistent with the in game rating, but regardless of the ESRB's official stance, my take is that it's frowned upon and not exactly encouraged. It seems to be a rarity with other games, and with our audio team, ESRB, labels, 1st parties and the majority of our community on the same page it's safe to say that we're not going to change things, regardless of what policies may exist.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    I agree with you hmxhenry. It wouldn't be a smart business decision to do it no matter how you look at it.

    I was just pointing out the correction and that it is possible.

    That said, I'm one of the biggest supporters of ending censorship due to words. When it comes to words context is way more important than content. A lot of what gets by in rock band is way worse than a simple f-bomb.

    But this is NOT hmx's fault. It is our society. You can call someone stupid and not get in as much trouble as simply saying the word s*** or f***. It's ass backwards. Especially when you consider what gets by on tv with sex and violence, but god forbid you don't curse. OH NO! Bugs bunny was way worse than a million curse words.

    But enough ranting. I completely back hmx's decision to play the game. It's the only smart business move. Way more people are put off by cursing in a game than are annoyed by it's abscence(even though I fall into the latter). I just wish our society would grow up.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited February 2012
    hmxhenry;4654024 said:
    By no means does that mean it's impossible to release DLC that isn't consistent with the in game rating,
    Which you have before, just not in the blatant cussing way. Iron Maiden's 2 Minutes to Midnight says 'To kill the unborn in the womb', and you guys got away with that line in DLC, while Guitar Hero 5 censored most of it since it was on-disc.
  • dog037dog037 This Many Days Since Last Ban:
    edited February 2012
    Henry are we getting Killing in the Name soon?
  • edited February 2012
    GNFfhqwhgads;4654092 said:
    Which you have before, just not in the blatant cussing way. Iron Maiden's 2 Minutes to Midnight says 'To kill the unborn in the womb', and you guys got away with that line in DLC, while Guitar Hero 5 censored most of it since it was on-disc.

    Yeah, it's an imperfect and inconsistent process. What flies in one game may not fly in another, same for song to song. I know that it has a lot to do with severity, tone, frequency, etc. RBN guidelines shine some light on what kind of lyrical content is acceptable but it's a big old gray area. If it was up to me we wouldn't censor anything, but that's just me.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    @gnf, both could easily fall under the T category, though I see your point(in many other songs also). Many games have cursing and are still rated T. I think it has more to do with not wanting to upset people than to do with ratings. They push it but only so far.
    dog037;4654100 said:
    Henry are we getting Killing in the Name soon?
    Oh how I wish, even if censored heavily(though hopefully the leave the full song intact and just blank the words).
  • jeronemitchelljeronemitchell Road Warrior
    edited February 2012
    dog037;4654100 said:
    Henry are we getting Killing in the Name soon?

    We're not exactly talking "SirPsychoSexy" here. The most prominent difficulty is one F-Bomb repeated, and the song works well enough with that taken out.

    Or, perhaps this is a cunning trick to get HMXHenry to confirm more Rage.

    Hmmm...

    Henry, as we getting "No Shelter" anytime soon?

    ;)
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    jeronemitchell;4654111 said:
    We're not exactly talking "SirPsychoSexy" here. The most prominent difficulty is one F-Bomb repeated, and the song works well enough with that taken out.

    Or, perhaps this is a cunning trick to get HMXHenry to confirm more Rage.

    Hmmm...

    Henry, as we getting "No Shelter" anytime soon?

    ;)
    There's a radio edit out there that plays the whole song but bleeps the curses. I prefer we get that.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited February 2012
    hmxhenry;4654101 said:
    Yeah, it's an imperfect and inconsistent process. What flies in one game may not fly in another, same for song to song. I know that it has a lot to do with severity, tone, frequency, etc. RBN guidelines shine some light on what kind of lyrical content is acceptable but it's a big old gray area. If it was up to me we wouldn't censor anything, but that's just me.

    there you go, people. don't worry, when hmxhenry successfully launches his coup to take over rulership of HMX and rock band, we'll have all the uncensored content we could ever want.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
  • trojannemotrojannemo Rising Star
    edited February 2012
    the censorship is an interesting discussion.

    I am not bothered by cursing and I do it plenty, but when it comes to music I prefer it edited. what I don't like is when you bleep or just cut out the audio...I like when artists do double recordings and change a word or two to something also appropriate but not an expletive.

    and in the context of the game, definitely needs to be censored. a good portion of the players are underaged, and don't need any more bad words in their language. and then you also have venues where the game is welcome but foul language wouldn't (my law school, for example).

    lastly, I can't think of a RB3 song right now, but I can think of American Pie from Band Hero, where they censored "whiskey" the entire song....I wonder why.
  • bonethug0108bonethug0108 Headliner
    edited February 2012
    trojannemo;4654334 said:
    and in the context of the game, definitely needs to be censored. a good portion of the players are underaged, and don't need any more bad words in their language. and then you also have venues where the game is welcome but foul language wouldn't (my law school, for example).
    I completely disagree with the kids using this language thing. This is the exact thinking of society. I know kids that could say way worse things to you without using anything that would be bleeped. It's not that words, it's the context. Stop thinking these words themselves are harmful.

    If I say "go fly a kite" or "f*** off", they mean the same thing. People shouldn't treat one as acceptable and the other as horrible. They are both bad.

    If I say "that was a fantastic interview" or "that was a f****** great interview", neither should come with a gasp. They are both good compliments.

    Another instance I can give from personal experience. My almost two year old daughter repeats EVERYTHING. Sometimes her mom(jokingly or out of malice) tells me "shut up" and "f*** you". Needless to say she says both of these.

    Thing is she only knows what shut up means, not the other. So when she says shut up she gets a whooping if she's being sassy with it, and when she says f*** off I just say that's not nice to say since she isn't trying to be mean.

    Now as for the last part of this, it is one of the reasons I agree with hmx on their decision. Society just isn't ready to grow up and understand the difference.
  • trojannemotrojannemo Rising Star
    edited February 2012
    well context might require further censoring, but you can't say that expletives shouldn't be censored at all because context isn't (at all?) being censored. just because **** has been used so much that now it's acquired meaning through context, doesn't change the fact that the language (any language, as I see it both in English and in Spanish) would be better off without that word or many others.

    and I know kids say horrible things...I've been surprised to hear my best friend's little brother say things that made me look again and check it was indeed a 10-year old saying them....but that doesn't mean they need to hear them repeated in a song or in a game. that just reinforces their use instead of deter it.

    maybe i'm having a philosophical moment right now. I use them all the time, but I wish I didn't, and I wish we didn't as a society.
  • GNFfhqwhgadsGNFfhqwhgads 99% Washed Up
    edited February 2012
    Curse words are only bad because you were raised thinking they were bad.
  • WitticusWitticus VERY DEEP
    edited February 2012
    GNFfhqwhgads;4654383 said:
    Curse words are only bad because you were raised thinking they were bad.

    That's right motherf***er!
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