Flexibility in vocal charting

SableagleSableagle Opening Act
edited May 2012 in The Rock Band Network
Is there any?

{showing_my_age}In editing a .wad file for Doom2, it was possible to make creatures or items only appear on a specific level, so there could be an Imp in Not Too Rough, a Hell Knight in Hurt Me Plenty or a Baron Of Hell in Ultra-violence.{/showing_my_age}

I know the charts only include some notes for any skill level below Expert, but do they have notes that aren't the same on Expert, like strummed notes instead of HO/PO, and, particularly, does the same apply to vocals?

I suspect vocalists are stuck with the solo chart or the harmony chart and just get leeway, which would seem perfectly reasonable except I'm thinking of Think Of Me and Poor Wand'ring One, and they each have parts that just can't be made easy by giving some leeway but could be simply dropped from the chart or even, in Ultrastar, mostly cut from the .mp3 file and the chart for the easier version.

There will never be a day when I won't think of you for the easy, but the full thing ought to be available too, maybe as a bundle, AC/DC-style? I'd think "the whole show as a bundle" would be the way to do it anyway. Likewise, Yes, one! Yes, 'tis Mabel! really should be done properly. It's a show-stealer if it's done properly, which of course means it's a five-demon-heads moment in a three- or four-ball song. Damn this painfully slow, brand-new router. It's taking an age to find the one I had in mind. I think this is it. The "like" button is stuck down. You get the idea, anyway. Is there a way to have "Easy" skip much of the long notes and "Expert" make you sing them all, or would it have to be two versions of the song and two setlists?

Comments

  • DeferredGalaxy3DeferredGalaxy3 Rising Star
    edited May 2012
  • Tego1inTego1in Road Warrior
    edited May 2012
    I have no idea what 40% of your post meant, but I think I get your question.
    When you lower the difficulty on vocals, the amount of time you need to sing correctly is shortened in that the multiplier pie/bar will fill up quicker. So on Easy, you would probably need to sing about 60% of the actual note length for it to count.
  • ArcanonArcanon Rising Star
    edited May 2012
    Vocals are only authored one time, for Expert. The game then scales the difficulty down so you don't have to hit as much of the phrase to nail it on lower difficulties. The higher the difficulty, the more you need to sing on-pitch to fill the pie.
  • DeferredGalaxy3DeferredGalaxy3 Rising Star
    edited May 2012
    Tego1in;4748022 said:
    I have no idea what 40% of your post meant,

    I think the first part with "Showing_my_age" was proving he was over 18 years old because he plays Doom 2, or something, which I really don't think that would really change anything.
  • AskariNariAskariNari Rising Star
    edited May 2012
    DeferredGalaxy3;4748164 said:
    I think the first part with "Showing_my_age" was proving he was over 18 years old because he plays Doom 2, or something, which I really don't think that would really change anything.

    I'm trying to decipher what the last paragraph is talking about personally.
  • DLCquickplayDLCquickplay Unsigned
    edited May 2012
    Tego1in;4748022 said:
    the amount of time you need to sing correctly is shortened
    Actually, it's the precision that changes. On lower difficulties you're allowed to sing more out of tune and still get credit for it.
  • machetemonkeymachetemonkey Opening Act
    edited May 2012
    DLCquickplay;4748345 said:
    Actually, it's the precision that changes. On lower difficulties you're allowed to sing more out of tune and still get credit for it.

    I think he understands that, but he was just saying that because that precision is changed, if you sing on-tune then you theoretically don't have to sing as much of the phrase to get a full pie.
  • SableagleSableagle Opening Act
    edited May 2012
    Showing my age by having made custom content for Doom2, back before we had Quake. :p

    I've observed the more forgiving pitch analysis and the faster-filling pie chart / bar graph on lower skills. It was the actual chart I was wondering about.
    Vocals are only authored one time, for Expert.
    That was what I thought. There was no reason to do it any differently, really.

    The last paragraph links to reasons to do it differently. Assuming I got the links right, there should be some really hard vocals at each of those links, and they'd make the whole song a lot harder than it would otherwise be. Evanescence Bring Me To Life gets rather hard at the end because you're too busy doing the other vocal part to catch your breath and that last note's kind of long, but I've heard Mabel beat that by a mile. Not being able to 100% a song because of one bit is kind of frustrating, but crashing out at that point because it's that long would be bad.

    I think the thing to do is record and chart the Expert / Hard version and edit it down to a Medium Easy version, then include both.

    Thanks for the replies.
  • QuazifujiQuazifuji Opening Act
    edited May 2012
    The thing is that when someone wants to sing a song, they want to sing the whole song. If someone's singing a song they like and then a bunch of lines are missing from the top to make it easier than sort of ruins it for them. For gameplay purposes, leaving out or simplifying particularly tricky lines would make some songs a lot easier on easier difficulties, but for party/karaoke purposes, that would be completely awful. It's much better to leave all of the lines in, but just make the pitches lenient.
  • SableagleSableagle Opening Act
    edited May 2012
    1) Yeah, that's why I want to have the full version as well for people with iridium throats.

    2) I'm not even talking about leaving out a line. I'm just looking at the difference between the relatively easy: "Yes, 'tis Mabel," and: "There will never be a day when I won't think of you," and the rather more challenging: "Yes, 'tis Ma-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-aaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa-beeeeeeellllllllll," and: "There will never be a day when I won't think o-o-o-o-o-o-ooo-o-o-o-o-o-o-ooo-o-o-o-o-o-o-ooo-oooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooof yooooouuuuu." That's why I linked the vids. They were supposed to illustrate the different deliveries of the same line.

    For another, check out Charlotte Church singing "Oh, come, all ye faithful," on the Dream A Dream album, back when she didn't smoke and had the voice of an angel rather than the voice of Lee Marvin. She starts at 0:48. Compare her track to the chorus who are following the sheet music after about 2:23. In that case, you'd have the choice of singing her blue lead line or the sensible brown harmony line for your awesomes, but the triple would be hard to get and Mabel's song isn't one you get to sing in harmony. It's the answer to "Oh, is there not one maiden breast?" and it begins with "Yes, ONE!" It's a solo. Bad Sableagle! No easy harmony line for you.
  • AskariNariAskariNari Rising Star
    edited May 2012
    Oh, now I see what you're saying. That would be cool to work into the game, but the amount of discretion involved to make that work would be so subjective that everyone will complain about it at some point for some song. You could play on harmonies with just one mic and no fail and sing whichever one you want. The only issue would be that you have to hit at least one line for each phrase, meaning parts that are only on harmony and not solo vocals would have to be hit or you'll get penalized (but that's why I mention NF mode).
  • OscarvariumOscarvarium Rising Star
    edited May 2012
    Thing is, even people who aren't very good singers (such as myself) might want to sing the much more fun and more difficult parts. I might not be able to hit all the notes accurately, but I wouldn't want to be nerfed down to a more simple line because that wouldn't be as much fun. Think of the 'bad karaoke' aspect.

    From a technical point of view, having different vocal tracks like this would double the number of vocal stems required (there are already 2-4 stems for vocals) so it would drive up filesizes and build/upload times. Not to mention the amount of extra vocal charting required, as vocal charting is generally agreed to be the most time-consuming part of making a song.
  • DLCquickplayDLCquickplay Unsigned
    edited May 2012
    machetemonkey;4748556 said:
    I think he understands that, but he was just saying that because that precision is changed, if you sing on-tune then you theoretically don't have to sing as much of the phrase to get a full pie.
    I'm not really sure why I feel like arguing, but when answering someone who wants to know the technicalities of how vocal difficulties work I think it would be more logical to say how it actually works instead of an incidental side effect of how it works.
  • Tego1inTego1in Road Warrior
    edited May 2012
    DLCquickplay;4749603 said:
    I'm not really sure why I feel like arguing, but when answering someone who wants to know the technicalities of how vocal difficulties work I think it would be more logical to say how it actually works instead of an incidental side effect of how it works.
    No problem. I thought that when harmonies were introduced, the old way of making the lines larger would clutter up the harmony lines so they made them all the same size regardless of difficulty. I don't play vox often, but I guess that the leniency is still there, just without the visual indication.
  • DLCquickplayDLCquickplay Unsigned
    edited May 2012
    That could be confusing I suppose. In RB2 the width of the lines represented the margin of error you could have and the pitch arrow behaved the same way regardless of difficulty, but it's not like that in RB3. Instead of width of the pitch lines changing, the pitch arrow gravitates more toward the pitch line.
Sign In or Register to comment.