Wii as the redheaded step child console

orioles35orioles35 Opening Act
edited February 2013 in Peer To Peer Support Forum
So I just got through playing and my connectors blinked out on me again, even though they're all connected to a hub. Yesterday the game locked up after about an hour.

On Twitter, all the free DLC codes and contest are for XBox and PS3.

Then this week, Wii players won't have the Aerosmith tracks for over another month.

Why are Wii players treated like this? Why can a WORKING version of the software be offered, even as a download? The usual answer is "blame Nintendo", but surely SOMETHING can be done. With no RB4 in sight, it seems Wii players are stuck with buggy software indefinitely.

Sorry for the vent, got frustrated and quit after the connectors crapped out again.

Comments

  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    What do you have against redheads?
  • orioles35orioles35 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    I knew that was coming...
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited February 2013
    All free DLC is because > blame nintendo. they don't do free stuff.
    Aerosmith > blame both (maybe) but because Nintendo doesn't allow shifting around in their schedule HMX couldn't add it in next week.
    The "why no re-released working version" > Blame HMX for putting out the game like this, blame money for not bringing out a new version with fixes (which might also make compatibility with old version a problem) and blame Nintendo for not allowing patches.
  • KyleJCrbKyleJCrb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    orioles35;4977822 said:
    So I just got through playing and my connectors blinked out on me again, even though they're all connected to a hub.
    Sounds like a hub power issue. How many instruments do you have plugged in? Does the hub have any external power? I personally never had this problem on the Wii, but that may be because I had Guitar Hero instruments, which don't use dongles (although, now that I remember, my drums were RB2 drums and did use a dongle, I never had a problem with them either.)
    On Twitter, all the free DLC codes and contest are for XBox and PS3.
    Nintendo doesn't offer DLC codes, so there isn't much HMX can do about that.
    Why are Wii players treated like this? Why can a WORKING version of the software be offered, even as a download? The usual answer is "blame Nintendo", but surely SOMETHING can be done.
    Unfortunately, there is no way a fixed RB3 is going to be downloadable for the Wii, considering Nintendo's 45-megabyte restriction on downloadable titles and the inability to patch Wii games (unless the developers specifically designed the game with patching it in mind and built their own patching infrastructure.)
  • MySummerJobMySummerJob Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    This thread makes me feel like I'm back in the early days when I was new to this forum...


    Anyway, the problem is with Nintendo, and the market. If Nintendo allowed patching, then you would have a game that is (close to being) bug free. If the Rock Band games still sold, then we all would probably be talking about how great RB4 is/will be.

    That's just how things are sadly.
  • www1221www1221 StackOverflowError
    edited February 2013
    orioles35;4977822 said:
    On Twitter, all the free DLC codes and contest are for XBox and PS3.
    Blame Nintendo.
    orioles35;4977822 said:
    Then this week, Wii players won't have the Aerosmith tracks for over another month.
    Blame Nintendo.
    orioles35;4977822 said:
    Why are Wii players treated like this? Why can a WORKING version of the software be offered, even as a download? The usual answer is "blame Nintendo", but surely SOMETHING can be done. With no RB4 in sight, it seems Wii players are stuck with buggy software indefinitely.

    Sorry for the vent, got frustrated and quit after the connectors crapped out again.

    Blame Nintendo. They didnt allow updates so you were stuck with a buggy version. Had Nintendo allowed updates the Wii would have gotten the same updates that the PS3 and 360 did and it would probably be less buggy.
  • Lawdog1521Lawdog1521 Squirrel Chasing Expert
    edited February 2013
    Blame Sony.


    I don't know how but it's only a matter of time before it's figured out to be their fault.
  • DentataDentata Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    With RB2, they delayed the release on the Wii and gave us a game that worked extremely well because they waited until the bugs were ironed out. With RB3, they knew they couldn't patch it yet they released a game that had lots of very obvious bugs. Folks in the past have blamed Viacom for pressuring the release before it was adequately tested, but we'll never hear the real story. HMX, long after they were separated from Viacom, continued to market and sell the very flawed Wii version, including hyping the re-release by MadCatz. That is all on HMX.

    Folks who are serious about RB3 and are on the Wii have mostly switched consoles. They aren't going to do anything about it so that is your only choice. It looks extremely unlikely that there will ever be an RB4. Even if there was, I would never buy it on a Nintendo console, nor will I ever buy a WiiU.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited February 2013
    Dentata;4978180 said:
    HMX, long after they were separated from Viacom, continued to market and sell the very flawed Wii version, including hyping the re-release by MadCatz. That is all on HMX.

    as I mentioned before, something like bringing out a new fixed version could have made it incompatible with old versions. Which would also be quite bad
  • DentataDentata Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    jibjqrkl;4978187 said:
    as I mentioned before, something like bringing out a new fixed version could have made it incompatible with old versions. Which would also be quite bad
    Only if they screwed up testing again. Software is my profession, I understand quite well the issues involved, and it would have been possible to make it work. I'm not asking for them to make a new version at this point, it is way too late, but it is just flat out wrong to say it wasn't possible to release a compatible version.

    The right answer was either hold the release until it was better than Beta quality, or just not release it at all. Selling a defective product years after you knew it was defective seems wrong to me.
  • HaibaneHaibane Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Dentata;4978192 said:
    Selling a defective product years after you knew it was defective seems wrong to me.
    True, although the same can be said of *buying* a product years after it's known to be defective ^^
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited February 2013
    You want a poorly-treated console? The PlayStation 2 never had any Rock Band downloadable content, all its cinematics were pre-rendered, there was no online multiplayer option, and hell, they never even got anything beyond Rock Band 2. They didn't even get all of the track packs! Wii users have it good compared to the PS2.
  • defdog99defdog99 Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    In the good ole days before the Internet, people used to receive updates to software via snail mail and formal requests to the company.

    Some software updates were free. Some were minimal to cover disk media, and shipping.

    I know HMX would never do this, but there was a time and a place in history... when updates were done this way. A phone call, a letter, a couple bucks... and updates!

    (some even went so far as to include the printed pages to the manual that changed)
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited February 2013
    HMX do deserve some (much? most?) of the blame for RB3's initial bugginess. Yes, it's remarkable that they've released five or six patches for the game, but it's also remarkable (in an ungood way) that they even needed to. Besides the 1-lighter filter and the resurrections of BHS/DC, each patch was to address a crippling bug (Caprici di Diablo bug, Squier star bug, can't remember the others because it's been so long). I know there were time constraints that related to their being sold from MTV/Viacom, but that's not much of an excuse.
  • nuttzo31nuttzo31 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    SheSaidSheSaid;4978491 said:
    HMX do deserve some (much? most?) of the blame for RB3's initial bugginess. Yes, it's remarkable that they've released five or six patches for the game, but it's also remarkable (in an ungood way) that they even needed to. Besides the 1-lighter filter and the resurrections of BHS/DC, each patch was to address a crippling bug (Caprici di Diablo bug, Squier star bug, can't remember the others because it's been so long). I know there were time constraints that related to their being sold from MTV/Viacom, but that's not much of an excuse.

    There was also that bug where the keyboard track let out a very loud buzz that should never had got through the QA process before release.

    Those of us who play rock band loud were not too impressed with that one.
  • WIIBARONWIIBARON Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Can't is a word that is used alot concerning the HMX/Nintendo relationship. Can't patch? What about the COD game that did? When you brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3, some of that time should have been testing for bugs. When you find the bugs and can't figure out the fixes needed, you delay the release to make sure your customers are satisfied, or risk your reputation. Can't release free stuff? Remember the FREE Doors songs the Wii got a week after RB3 was out? Can't import RB or Lego because of relicensing issues? The songs had no issues with licensing on the other consoles and I'm sure there aren't seperate console specific contracts with the artists to not allow this. Can't do anything to fix the mess Wii bought? How about using the fixes that are now on the other versions, repressing the disc and having the customers who bought the bad pressing send in their disc to be replaced by the fixed one? And of course take the bad disc off the market. Kind of like a car recall or TSB. Or an exchange program to convert your Can't fix Wii into a fixed PS360 version disc, DLC and instrument setup. That would be doing right by the customer, who is KING.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited February 2013
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Can't is a word that is used alot concerning the HMX/Nintendo relationship. Can't patch?
    Nope, not unless the game is built from the ground up with a capacity for it completely from the developer. Which is so crazy more complicated than I'm making it sound. It's a ridiculous amount of infrastructure designing that no one should have ever expected HMX to do (and it indeed is literally impossible now) on the console that has far and away the smallest userbase. The costs would have massively outweighed the gains, possibly even to HMX's ruin (I can't say for sure, since I don't have access to their books).

    It will be different for the WiiU. But RB3 is still a Wii game, even if you play it on the WiiU.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    What about the COD game that did?
    Wouldn't know, since I don't play any of those games, but I'm guessing it must have done what I described above. Those games have playerbases hundreds if not thousands of times larger than RB's. Different cost/benefit analysis.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    When you brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3, some of that time should have been testing for bugs.
    Absolutely. But what is this "brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3" you're referring to?
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    When you find the bugs and can't figure out the fixes needed, you delay the release to make sure your customers are satisfied
    Absolutely. Like I said, the MTV sale is trotted out as an excuse, and it probably is the proximate cause, but I still think it's a pretty weak excuse.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    or risk your reputation.
    I think they're doing okay.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Can't release free stuff?
    Generally speaking, no. Nintendo have a policy against it. Which makes
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Remember the FREE Doors songs the Wii got a week after RB3 was out?
    that all the more confusing. How did that work, actually?
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Can't import RB or Lego because of relicensing issues?
    There's probably some technical reasons, too.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    The songs had no issues with licensing on the other consoles
    At the time Lego and RB1 exported (and the track packs, for that matter), no one had ever even considered exports for the Wii. They weren't a thing that existed. HMX blazed some serious trail here for exports to ever happen on the Wii. I'm not saying just be happy for what you have, but...well, you probably should be happy for what you have. It could have very easily been nothing.

    I'd say it's probably more likely that those past games will come to the store as regular DLC, but the fact that that hasn't happened yet (you know if HMX could do it, they would in a heartbeat) means it doesn't look too likely either.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    and I'm sure there aren't seperate console specific contracts with the artists to not allow this.
    Now you're just being ridiculous. Are you an entertainment lawyer? Do you have firsthand experience in the field of licensed music in video games? If not, you can't possibly know this. Neither can I. Neither can any of us with the possible exception of RBN authors.
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Can't do anything to fix the mess Wii bought? How about using the fixes that are now on the other versions, repressing the disc and having the customers who bought the bad pressing send in their disc to be replaced by the fixed one?
    That takes significant development time and resources, and we know they're shifting resources away from RB. Just because fixes were developed on PS3 and Xbox doesn't mean they'd be simple to do on the Wii. It may even mean they're not possible (I don't know much about video game programming). Creating a new retail release is obviously a cost they're not going to shoulder, and even if they did it could cause even bigger problems in compatibility with the old one. Or would you personally guarantee that every single Wii user would track it down?
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    And of course take the bad disc off the market. Kind of like a car recall or TSB. Or an exchange program to convert your Can't fix Wii into a fixed PS360 version disc, DLC and instrument setup. That would be doing right by the customer, who is KING.

    Now you're asking for free content from a company (Sony or MS) that you've had no dealings with. Please tell me you understand how silly this is and you were just being absurd.

    Look, no one's happy that the Wii version of Rock Band is such a pile of crap, and HMX do have the lion's share of the blame for it. If you wanted to walk away, no one could say you were being petulant. But you can't just expect HMX to do prohibitively expensive things because you're angry at them.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited February 2013
    as for the RB1 export, that required a patch that allowed you to take the songs off the disc.

    and no patches.
  • KyleJCrbKyleJCrb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    CoD are the only games on the Wii that get patches, because Activision developed and maintains the entire patching framework for their games. It IS possible to develop games for the Wii in such a way that patching is allowed, but only if the developers do everything to handle it themselves. Heck, even Nintendo THEMSELVES couldn't properly patch the game-breaking bug for Zelda: Skyward Sword. They offered a special channel to fix saved games that were affected by the bug, but the glitch itself still affects any new saved games, so it's not Harmonix just getting the short end of the stick here.
  • ricecakericecake Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    As for the Doors pack, I was under the impression that Nintendo allowed it only because it was a limited-time free thing, not permanently free.
  • DavidTLynchEsqDavidTLynchEsq Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    WIIBARON;4978831 said:
    Can't is a word that is used alot concerning the HMX/Nintendo relationship. Can't patch? What about the COD game that did?
    You mean one game that was released after Rock Band 3? Just because one game can do it doesn't mean it was easy. So maybe they should have recalled the discs and issued new ones, but that would have been prohibitively expensive, especially with all 5 patches they released. That's why games get patched all the time, but recalling discs is extremely rare. You say that Harmonix are just making up excuses for the lack of free stuff and exporting old games, but what other reasons could they possibly have? That they're holding back content out of spite? Is it a coincidence that the Wii stopped getting free Guitar Hero songs as well?

    And why was this moved to the support forum when it wasn't requesting help for a particular issue?
  • latenightrockerlatenightrocker Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Yeah, I really hate supporting developers who do this. Same with take 2 always gimping all of the wii baseball games and not only that, but never even CHANGING the new versions of them from the past ones, which is even worse than what hmx is doing. Played RB3 again a few days ago and AGAIN the leaderboards would not work for wii u. So far ZERO times has the leaderboards worked for it. That's a little off topic, although I guarantee if it happens for the next ps or xbos hmx would care to work with the companies to see what's up.

    Also the wii is the only version which never got the free songs which the other consoles got long ago. Whatever pack it was that had the miranda cosgrove song... I forget what else was in it. They didn't care to find a way to add those to the wii because they already served their purpose back when the RB songs were released for the other consoles.
  • DavidTLynchEsqDavidTLynchEsq Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Again, they submitted the songs, and Nintendo decided not to publish them. What other reasons could they (and Activision) possibly have to hold back the songs? If other developers make crappy Wii ports, that's just more reason to assume that the problem is with the Wii and not the developers.
  • esquehillesquehill Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    I found that unplugging all the mics fixed the powering-off-dongles problem.
    Doesn't work for everyone (especially singers) but... something you might
    want to try, if you can.
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited February 2013
    latenightrocker;4981783 said:
    Played RB3 again a few days ago and AGAIN the leaderboards would not work for wii u. So far ZERO times has the leaderboards worked for it.
    RB3 is a Wii game. The WiiU did not exist when it was released. The Wii's playerbase is a fraction of what the PS3's and especially Xbox's are.

    HMX cannot have been expected to know how one of their games would play on a hardware generation more advanced than existed when it was released (or hell, if it even would play on the new generation). And you cannot expect them now to devote time and resources to something that is of so little consequence to them (as all of RB itself will be, over the next few weeks).

    I'm not saying you have to like it, but I am saying you have to understand it. And repeatedly raising complaints about it doesn't suggest that you do.
    latenightrocker;4981783 said:
    That's a little off topic, although I guarantee if it happens for the next ps or xbos hmx would care to work with the companies to see what's up.
    Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, all of RB will fall by the wayside soon enough. We still don't know how DLC's and backwards compatibility will work with the new Sony and Microsoft consoles, so it may well be a non-starter.
    latenightrocker;4981783 said:
    Also the wii is the only version which never got the free songs which the other consoles got long ago.
    Which has zero to do with Harmonix themselves. Which you have been told.
    latenightrocker;4981783 said:
    Whatever pack it was that had the miranda cosgrove song... I forget what else was in it.
    That's because it was released as a single.
    latenightrocker;4981783 said:
    They didn't care to find a way to add those to the wii because they already served their purpose back when the RB songs were released for the other consoles.

    No, they didn't "find a way" to add free content to the Wii because Nintendo does not allow free content, at least not permanently free content (as suggested was the workaround for the Doors songs at RB3 launch).
  • latenightrockerlatenightrocker Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    All of these posts are wrong, as usual. Of course it had to do with HMX. They were going to ahve to pay for licensing again for the songs if they wanted to add them on wii, so they didn'[tw ant to pay just to give away free songs again. nd what they should or should not have known would happen with wii u is irrelevant, also, because now that it HAS happened, you'd think they would rather ask Nintendo what the problem is than to have a lot of unhappy customers, regardless of whose fault it is or which system the game was originally for. And, as I've said a million times, the leaderboards BARELY ever work on original wii either.
  • FujiSkunkFujiSkunk Headliner
    edited February 2013
    latenightrocker;4982985 said:
    All of these posts are wrong, as usual. Of course it had to do with HMX. They were going to ahve to pay for licensing again for the songs if they wanted to add them on wii, so they didn'[tw ant to pay just to give away free songs again.
    As has been said, Nintendo does not like hosting free content. Yes, they've done it before, but in recent years they have consistently denied such requests.

    Now it's true Harmonix could have relicensed the songs again so that they could charge for them on the Wii, but either that wasn't going to be financially viable, or it would have had Wii players complaining about having to pay for what other console owners get for free. Or both.
    and what they should or should not have known would happen with wii u is irrelevant, also, because now that it HAS happened, you'd think they would rather ask Nintendo what the problem is than to have a lot of unhappy customers, regardless of whose fault it is or which system the game was originally for.
    And HMXHenry has stated they are looking into it.

    Obviously you're frustrated, but you could be just a teensy bit less confrontational.
  • DavidTLynchEsqDavidTLynchEsq Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Why would Harmonix go through the trouble to work out licensing for hundreds of back catalog songs, another couple thousand songs since then, but not a dozen or so free songs from lesser-known bands? Do you really think Harmonix felt it was important to bring the Hautewerk pack to the Wii when nobody bought it on the other consoles, but Lights Resolve are too expensive for the same company that was working with The Beatles? Is it just a coincidence that Guitar Hero on the Wii stopped getting free DLC around the same time?
  • SheSaidSheSaidSheSaidSheSaid Washed Up
    edited February 2013
    DavidTLynchEsq;4983053 said:
    Is it just a coincidence that Guitar Hero on the Wii stopped getting free DLC around the same time?

    Obviously that's HMX's fault, too. Somehow.
  • agiles30agiles30 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    latenightrocker;4982985 said:
    what they should or should not have known would happen with wii u is irrelevant, also, because now that it HAS happened, you'd think they would rather ask Nintendo what the problem is than to have a lot of unhappy customers, regardless of whose fault it is or which system the game was originally for. And, as I've said a million times, the leaderboards BARELY ever work on original wii either.

    From talking to both Nintendo customer support and HMX customer support, I am near 100% sure that the fault of the leaderboards not working falls completely on Nintendo. As best I can understand without them giving me behind the scenes access, it has something to do with connecting to the Nintendo servers and the Wii U saying in layman's terms "I'm a Wii U not a Wii". It is the same reason that many of the Wii channels (Check Mii out, Everybody Votes, etc) do not appear on the Wii Shop Channel on the Wii U when they do on the Wii.
    As a side note, I've never had many issues with the rock central servers on the Wii aside from the occasional server errors, so I'd guess that the Wii not connecting very well must be an internet connection/ISP problem, not an HMX problem.
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