No RB on PS4?

YtsejamYtsejam Unsigned
edited March 2013 in Rock Band
After the PS4-announcement there is 1 info that really scares me: PS3 games are not playable on the PS4!

There might be a possibility to play older games via some sort of cloudservice, but I don´t think thats an option for RB and our DLC library.

This really sucks...

Comments

  • wlorcbwlorcb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Well I guess that I will keep an eye open for a good sale on PS3(I have the newer fatboy, so it will be an upgrade of sorts)

    I notice that link mentioned that the PS3 was Power-PC based, I always thought it used Sony Cell processor??

    Oh well-to quote a movie:
    Look's like I'll have to buy the White Album again
  • fcmleftyfcmlefty Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    Even though the PS4 is coming out, ps3's will be readily available for quite some time. Heck, PS2's were easy to get up until about a year ago. No worries there.

    And yeah, I guess my ps3 will eventually become a dedicated Rock Band/Guitar Hero Machine. I see no problem with that!
  • edited February 2013
    The Cell processor uses a PowerPC architecture, as far as I know.
  • skyp1eskyp1e Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    It's getting quite clear to me why HMX isn't pursuing the life of Rock Band anymore considering that everyone and everything would have to start out fresh on two of the three consoles.

    It leaves me in a tight spot because I was going to buy a second console of the next gen stripe for our living room when we move back home and keep my 360 in my office.

    I feel like I'm being forced to get a WiiU now because Rock Band is and probably will always be the main reason we bother with consoles at all.

    Of course I could just get another XBOX 360 for the living room and might just do that, but it seems a shame not to get onboard the bleeding edge for once in my life.

    On the bright side, because this feels like the reason that Rock Band DLC is ending, it doesn't really feel like the end anymore. The technology forced HMX's hand I think.

    One day, some not very soon day, it might just pay for them to start up again from scratch. I like to think so anyway.
  • wlorcbwlorcb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Der_Lex;4988779 said:
    The Cell processor uses a PowerPC architecture, as far as I know.
    thanks I did not know that.
    But then why does everyone say it is hard to write games for the PS3. If it is PowerPC based, it should be no harder to write for than the last generation of Apply products prior to them turning to Intel for their processors.
  • wlorcbwlorcb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    fcmlefty;4988778 said:
    Even though the PS4 is coming out, ps3's will be readily available for quite some time. Heck, PS2's were easy to get up until about a year ago. No worries there.

    And yeah, I guess my ps3 will eventually become a dedicated Rock Band/Guitar Hero Machine. I see no problem with that!
    With the exception of some older games bought on the PSN, my PS3 is used almost exclusively for RB3/GHWT/Rocksmith. The only exception is i do have GT5 and a driving wheel.
  • Dadasaurus RexDadasaurus Rex Rawwwwwwr!
    edited February 2013
    skyp1e;4988782 said:
    It's getting quite clear to me why HMX isn't pursuing the life of Rock Band anymore considering that everyone and everything would have to start out fresh on two of the three consoles.

    It leaves me in a tight spot because I was going to buy a second console of the next gen stripe for our living room when we move back home and keep my 360 in my office.

    I feel like I'm being forced to get a WiiU now because Rock Band is and probably will always be the main reason we bother with consoles at all.

    Of course I could just get another XBOX 360 for the living room and might just do that, but it seems a shame not to get onboard the bleeding edge for once in my life.

    On the bright side, because this feels like the reason that Rock Band DLC is ending, it doesn't really feel like the end anymore. The technology forced HMX's hand I think.

    One day, some not very soon day, it might just pay for them to start up again from scratch. I like to think so anyway.

    I was just getting ready to say pretty much what you just surmised. The next gen no-go brings some light to the situation. Given that the Wii is the weakest sister in the chain and least used for RB, this just makes sense.

    I do like your thinking on the future...and is supported mildly by the ambiguous statements HMX has made about RB down the line...let's keep hope.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    this is good news. now i don't have to waste any money buying a PS4.
  • edited February 2013
    I doubt whatever Microsoft is doing will be backwards compatible either. The cost of adding emulation is probably not worth it (or, phrased differently: I think they'll prefer to offer consoles at a lower price instead). That means that if you want to go next gen at all, it's a bitter pill you'll inevitably have to swallow.

    Fortunately, the only difficulty for me is that I'll need to convince the missus that we need one more console (either a PS4 or the new Xbox) to clutter up the living room, but that shouldn't be too hard. :)
  • HairyManHairyMan Always Rock On The Bright Side Of Life
    edited February 2013
    wlorcb;4988785 said:
    thanks I did not know that.
    But then why does everyone say it is hard to write games for the PS3. If it is PowerPC based, it should be no harder to write for than the last generation of Apply products prior to them turning to Intel for their processors.

    It's because while the Cell Processor is a PowerPC architecture, it is a custom designed chip that has "oddities" with it that make standard PowerPC compatible code not so "compatible."

    It's akin to saying that the engine of a car is an internal combustion engine. Yes, the basic premise of that is true for most cars, but the different variations of that basic "architecture" makes it so that knowing how to work with one engine doesn't mean you can easily work on another one.
  • halfaworldawayhalfaworldaway Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Harmonix should do like Sony did with the Singstar App, make a PSN version of Rock Band that is conpatable with DLC.
  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    edited February 2013
    I doubt MS even has backwards compatibility like Lex said too, RB won't be around and is NOT big like it used to be and that's the main game with a lot of Dlc.

    Otherwise, I could see a RB4 in the future, like 2015-2016 but the dlc may reset itself... that's the only way i could see it working, or we have to buy all the songs again..
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    Dangimarocker;4988818 said:
    I doubt MS even has backwards compatibility like Lex said too, RB won't be around and is NOT big like it used to be and that's the main game with a lot of Dlc.

    Otherwise, I could see a RB4 in the future, like 2015-2016 but the dlc may reset itself... that's the only way i could see it working, or we have to buy all the songs again..

    I think what is currently RB biggest strength will prove to be a stone around HMX's neck when deciding whether or not to move RB to the next gen. I think RB's greatest strength is it's library, it's freaking huge. Many people have invested a lot of money to build their libraries and are not going to be thrilled about rebuilding them next gen.

    Guitar Hero on the other hand, won't have as big a problem with this. Especially when you consider Activistion's strategy of not exporting songs to the next iteration. I wouldn't be surprised if GH appeared on the next gen machines at least 1 year befor RB.

    However, both GH and RB have a problem with instruments. The both houses need to work together this time to make sure that all instruments are compatible with all games. Also, the quality of the controllers need to be better.
  • BlasteroidsBlasteroids Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    Yes, Blame Sony.
    Der_Lex;4988767 said:
    Well, Sony officially confirmed that PSN content won't carry over.
    To be pedantic, it says GAMES not CONTENT. RB DLC is not an executable, but more like a movie. It won't play on it's own but can be played on different systems with the right software.

    Probably won't see RB DLC on newer consoles unless the cost of applying the newer DRM measures is negligible, which I highly doubt.
  • wlorcbwlorcb Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    I would like to think that any newer RB on PS4/x720 would be able to use the older DLC. After all, RB3 reads earlier dlc no problem.
    I think a bigger issue is how the current dlc is licenced and whether it would all have to be relicenced for a newer game. It would be ok if we had to pay a nominal fee to be able to reuse our current dlc with a new game, but if we basically had to rebuy all the dlc we currently have, then that game would be DOA before it even gets to beta test.

    If they released a new game, with new dlc, people might go for that. But then they would have to come up with a new title so as not to raise anyones expectations.
  • www1221www1221 StackOverflowError
    edited February 2013
    KyleJCrb;4988724 said:
    Considering it's probably also switching to x86 processor architecture (like the PS4), I'm not expecting the next XBox to be backwards compatible either.
    The rumored processor for the Xbox 365 isnt a complete 180 like it is for the PS4. So its still possible to have back comp based entirely on the processors
  • edited February 2013
    Not much of a worry for me, I just assumed my PS3 and XBOX 360 would stay around for Rock Band anyway.

    Time marches on...
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited February 2013
    Der_Lex;4988767 said:
    Well, Sony officially confirmed that PSN content won't carry over.

    Best keep that PS3 around as a RB machine, then, as well as for other PS3 games you'd like to replay.
    This makes me sad. Maybe later when they deal with streaming they'll reenable it.

    The only good news is that this means I don't care about the new platforms for a while other than eventually maybe a Wii-U
  • Virtualman007Virtualman007 Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    lvmathemagician;4988869 said:
    I think what is currently RB biggest strength will prove to be a stone around HMX's neck when deciding whether or not to move RB to the next gen. I think RB's greatest strength is it's library, it's freaking huge. Many people have invested a lot of money to build their libraries and are not going to be thrilled about rebuilding them next gen.

    Guitar Hero on the other hand, won't have as big a problem with this. Especially when you consider Activistion's strategy of not exporting songs to the next iteration. I wouldn't be surprised if GH appeared on the next gen machines at least 1 year befor RB.

    However, both GH and RB have a problem with instruments. The both houses need to work together this time to make sure that all instruments are compatible with all games. Also, the quality of the controllers need to be better.

    It's sad no BC for any PS3 games. I have a huge library and insane investment in my real drums and other peripherals. I'm rather angry at Sony's approach on this and hope they will address this transformation so it will be inviting for ppl like us that invested so much into RB3 + 1000 DLC. I can't see why they would simply not make a Digtial version of RB3 and I would imaged that Sony PSN would migrate all your existing DLC's/transaction.... It has to be possible and hardware support well it's usb instruments it should work. They should be able to emulate the ps3 as a player somehow... Oh well I feel I've been put in a corner with handcuffs with no way out to keep my PS3 and simply not bother with PS4. It does not justify to switch to PS4 with there current plans, I will wait until they figure it out, but remain optimistic regardless! HMX it's been a great ride! If you can somehow create a net new RB4 for PS4 and managed to have all previous DLC that would be an amazing accomplishment.
  • intropeeintropee Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    Der_Lex;4988767 said:
    Well, Sony officially confirmed that PSN content won't carry over.

    Best keep that PS3 around as a RB machine, then, as well as for other PS3 games you'd like to replay.

    Exactly Brother.. Screw the PS4! RB Lives on the PS3!!!! :D
    Doc_SoCal;4988930 said:
    Not much of a worry for me, I just assumed my PS3 and XBOX 360 would stay around for Rock Band anyway.

    Time marches on...
    Exactly again! :) my other brother from another mother :D
  • peterock2007peterock2007 Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    Virtualman007;4989062 said:
    It's sad no BC for any PS3 games. I have a huge library and insane investment in my real drums and other peripherals. I'm rather angry at Sony's approach on this and hope they will address this transformation so it will be inviting for ppl like us that invested so much into RB3 + 1000 DLC.

    So they should limit the capacity of the new PS, or increase the price to coddle your collection. Especially since you are a small percentage among rockband players, which is a small percentage of PS3 owners. And growing smaller as you can't even keep DLC afloat anymore. Or create enough demand to make a RB4, why should Sony care about your niche market?

    I have all DLC and I'm not the least bit upset because I knew DLC wasn't going to carry on.
  • lvmathemagicianlvmathemagician Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    The only reason I bought a PS3 was to play rockband. There is no such incentive for me to buy a PS4. Fortunately, I have Rocksmith on Steam.
  • randracrandrac Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Der_Lex;4988767 said:
    Well, Sony officially confirmed that PSN content won't carry over.

    Best keep that PS3 around as a RB machine, then, as well as for other PS3 games you'd like to replay.
    Well, that is probably the nail in the coffin for me progressing on to the next generation of video games. I am out of ports on my TV, and there is no way I am giving up my PS3 content--I have way too much invested in it.
  • skyp1eskyp1e Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    I'm leaning towards the WiiU now more than ever. For two strong reasons. It will still support RB and because I finally slipped Rock Band 3 to my friend but he's on Wii.

    Probably almost certainly for sure going WiiU.
  • peterock2007peterock2007 Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    skyp1e;4989128 said:
    I'm leaning towards the WiiU now more than ever. For two strong reasons. It will still support RB and because I finally slipped Rock Band 3 to my friend but he's on Wii.

    Probably almost certainly for sure going WiiU.

    I would strongly suggest you check into how the unpatched Wii version runs and make sure you can handle those bugs before actually buying one of their consoles.
  • HairyManHairyMan Always Rock On The Bright Side Of Life
    edited February 2013
    Virtualman007;4989062 said:
    It's sad no BC for any PS3 games. I have a huge library and insane investment in my real drums and other peripherals. I'm rather angry at Sony's approach on this and hope they will address this transformation so it will be inviting for ppl like us that invested so much into RB3 + 1000 DLC. I can't see why they would simply not make a Digtial version of RB3 and I would imaged that Sony PSN would migrate all your existing DLC's/transaction.... It has to be possible and hardware support well it's usb instruments it should work. They should be able to emulate the ps3 as a player somehow... Oh well I feel I've been put in a corner with handcuffs with no way out to keep my PS3 and simply not bother with PS4. It does not justify to switch to PS4 with there current plans, I will wait until they figure it out, but remain optimistic regardless! HMX it's been a great ride! If you can somehow create a net new RB4 for PS4 and managed to have all previous DLC that would be an amazing accomplishment.


    I mean this without any sense of offense intended, but I highly suggest that you go and take a deep look at the process of emulation. It is as far from a simple thing as you can get. The x86 style CPU Architecture being used in the PS4 is a completely different style of CPU Architecture as is used in the PS3's Cell Processor. The "architecture" refers to how the physical chip itself executes code given to it by the software. Programming software for a CPU requires the extensive knowledge of the way the CPU executes the code. Hence why the x86 architecture is so happily embraced by developers as the "instructions" for that style of chip have been widely used for decades. The Cell, while a very powerful chip, has odd instructions sets that are difficult to make use of and hence difficult to code a game for.

    To emulate hardware via software, you need to be able to take the instructions designed for one CPU that the game is written for and translate it ON THE FLY for the CPU that you are emulating the game on. You also need to take the data and information being fed back by the CPU and translate it back into what the game is expecting to get back from the CPU it was designed for.

    Also, by stating "CPU", I'm really just meaning to say "processor", because proper emulation also must do the same "translation" for each and every processor, module, component, etc. in the system that it is trying to emulate. Therefore, if you have a system that runs with a 299 MHz CPU, you would need the power to be able to emulate that CPU at 299 MHz as well as all the other chips that the emulated hardware has at the EXACT SAME TIME.

    The PS1 was a VERY simple piece of hardware with regards to what it was made of. Being as it was Sony's very first attempt at hardware, they didn't come up with any complex chips or board design. They basically took parts off the shelf, added in some copy protection, and shipped out a successful unit. Of course, this protection was quickly cracked and emulators popped up very quickly allowing one to play PS1 games right on their PCs. (As PCs at the time were already fast enough to properly emulate the PS1). This was really well shown in the whole BLEEM! incident.

    With the PS2, Sony smartened up and used a faster main CPU, but had it customized with a great deal of custom components all bundled into one chip. The "Emotion Engine". While it only ran at 299 MHz, it was quite powerful with a good deal of customization on it which aren't easily emulated.

    The PS3 was a whole different beast. Instead of the standard style of CPU like they used in PS1, or the customized and modified CPU that they used in the PS2, they went and used a completely different CPU Architecture in their Cell CPU. This thing runs at around 3.2 GHz with a whole array of custom components and instruction sets in it. It's difficult to program for due to the non-standard style of instructions it runs. It also runs at an incredibly fast speed, and the combination of high speed, non-standard architecture, and every other component that runs on a PS3 makes emulation of it in the PS4 pretty much impossible with today's technology.

    The best analogy with regards to emulation is translation of languages. If the hardware that you are trying to emulate is of a similar architecture to the system you are emulating it on, then it would be akin to translating something from Spain Spanish to Mexican Spanish. If the architecture is vastly different (such as with the PS3 and PS4) it is akin to translating Japanese Text into Hebrew Text.

    The emulation of the PS3 software on the PS4 would be like someone translating Japanese into Arabic, Hebrew, Greek, Russian, and English instantaneously during a meeting, and then immediately translating all of those languages back into Japanese when a question comes up.
  • Hogan2000Hogan2000 Banned
    edited February 2013
    That really sucks bruther. That means when the PS3 servers go down bruther then the Rock Band store goes down dude. Better buy all the songs you can now bruther.
  • Ace4eVerAce4eVer Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    This is disappointing. I'm sure they will find some way to make the PSN games work somehow through emulation. I can't imagine them running 2 completely different stores, but who knows.

    I agree with whoever posted about HMX's reason for ending DLC becoming clearer. If the NextBox won't be backwards compatible either, they're looking at an even smaller fan base and should focus on where the growth is. I'm sure both the Xbox and PS3 have some life left, but the next gen will be where they can grow.

    I'm excited to see what's next even if I am sad about losing what we have.
  • dragonflyrdragonflyr Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    so ... considering all this doom and gloom .. what is the BEST way for me to backup my ps3/dlc library? If my ps3/hd goes belly up and I have to buy a new ps3 or slap in a new drive .. can all of my dlc be backed up somehow for future transfer onto new hardware?

    thanks ...
Sign In or Register to comment.