Pinballing has ruined this game!!!

tableisttableist Unsigned
edited March 2013 in Rock Band Blitz
I mean come on Harmonix, is this really how you wanted this game to be played. The same pinballers win almost every tournament song and I know you see it, why is this fair or even fun. NERF IT!!!

Comments

  • tableisttableist Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    Always comedians that must derail threads
  • zage1337zage1337 Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    The same players will always win. That's just how it goes. Pinball didn't ruin the game. Nerfing a highly competitive powerup like flame notes did and made this situation that much worse. There is always going to be an imbalance or optimal way of scoring in a song and in a game that is about getting the highest score possible then I don't see why you wouldn't want to use the best possible strategy to achieve such a score.

    The problem was making flame notes useless and none of the other powerups can match the scoring potential of pinball. There really isn't much you can do now. You can either learn to get better with pinball and stop complaining that people are trying to use the best strategy possible in a tournament, or just not care about getting the top score.

    If flame notes were at 1,500 there would be more variety in powerup loadouts and such.

    The reason why people are derailing this thread is because this thread is ridiculous with how you started it.
  • Ketchupyoshi57Ketchupyoshi57 Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    I didn't choose the pinball life. The pinball life chose me.
  • grace_pressuregrace_pressure Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Ketchupyoshi57;4992014 said:
    I didn't choose the pinball life. The pinball life chose me.

    So true.
  • Ketchupyoshi57Ketchupyoshi57 Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    I just loaded up the game a few minutes ago after hearing rumors that Pinball was changed. From what I can tell, they buffed it. Pinball no longer accelerates slowly, meaning top pinball players can get even higher scores with lucky runs. The scoring potential has been raised. PIIIIIIIINNNNNNBAAAALLLLLL!!!
  • grace_pressuregrace_pressure Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    Ketchupyoshi57;4992043 said:
    I just loaded up the game a few minutes ago after hearing rumors that Pinball was changed. From what I can tell, they buffed it. Pinball no longer accelerates slowly, meaning top pinball players can get even higher scores with lucky runs. The scoring potential has been raised. PIIIIIIIINNNNNNBAAAALLLLLL!!!
    You know, I didn't think about it that way. I wonder if it'll just make pinball worse for everyone but the top players. If so, just wow. Also lol.
  • zage1337zage1337 Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    Pinball accelerates faster that's for sure but I also find it harder to keep it in play. Maybe I just need to get use to the new pinball engine. So dumb that they change a powerup's physics in a middle of a tournament like this.
  • tableisttableist Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    Gee, that was unexpected(sarcasm). A bunch of pinballers telling me to get better, whatever. Like I said, do you guys really think you would be topping the tourneys if they, just for once, did not allow your crutch?
  • Ketchupyoshi57Ketchupyoshi57 Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    tableist;4992058 said:
    Gee, that was unexpected(sarcasm). A bunch of pinballers telling me to get better, whatever. Like I said, do you guys really think you would be topping the tourneys if they, just for once, did not allow your crutch?

    It's not so much a crutch as it is a necessity. If Harmonix decided that some other loadout should be able to compete with Bandmate/Pinball/Synchrony, I would use that instead. I think I've proven through the Blitz leagues on Scorehero that I'm perfectly capable of using things other than Pinball (the final round was locked to Road Rage/Runaway Notes/Super Vocals). Almost all of the top pinball players were skilled Blitz players who converted to Pinball after realizing that it was the only way to get top scores after Flame Notes were nerfed. You can nerf the powerup, but you can't nerf the player.
  • malkierikingmalkieriking Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    Additionally, for the most part, we were on the top before when we were using flame notes. We made the transition, and if you want to get back to the top yourself, you should too. Otherwise, sorry, but I don't think flame notes will be reverted.

    Zage, Ketchup, and I have all made changes to our playstyles, and a lot of other ScoreHero members have all but given up with the game because they don't like the change.

    As a wise man, Mr. Miyagi once said: Pinball yes; OK. Pinball no; OK, Pinball maybe; squish like grape. (I'm paraphrasing of course)
  • tableisttableist Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    I agree, that is exactly the problem, NO OTHER loadout can touch even a decent pinballer's score. They might as well get rid of the rest of the secondary powers and just have pinball. They can call it Rock Band Pinball or Arkanoid:Rock Band.
  • BeaversBeavers Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    To be honest, I cannot help but agree with tableist.
  • zage1337zage1337 Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    tableist;4992058 said:
    Gee, that was unexpected(sarcasm). A bunch of pinballers telling me to get better, whatever. Like I said, do you guys really think you would be topping the tourneys if they, just for once, did not allow your crutch?

    yes I do.. i was topping leaderboards before I was using pinball. same with ketchupyoshi
  • CJHobbesCJHobbes Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    When nerfs/buffs are made in Starcraft, you don't see new names winning tournaments. The top players (as ketchup and zage have said) adapt and continue leading.

    This thread should be more about the chance of beating your own scores with multiple power-ups and less about winning tournaments. And we already have a thread for that here.
  • Iceman71421Iceman71421 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    I found it pretty disheartening last night in the live stream when there was a denial about the pinball change that zage brought up.

    It was unclear to me what had happened because I didnt have time to play blitz last night to check, but it seems like there actually was a change after reading the posts in this thread. The guy on the right in the stream last night is either a pretty good actor or actually had no idea of what had happened.
  • Epsilon82Epsilon82 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    So they're denying that they changed Pinball at all? I find it hard to believe that someone as experienced as Zage would mistakenly imagine some kind of non-existent change. What the hell is going on here?
  • grace_pressuregrace_pressure Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    The stream hosts didn't know about it, but that's all we've heard so far. It'd be nice if we did know, say, prior to this inexplicable buff.

    (Edit: Gonna take back the following stuff.)

    Also to note since it hasn't been said, I'm pretty sure that it also accelerates a whole lot slower on 1-lane songs. Zage and I were unable to reproduce typical scores on them yesterday.

    So yay, also more unobtainable leaderboard scores.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited February 2013
    We got trouble!
    With a capitol T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pinballing!
  • Iceman71421Iceman71421 Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    This is really F'ed. I dont know how you can run a leaderboard game this way and expect to retain players.
  • tableisttableist Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    I really hope that they have done something to pinball. You guys knew it was coming and you absolutely knew that it was completely unfair to force anyone who wanted to compete with you to use that ridiculous style of play. I have something else to say that will get everyone all fired up again, they MUST reset the leaderboards now or when they have evened the playing field a little more.
  • tableisttableist Unsigned
    edited February 2013
    CJHobbes;4992235 said:
    When nerfs/buffs are made in Starcraft, you don't see new names winning tournaments. The top players (as ketchup and zage have said) adapt and continue leading.

    This thread should be more about the chance of beating your own scores with multiple power-ups and less about winning tournaments. And we already have a thread for that here.
    Are you seriously comparing a rhythm game to Starcraft, just a little bit of difference there(sarcasm) I find it very funny that you say the same people are the only ones who can play Blitz, wrong, they are just the best at exploiting pinball. Also, it gets very hard to beat your own scores when they keep changing things around. RESET THE LEADERBOARDS!!!
  • grace_pressuregrace_pressure Opening Act
    edited February 2013
    tableist;4992262 said:
    I really hope that they have done something to pinball. You guys knew it was coming and you absolutely knew that it was completely unfair to force anyone who wanted to compete with you to use that ridiculous style of play. I have something else to say that will get everyone all fired up again, they MUST reset the leaderboards now or when they have evened the playing field a little more.

    If you were paying attention, what they did to pinball yesterday is actually the opposite of what both you and we wanted.
    1) The skill barrier was raised.
    2) The scoring and luck potential was raised.

    (Edit: Gonna take back this point.)
    3) More leaderboard scores were made unobtainable for 1 (possibly 2 and 3?) lane songs.

    You should be even more incensed at HMX, not us. Stupid-high scores dominated by top players with a single loadout with unobtainable leaderboard scores were directly caused by changes to the game. Again. (Edit: Not the unobtainable scores, at least this time!)
  • zage1337zage1337 Rising Star
    edited February 2013
    We are not forcing anyone to compete with pinball. We are just using the best possible combo that we know to achieve the highest score on the certain song. If you have a serious problem with that, then don't compete and forget about the top scores. It's not the pinball players fault that no one else compete with them. It's HMX's fault for nerfing the one powerup that can match/better pinball scores. If this was a few months ago you would moan about band/flame players destroying everyone else. If pinball get's nerfed then it will just be a blast note contest on who takes the most attempts to get lucky blast note spawns.
  • agentnncagentnnc Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    They made these nerfs to make the game more accessible right? Can someone please explain to me how that works? I haven't played Blitz in some time but it seems that with every change more people looking to play for high scores are further restricted.

    I remember HMXHenry saying that they nerfed to encourage other loadouts. I recall bandflame, jackflame, jackblast and pinball were all in the same ball park of loadouts depending on the song. Sure some were more reliable than others but you could still come pretty close. Now what's left? pinball+synchrony+(bandmate?), what even comes close to those scores? Judging by these posts, even if you have an absurd amount of skill and luck there is no loadout that comes close.
  • Meat-PopsicleMeat-Popsicle Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    This is why there are whole courses in game theory. It's hard to get right. I promise you that any "fix" that is made now will make some group of players just as mad as the group that is mad now.

    One example of how other games have handled leaderboards after a feature change: they added powerups to "Angry Birds: Space", you can get a new one free just for opening the game every day. If you get a new high score (or any score) using a powerup, it gets totalled in a different place, a separate "total score for the planet using powerups" line with a lightning bolt next to it. But I guess it could get pretty unwieldy to have a new Blitz leaderboard made every time they tweaked the rules. And, once again, it would make some group utterly furious. "I was working on getting a top 10 score on every single song, but now that leaderboard is locked and you've ruined everything". How about a different leaderboard for every permutation of powerups (including "none")? Yep, that would infuriate people. Reset to the original scoring? Another set of screams would rise up, as the damage is already done, there would still be unrepeatable scores. Set all powers at the max they've ever been? Result: fury. Reset all the leaderboards? Rage.

    I care way too much about small things sometimes, but lucky for me "the way Blitz powers are set" is not one of them. But I understand the frustration. It's too bad there is literally no solution to this issue, not at this point.
  • edited February 2013
    Hey gang,

    Can you please run down exactly what you believe has changed with pinball? Try to be as descriptive as possible. Nobody here is aware of any change at all.

    As much I know some of you would like to think there's a vast conspiracy here to ruin your experience at every chance we get, that's not the case.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited February 2013
    The description I heard Zage use in chat was it speeds up faster, and acted more like pre-buff pinball (How it acted on release day). I haven't fooled around with it myself though.
  • agentnncagentnnc Road Warrior
    edited February 2013
    HMXPope;4992297 said:
    Hey gang,

    Can you please run down exactly what you believe has changed with pinball? Try to be as descriptive as possible. Nobody here is aware of any change at all.

    As much I know some of you would like to think there's a vast conspiracy here to ruin your experience at every chance we get, that's not the case.

    I can't vouch for the latest change because I haven't felt like playing blitz much thanks to the new balancing but personally I just find that there's something to be said about the incredible amount of irony involved in rebalancing in the name of making people try many different kinds of loadouts and then leaving it in such a way that one loadout is so vastly superior that there is no other way to match the scores.
  • WitticusWitticus VERY DEEP
    edited February 2013
    HMXPopicus;4992298 said:
    Hey gang,

    Can you please run down exactly what you believe has changed with pinball? Try to be as descriptive as possible. Nobody here is aware of any change at all.

    As much I know some of you would like to think there's a vast conspiracy here to ruin your experience at every chance we get, that's not the case.

    You see pinball was created as a table top distraction for deaf dumb and blind kids. From what I understand bringing it to the digital age takes away the sense of intuition and smell. Obviously takes away the advantage. I thought I was once the bally table king, but I just handed my pinball crown to whoever sits in the top of the leaderboards. Probably something like Baller69.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited February 2013
    Witticus;4992309 said:
    You see pinball was created as a table top distraction for deaf dumb and blind kids. From what I understand bringing it to the digital age takes away the sense of intuition and smell. Obviously takes away the advantage. I thought I was once the bally table king, but I just handed my pinball crown to whoever sits in the top of the leaderboards. Probably something like Baller69.
    and this is why we love you so much <3
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