Rock Band Blitz DLC Shout audio issue

troad86troad86 Unsigned
edited April 2013 in Rock Band
Hey I wanted to make mention of this before it's too late for HMX to do anything about it.

Sorry if this doesn't belong in this section but it seems that threads are looked at more seriously if not posted in the peer to peer and this is something the community cannot help with.

I play on the WII and downloaded Shout on tuesday.

While I am excited to finally have Shout and all the blitz songs on the WII now I've noticed an issue with the audio that happens about half way into the song just shortly after the keys solo and vocals break are done.

It sounds like maybe an audio mixing problem or something but it definitely sounds different from the audio on the blitz version as well as the masters.

I've also had friends online that own the song confirm the difference in sound as well so I know it's not just me.

Any help on this from HMX would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Comments

  • illmissrockbandillmissrockband Opening Act
    edited March 2013
    it's not a bug. that song is supposed to sound awful lol
    seriously though idk.
  • peterock2007peterock2007 Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    Have you bought the song? Then it's already to late for HMX to "do something".
  • troad86troad86 Unsigned
    edited March 2013
    peterock2007;5003061 said:
    Have you bought the song? Then it's already to late for HMX to "do something".
    As I stated previously this is something the community cannot help with.
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    So today, I bought and played "Shout" by Tears for Fears, only to realize that halfway in the song, the snare notes become inaudible, which really annoys me. I took it into practice mode to make sure I wasn't hearing things, and I was right - the snares aren't audible. Is this a problem for all the Wii users that HMX never patched up?
  • troad86troad86 Unsigned
    edited March 2013
    Mileycyrussoulja;5003628 said:
    So today, I bought and played "Shout" by Tears for Fears, only to realize that halfway in the song, the snare notes become inaudible, which really annoys me. I took it into practice mode to make sure I wasn't hearing things, and I was right - the snares aren't audible. Is this a problem for all the Wii users that HMX never patched up?

    I started A thread about this previously, although I couldn't figure out what the problem was with the audio I just knew it didn't sound correct.

    So far haven't gotten any responses from HMX about the matter.

    But yes it is A problem for everyone that bought it at least on the Wii so far.

    And it really does take some of the enjoyment out of playing the song IMO.
  • agentnncagentnnc Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    The volume usually is different from blitz. Have you tried redownloading it?
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited March 2013
    Post in the release thread, and start a trouble ticket with HMX.
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    Bront20;5004059 said:
    Post in the release thread, and start a trouble ticket with HMX.

    Where do I start a trouble ticket?

    And where is the release thread? Is it just the DLC Discussion thread?
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited March 2013
    Yes, the DLC discussion thread.

    support.rockband.com I believe is the support link, but it's also my last post in that thread (because someone else asked about it there too).

    Hope you get it fixed :)
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    I don't think I'll be able to get it fixed, because it's already on the DLC store and I'm not sure if they can alter it and put it back on the store.

    Thank you nonetheless, I will try that when I have time.
  • troad86troad86 Unsigned
    edited March 2013
    I already submitted A ticket with HMX about it.

    Jessa said they are investigating it and she would get back to me once she knows something.
  • CaptSlowCaptSlow Unsigned
    edited March 2013
    "Jessa said they are investigating it and she would get back to me once she knows something."
    Read as: "We abandoned the Wii some time ago, never patched a single thing in spite of dozens of major bugs on that platform, and now we are abandoning Rock Band itself, so we'll get back to you on when we're going to fix one of the last songs we ever released for a platform that is dead for us." Remember, the engineers who created these DLCs late last year are either no longer with the company or have been reassigned to new projects.
  • Groudon199Groudon199 1 hour, 39 minutes, 52 seconds
    edited March 2013
    CaptSlow;5005117 said:
    "never patched a single thing in spite of dozens of major bugs on that platform"

    Because Wii games can't receive patches.
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    troad86;5005069 said:
    I already submitted A ticket with HMX about it.

    Jessa said they are investigating it and she would get back to me once she knows something.

    Oh, you already did? Thank you! :)
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited March 2013
    CaptSlow;5005117 said:
    "Jessa said they are investigating it and she would get back to me once she knows something."
    Read as: "We abandoned the Wii some time ago, never patched a single thing in spite of dozens of major bugs on that platform, and now we are abandoning Rock Band itself, so we'll get back to you on when we're going to fix one of the last songs we ever released for a platform that is dead for us." Remember, the engineers who created these DLCs late last year are either no longer with the company or have been reassigned to new projects.

    Try reading it as a standard response to any issue they're unaware of.

    Sure, it's possible they can't do anything, because it's already been released into the DLC store, but that response is not Jessa blowing you off.
  • ricecakericecake Road Warrior
    edited March 2013
    Post #398 in this thread (but also edited into the OP) (linking directly doesn't seem to work right anymore):
    http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224511
    hmxhenry said:
    Hey all, sorry for not responding to comments about Wait and Bleed sooner, but I wanted to make sure I had as much info as possible from Microsoft and the Audio Team here at HMX.

    To give a bit of background, there was a MIDI error that caused the tempo map at the end of the song (roughly between 2:38 and 2:50) to go out of sync. Gems were playable but did not match up with the audio as intended. This issue only affected Wait and Bleed, and only in the Slipknot Pack on Xbox 360, so versions downloaded as singles or on other platforms should be unaffected.

    The Audio Team hustled with Microsoft to replace the offer, and we've been told that a new version of the Slipknot Pack should be available in the store now. All you should have to do is redownload the pack to get the corrected version of Wait and Bleed. If there are any further issues, I'll pass comments from this thread along to everyone involved on our side.

    Thanks to everyone for your patience and feedback while we sorted this out as quickly as possible.
    So, there is precedent for fixing a song after it's already been released. However, at this point in the game's lifecycle, I wouldn't hold my breath.
  • edited March 2013
    Hey guys, we're back from PAX East now and digging into this. Can someone affected provide video so we can take at the issue described? It sounds like it's a possible issue with the MIDI which wouldn't be an easy fix on the Wii. The more info we have the better, so if anyone has video of Wii gameplay featuring the drums then I'll flag it to the DLC team.
  • wgwolfwgwolf Unsigned
    edited March 2013
    Here is a video of it. You can tell at about 3:28 or so is when the snare disappears.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    wow that's bad. sounds like the kick drum is missing during that part too.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited April 2013
  • edited April 2013
    wgwolf;5006245 said:
    Here is a video of it. You can tell at about 3:28 or so is when the snare disappears.

    Thanks for the link. I'm sure the audio difference is even more prominent in this video since it's just keys (i.e. when you're only playing keys, keys will sound more prominent, when you're only playing bass, bass will sound more prominent, etc) but I'll pass it along to Audio to see what they can tell me.
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5006672 said:
    Thanks for the link. I'm sure the audio difference is even more prominent in this video since it's just keys (i.e. when you're only playing keys, keys will sound more prominent, when you're only playing bass, bass will sound more prominent, etc) but I'll pass it along to Audio to see what they can tell me.

    Great! Hopefully it can be fixed ASAP.
  • edited April 2013
    Mileycyrussoulja;5006807 said:
    Great! Hopefully it can be fixed ASAP.

    After checking with our DLC team it's unlikely that there will be a fix. Now that the site is back up I'll dig in with them to see if we can have a more concrete response tomorrow.
  • MileycyrussouljaMileycyrussoulja Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5006910 said:
    After checking with our DLC team it's unlikely that there will be a fix. Now that the site is back up I'll dig in with them to see if we can have a more concrete response tomorrow.

    Oh no! :( Hopefully the concrete response will be somewhat promising.
  • edited April 2013
    Okay, here's the additional info that I've collected from the DLC team. It took longer than usual because there isn't really a DLC team anymore, as they've all been transitioned on to new projects.

    They've confirmed that we won't be pulling "Shout" or resubmitting and it will remain in the store as it is now. Here's some background on why that's happening:
    DLC Wizard" said:
    A piece of content on 360 or PS3 is built at HMX and hosted at first party. When we submit content for these platforms, we submit individual songs, packs, and pro upgrades. Since each piece of content has its own discreet submission, it’s relatively simple to pull down a piece of content, make a change, and republish it. Each package submitted contains 1 piece of content.

    The Wii has a very different build and submission structure, where the package submitted and hosted at Nintendo is a full release weeks’ worth of content, as opposed to individual packages for each discreet piece of content... This makes it much more difficult to make changes – removing a piece of content actually means pulling down the whole week, as well as any weeks that were submitted after that.
    Hopefully that makes sense, and you can see why it would be less than ideal to have to pull the last 3 weeks worth of content on the Wii and then resubmit, which would leave them unavailable for at least another month.

    As for how this audio issue could have occurred in the first place, here's some further background on the DLC submission process and some specifics for this track:
    DLC Wizard" said:
    When stems come in, content is mixed, authored, and built/tested... Completed content is then archived until it’s ready for submission. In the case of “Shout”, this song was part of the development schedule in August 2011.

    There’s any number of areas in which corruption could occur – be it with building, testing, submitting, or pushing the file live. Historically, if there are mix issues on one platform, they typically exist on all others. When we encounter weird cases like this, the resources needed to investigate and resolve the issue are far greater than the normal team because it’s usually something we’ve never encountered before.
    So I learned something here too. We've always tried to stress that DLC is charted and submitted well in advance of actual release, and that sometimes content is archived until there is room on the schedule, but I didn't know that "Shout" was in house and authored a year before it was released as part of Blitz.

    In addition to the possible trouble areas outlined in the quote above, that timing would also make it very difficult for us to investigate. An author or tester working on tracks in August of 2011 may be on other projects, they may have left Harmonix, or they may not remember specifics that would help us ID a problem.

    Hopefully this collection of submission info, Wii release specifics, and timing illustrates how tricky it would be to change something like this. It's obviously not ideal, but given the timing and the production challenges there's not really a viable solution for a fix. Thanks for your patience while I tracked down this info.
  • PedroRVDPedroRVD Unsigned
    edited April 2013
    I watched the video; I don't know if it's the recording, but the whole song sounds really weird.

    While it is sad that Mileycyrussoulja did not get his problem fixed, it is really nice that hmxhenry took his time at this stage of RB life to investigate a Wii problem.

    The Wii is really a terrible console for this kind of game and I still find admirable that HMX managed to put together the game, instruments and DLC store on this console.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited April 2013
    After hearing how the Wii handles DLC, I'm so glad I migrated. I hope they fixed that with the Wii-U.
  • troad86troad86 Unsigned
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5010210 said:
    Okay, here's the additional info that I've collected from the DLC team. It took longer than usual because there isn't really a DLC team anymore, as they've all been transitioned on to new projects.

    They've confirmed that we won't be pulling "Shout" or resubmitting and it will remain in the store as it is now. Here's some background on why that's happening:



    Hopefully that makes sense, and you can see why it would be less than ideal to have to pull the last 3 weeks worth of content on the Wii and then resubmit, which would leave them unavailable for at least another month.

    As for how this audio issue could have occurred in the first place, here's some further background on the DLC submission process and some specifics for this track:


    So I learned something here too. We've always tried to stress that DLC is charted and submitted well in advance of actual release, and that sometimes content is archived until there is room on the schedule, but I didn't know that "Shout" was in house and authored a year before it was released as part of Blitz.

    In addition to the possible trouble areas outlined in the quote above, that timing would also make it very difficult for us to investigate. An author or tester working on tracks in August of 2011 may be on other projects, they may have left Harmonix, or they may not remember specifics that would help us ID a problem.

    Hopefully this collection of submission info, Wii release specifics, and timing illustrates how tricky it would be to change something like this. It's obviously not ideal, but given the timing and the production challenges there's not really a viable solution for a fix. Thanks for your patience while I tracked down this info.

    Would like to point out for the record that myself and mileycyrussoldier made HMX aware of this problem before any other content was released

    It has taken this long for you to come up with A reply of why you have put A broken song on the Wii and your response is oh sorry but it's never going to be fixed.

    I was told in an email response from HMX that A solution had been suggested.

    This is not A solution, to take this much time to offer no remedy whatsoever regardless of what system this has happened on is rediculous and wrong.

    Not that my opinion and comments will change anything but I feel they are justified after waiting this long and HMX offers no solution to remedy this problem and then calls it just that.

    While I am appreciative of what HMX has done for music gaming as A whole, in this particular instance they dropped the ball completely.
  • StackOverflow0xStackOverflow0x Opening Act
    edited April 2013
    Can't the content be hidden and resubmitted as fixed? Hiding is an option as opposed to pulling as seen with the Metallica DLC.
  • edited April 2013
    troad86;5010251 said:
    Would like to point out for the record that myself and mileycyrussoldier made HMX aware of this problem before any other content was released
    The 2 threads about this topic (which I have merged) did pop up before other content was released, but not before that other content was submitted. DLC is usually submitted a month in advance of release, and in the case of the 3/26 and 4/2 DLC, that content was submitted as early as 3 months in advance as development resources were moved to new projects. So while this thread was posted in advance of release, pulling and resubmitting would have still resulted in a need to pull, resubmit, and reschedule the 2 following weeks as well.
    troad86;5010251 said:
    It has taken this long for you to come up with A reply of why you have put A broken song on the Wii and your response is oh sorry but it's never going to be fixed.
    It's taken this long for a few reasons. To start, we need to determine the severity of an issue before escalating to the DLC team, and within the first week of release we received no more than 5 unique reports that something may be wonky with the audio. Escalating issues that affect a relatively small group of users (which is also supported by sales numbers) is difficult when devs have already been rolled off on to more time sensitive projects.

    Secondly, when we had a video demonstrating the issue in the context of gameplay and were able to review with the DLC team they spent several days they weren't able to determine which file was corrupted since it wasn't affecting the Xbox 360 and PS3 releases in the same way. As mentioned above, identifying the problem in a 18+ month old piece of content posed its own challenges, to say nothing of implementing a fix.

    Finally, the timing of this release only further hindered progress. Our entire team was at PAX East the weekend after release. We put an overwhelming amount of time into prepping for the end of weekly DLC. Bombs were set off in our city and our office was closed for several days.
    troad86;5010251 said:
    While I am appreciative of what HMX has done for music gaming as A whole, in this particular instance they dropped the ball completely.
    I completely understand your frustration, and that's why I'm trying to provide as much info as possible so you can at least understand the timing, first party issues, and technical problems we're working against. At no point was this issue being ignored, it just didn't progress as fast as any of us would have liked due to these outside forces. I wanted to make sure that I posted a response, even several weeks later, because not posting at all or short changing you on any of the specifics would have been disrespectful. I know it's not the end result you'd hoped for, but I hope you can see that it's not our ideal either.
    StackOverflow0x;5010252 said:
    Can't the content be hidden and resubmitted as fixed? Hiding is an option as opposed to pulling as seen with the Metallica DLC.
    Unfortunately not. The Metallica content is a special case because neither we not Nintendo no longer have the rights to sell it. It's hidden on the back end of the store so people that have already purchased can redownload if need be.

    Resubmitting, on the other hand, requires that one track be removed entirely and replaced with a different track. We can't hide Track A and then replace it with Track A2 because that would create a completely new file. It's not like making an edit in a document, it's like creating an entirely new document. That would also mean that people that bought Track A wouldn't be able to redownload Track A2, they'd have to purchase it again as if it was a new track.

    Each console works differently and has unique restrictions for what can and can't be done with DLC, and in this case, unfortunately, there's no shortcut for a fix on the Wii.
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