One thing I will never understand with RBN and the Wii

Nick360Nick360 Opening Act
edited April 2013 in The Rock Band Network
So now that the official DLC and RBN for PS3 has been discontinued, I would like to share my personal feelings towards HMX for the lack of RBN support on Wii.

Back in Jan 2011 when I found out the HMX was discontinuing RBN for Wii, I was frustrated then and to this day, I still am! Let me show you why:

Evanescence - Going Under: #2 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE
Eiffel 65 - Blue (Da Ba Dee): #5 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE
A Day to Remember - All I Want: #10 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE
Attack Attack! - Smokahontas: #11 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE
All That Remains - Hold On: #16 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE
A Day to Remember - Have Faith In Me: #17 on Xbox 360, NO WII RELEASE

This is pathetic on HMX's part. They missed out on high sales potential and instead of looking onto that, they whine that a small portion of the 1000's of no name screamo metal songs released for Wii weren't selling at all and they still wonder why no one bought those songs. Get a clue.

Comments

  • DavidTLynchEsqDavidTLynchEsq Opening Act
    edited April 2013
    I'm pretty sure all of those songs were released after Harmonix decided to stop porting songs to the Wii. It was established two years ago that it's a lot of work to port songs to the Wii, the songs weren't selling enough, and now it's gotten to the point where the considerably easier PS3 ports aren't worth the extra work. It's a dead horse issue.
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited April 2013
    Blue and All I Want were not outside the 360 month exclusive by the time Wii RBN stopped. Going Under and Have Faith in Me were only outside by a week so it makes sense that those didn't make it. The other 2 were probably less wanted by the Wii community.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited April 2013
    1) I think all of those songs were released on RBN after they stopped doing the Wii. "Blue" is RBN2, which is definitely out of availability.

    2) The music you're complaining about that didn't sell well on the Wii sold well on the PS3, and HMX has ported over almost all of the top RBN songs to the PS3 at this point as a result.

    3) DLC doesn't sell as well on the Wii. Period. Even HMX DLC is significantly outsold by the PS3 over the wii (by a factor of 5-10 if I recall correctly).

    4) RBN conversions to the Wii required a lot of work. They effectively had to rebuilt the file from scratch. Sure, the charting was done, but the format change required a large amount of additional time. Combine this with point 3, and the cost to income ratio is significantly lowered. Meanwhile, on the PS3, it was a fairly simple header change and a few tests.

    Just to look at a few numbers, here are the top 5 selling Wii RBN songs in leaderboard plays.

    [color=black][B]Song		Band		360	PS3	Wii	Total[/B]
    Higher Creed 25,394 11,570 2,994 39,958
    Paralyzer Finger Eleven 21,135 9,300 2,541 32,976
    Bodies Drowning Pool 32,188 14,160 2,247 48,595
    Semi-Charmed.. Third Eye Blind 14,789 7,222 1,629 23,640
    Nom Nom Nom.. Parry Gripp 8,605 2,811 1,384 12,800
    Fake It Seether 16,545 6,786 1,364 24,695[/color]


    I'll let you crunch the numbers, but end result: Wii sales were not very good. (I had a longer post here, the forum ate it).
  • Nick360Nick360 Opening Act
    edited April 2013
    Bront20, I understand that the Wii DLC has always sold a lot less compared to the other platforms, in fact, HMX has complained about it before.

    However, what I don't get is that HMX thought it was still okay to release regular DLC for Wii (and I'm glad they still did), but then completely dump RBN. I'm sure HMX had to spend the same amount of extra time to convert the codes to Wii with regular DLC just like RBN.

    Obviously, the majority of RBN songs sold very poorly, but was it too hard for HMX just to give Wii users 1 song per week instead of 10, then whine about it after they're not even selling? I really wanted to play Bed Intruder and Pac Man Fever. Looking on how well the Parry Gripp songs sold on Wii, i'm sure those songs I just mentioned in my last sentence would sell at least 1,000, better than a lot of regular DLC on Wii for sure.
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited April 2013
    RBN is much more time consuming than regular DLC when considering the PS3 and Wii as HMX doesn't release the songs on 360, the respective authoring groups do. While it was feasible to release RBN songs on Wii and PS3, they did. Currently, only 360 RBN is happening as that only requires HMX to keep a website running so complete focus can be put on the new secret projects.
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited April 2013
    Nick360;5008217 said:
    Bront20, I understand that the Wii DLC has always sold a lot less compared to the other platforms, in fact, HMX has complained about it before.

    However, what I don't get is that HMX thought it was still okay to release regular DLC for Wii (and I'm glad they still did), but then completely dump RBN. I'm sure HMX had to spend the same amount of extra time to convert the codes to Wii with regular DLC just like RBN.

    Obviously, the majority of RBN songs sold very poorly, but was it too hard for HMX just to give Wii users 1 song per week instead of 10, then whine about it after they're not even selling? I really wanted to play Bed Intruder and Pac Man Fever. Looking on how well the Parry Gripp songs sold on Wii, i'm sure those songs I just mentioned in my last sentence would sell at least 1,000, better than a lot of regular DLC on Wii for sure.
    HMX already has the components for official RB DLC, so it's simple for them to pump out a Wii version with the parts. Beyond that, RB DLC sells significantly better than RBN, and HMX gets all profits from RB DLC. So likely easier, sells better, and most likely they get more money per sale. That's 3 very good reasons for me.
  • GameMaster439GameMaster439 Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    Nick360;5008084 said:


    This is pathetic on HMX's part. They missed out on high sales potential and instead of looking onto that, they whine that a small portion of the 1000's of no name screamo metal songs released for Wii weren't selling at all and they still wonder why no one bought those songs. Get a clue.

    Only 159 songs via RBN came to the Wii and most of them weren't really no name artists, Wii at the time, got the only A Day to Remember song that was on RBN, the Wii also got the 2 biggest selling Seether songs at the time, the Wii also got nearly all of the Jonathan Coulton songs released at the time, plus some other pretty known names, sure there were the smaller ones that only a select group of people bought but most of them were the biggest selling tracks at the time. Overall, if it did much better we could have gotten maybe a few tracks here and there but it didn't and that how it really ended.
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    edited April 2013
    There's also payment distribution mechanisms to consider. Xbox has the 35/35/30 (or so) split amongst HMX/MS/Author done automatically, and we don't know what arcane formulae are at work with the other first-party marketplaces. I bet for all the money saved on the audio team for not authoring the work was spent on legal/accounting ensuring that each author(ing house) got their cut, not to mention we have no idea whether it costs more to submit something to the Wii eShop or not. They even have to recompress the audio (they've mentioned it before), so even audio team doesn't really get to rest. Combine that with low sales and you get more work than it's worth when it comes to Wii RBN.
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited April 2013
    Nick360;5008217 said:
    However, what I don't get is that HMX thought it was still okay to release regular DLC for Wii (and I'm glad they still did), but then completely dump RBN. I'm sure HMX had to spend the same amount of extra time to convert the codes to Wii with regular DLC just like RBN.
    Although you make a decent argument for cancelling regular DLC for the Wii, we never considered that an option. We made a commitment to provide our fans with ongoing content on all three platforms, and it was important to us to keep that commitment.
    grumblevolcano;5008219 said:
    RBN is much more time consuming than regular DLC....
    Releasing RBN songs on the Wii was significantly more time consuming than releasing RBN songs for PS3 or Xbox 360, but it still wasn't greater than releasing DLC on the Wii. (It was about equal.) However, with very rare exceptions, official DLC significantly outsells RBN content to such an extent that we knew the majority of our Wii audience would prefer official DLC over RBN content, and (as indicated above) we didn't considering premature cancellation of DLC songs on the Wii to be an option.
    DavidTLynchEsq;5008089 said:
    It's a dead horse issue.
    Pretty much.
  • edited April 2013
    Nick360;5008084 said:
    They missed out on high sales potential...
    Nick360;5008217 said:
    I'm sure HMX had to spend the same amount of extra time to convert the codes to Wii with regular DLC just like RBN.
    Nick360;5008217 said:
    Looking on how well the Parry Gripp songs sold on Wii, i'm sure those songs I just mentioned in my last sentence would sell at least 1,000, better than a lot of regular DLC on Wii for sure.
    Sorry, but you're wrong. You say "I'm sure" several times, but without access to sales data, production timelines, production costs, distribution of RBN revenue, core DLC sales vs RBN sales, etc. I'm not sure how you can be so sure.

    Long story short: if we could have, we would have. Even the best selling RBN tracks on the 360 weren't finding a sizable enough audience on the Wii. The drop is too significant, in the number of Wii users that are connected, the number of Wii users buying DLC, and the number of Wii users willing to explore the RBN offerings.

    We didn't discontinue RBN releases on the Wii because we are mean or we want to deny those players content, it's because it's not viable given the amount of work required compared to the level of support it received. There's no sinister alternative motivation, it's honestly that simple.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited April 2013
    But is it true we never got MOAR MUSE because Matt Bellamy was a Wii player that did enjoy RBN?
  • edited April 2013
    jibjqrkl;5008358 said:
    But is it true we never got MOAR MUSE because Matt Bellamy was a Wii player that did enjoy RBN?

    Not true at all! It's because Drake pantsed him in grade school.

    HMXlachesis posted in the time between when I started my reply, went to a meeting, came back and finished, so now it looks a bit like an HMX pile on, which wasn't my intent. Still, reasons remain the same. Way it goes.
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5008361 said:
    Not true at all! It's because Drake pantsed him in grade school.

    HMXlachesis posted in the time between when I started my reply, went to a meeting, came back and finished, so now it looks a bit like an HMX pile on, which wasn't my intent. Still, reasons remain the same. Way it goes.
    NINJAED

    Although HMXHenry said it better than I did. He's inconveniently helpful like that.
  • edited April 2013
    HMXLachesis;5008365 said:
    NINJAED

    Although HMXHenry said it better than I did. He's inconveniently helpful like that.

    But YOU'RE the RBN authority. I'm just here to fill in the blanks.

    (I like the idea of secretly derailing this thread into a compliment-off.)
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5008368 said:
    But YOU'RE the RBN authority. I'm just here to fill in the blanks.

    (I like the idea of secretly derailing this thread into a compliment-off.)

    What a wonderful idea! I'm so glad you had it. That's the kind of great thinking you display so often.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited April 2013
    We already have a compliment thread in Less Rokk More Talk! Don't make me report this and have it moved!

    Dang kids always playing on my lawn >_>
  • edited April 2013
    jibjqrkl;5008378 said:
    We already have a compliment thread in Less Rokk More Talk! Don't make me report this and have it moved!

    Dang kids always playing on my lawn >_>
    False reports and backseat moderation WILL NOT be tolerated...

    ;)
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited April 2013
    Darn it. I would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddlin' mods and your dog!
  • GameMaster439GameMaster439 Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    Doc_SoCal;5008385 said:
    False reports and backseat moderation WILL NOT be tolerated...

    ;)

    Doc, how can we be sure that you are INDEED a doctor? ;)
  • Bront20Bront20 The Writing's on the Wall
    edited April 2013
    hmxhenry;5008357 said:
    We didn't discontinue RBN releases on the Wii because we are mean or we want to deny those players content,
    Of course not, that's just why you don't offer most free content on the Wii :D
  • HMXLachesisHMXLachesis Harmonix Alum
    edited April 2013
    Bront20;5008440 said:
    Of course not, that's just why you don't offer most free content on the Wii :D

    Dude, don't even.
  • edited April 2013
    Guys and gals, you're derailing the compliment-off.

    Don't make me ban you for being so witty and highly amusing.
  • jibjqrkljibjqrkl Eventually Perceptive
    edited April 2013
    pshh, if you could get banned for that then you would have to ban yourself every day.
  • GameMaster439GameMaster439 Road Warrior
    edited April 2013
    jibjqrkl;5008558 said:
    pshh, if you could get banned for that then you would have to ban yourself every day.

    Damn, look at Jibs with the snappy comeback :D
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