Song-Specific Changes Coming in April

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Comments

  • VolTRHVolTRH Opening Act
    edited March 2016
    While we're at it, what about problems with overcharting on guitar? Only three songs come to mind, and none of them are on the chart.

    "Pulse of the Maggots". The less egregious of the three, but there still seems to be way more notes than there actually are.

    "Scream Aim Fire". The tapping near the end of the solo has extra notes, specifically the anchored red and then green notes. I feel this was to force two-handed tapping, but as a result it made the song way harder than it needed to be.

    "Through the Fire and Flames". The run killer. The rest of the song is fine, it's just this particular part has anchored red notes which don't exist. Like with "Scream Aim Fire", I'm positive this was to get people to two-hand tap the outro. By adding the extra notes, though, the song was made way harder even with two-handed tapping.
  • VolTRH said:

    While we're at it, what about problems with overcharting on guitar? Only three songs come to mind, and none of them are on the chart.

    "Pulse of the Maggots". The less egregious of the three, but there still seems to be way more notes than there actually are.

    "Scream Aim Fire". The tapping near the end of the solo has extra notes, specifically the anchored red and then green notes. I feel this was to force two-handed tapping, but as a result it made the song way harder than it needed to be.

    "Through the Fire and Flames". The run killer. The rest of the song is fine, it's just this particular part has anchored red notes which don't exist. Like with "Scream Aim Fire", I'm positive this was to get people to two-hand tap the outro. By adding the extra notes, though, the song was made way harder even with two-handed tapping.

    @HMXCrisis would love to hear your thoughts on this! :)
  • LiveHomeVideoLiveHomeVideo Trying too hard

    LoopyChew said:

    I am most excited to see new lighting cues and whatever venue effects were missing!

    Please, please, negative camera effects on Clint Eastwood, oh please...
    I hope so, but I'm pretty sure negatives, mirrors/kaleidoscopes, distortion, frameskips, and 'security cam' effects are all removed from Rock Band 4. I also have yet to see stage fog like in previous games (Rock Band 1 era tracks had a ton of this).

    The only screen/stage effect I've seen is the black/white film effect, which is incredibly boring. But maybe that's the glitch they're trying to fix? Who knows!
    They say they're adding "missing venue FX events" and "Post Processing Fixes," which I'm going to take as at least a return of some of these effects (hoping for all of them to return, honestly).
  • blaze122blaze122 Opening Act
    @HMXCrisis Would you also be able to specify what venue FX were 'missing' from rb4? Is it the ones were all hoping for to return from rb3?
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited March 2016

    VolTRH said:

    While we're at it, what about problems with overcharting on guitar? Only three songs come to mind, and none of them are on the chart.

    "Pulse of the Maggots". The less egregious of the three, but there still seems to be way more notes than there actually are.

    "Scream Aim Fire". The tapping near the end of the solo has extra notes, specifically the anchored red and then green notes. I feel this was to force two-handed tapping, but as a result it made the song way harder than it needed to be.

    "Through the Fire and Flames". The run killer. The rest of the song is fine, it's just this particular part has anchored red notes which don't exist. Like with "Scream Aim Fire", I'm positive this was to get people to two-hand tap the outro. By adding the extra notes, though, the song was made way harder even with two-handed tapping.

    @HMXCrisis would love to hear your thoughts on this! :)
    I'd argue about Operation Ground and Pound's intro and solo 3 too. The intro should be HOPOs and the solo I was talking about (starts at 5:12) is severely overcharted.


    Here's the GH3 chart for comparison:
  • macamaticmacamatic Road Warrior
    edited March 2016
    EDIT: Nevermind. Missed the posts explaining this on the last page.
  • But I have always considered overcharting DragonForce songs kind of a tradition started since GH3
  • VolTRH said:

    It's a very unique case with "Superstition", though. That song was released back in RB3, when keys were still a thing. There isn't any actual guitar in that song, but It sounds like it does because the clavichord sound Stevie Wonder uses in the song sounds similar to a guitar. Naturally this part was charted to keys. Since there was no guitar, whatever else was left (the horns) was charted to guitar instead.

    This made sense back in RB3, and was perfectly fine then. Key players played the actual key part and guitar players could still play the clavichord part if they wanted to. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Since the charts themselves didn't change between games, guitar is now stuck with the horns part and the clavichord part is stuck in limbo.

    Playing the song now just feels wrong. I've seen people express their disappointment on these very forums after buying the song new because they were expecting to play the funky clavichord part, not the sparse horn part. And listening to the song, it's pretty easy to mistake the clavichord for a guitar anyways.

    Yeah, it was a design decision made by the DLC team, but it was one that was done with RB3 in mind, not RB4. I'm not asking the DLC team to overhaul a bunch of songs with alt-charting in mind (though I wouldn't be opposed to it). I just want you guys to reconsider this particular case and swap out the current chart with the 5-button key chart from RB3. I feel it'd be a benefit for everyone.


    I actually just checked in with our DLC team about this case. Looks like it was already on their radar, and a fix has been implemented for the April update! :smile:

    VolTRH said:

    While we're at it, what about problems with overcharting on guitar? Only three songs come to mind, and none of them are on the chart.

    "Pulse of the Maggots". The less egregious of the three, but there still seems to be way more notes than there actually are.

    "Scream Aim Fire". The tapping near the end of the solo has extra notes, specifically the anchored red and then green notes. I feel this was to force two-handed tapping, but as a result it made the song way harder than it needed to be.

    "Through the Fire and Flames". The run killer. The rest of the song is fine, it's just this particular part has anchored red notes which don't exist. Like with "Scream Aim Fire", I'm positive this was to get people to two-hand tap the outro. By adding the extra notes, though, the song was made way harder even with two-handed tapping.


    I don't have any specific updates or otherwise on these tracks. I would not expect this to be changed unless otherwise notified, however, as this is based on charting and not scoring issues.

    blaze122 said:

    @HMXCrisis Would you also be able to specify what venue FX were 'missing' from rb4? Is it the ones were all hoping for to return from rb3?


    I (WISH, BUT I) can't read minds, and don't know which ones everyone is hoping for! I do not have any further specifics as to what venue effects have been added. Sorry about that!


  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    HMXCrisis said:


    blaze122 said:

    @HMXCrisis Would you also be able to specify what venue FX were 'missing' from rb4? Is it the ones were all hoping for to return from rb3?


    I (WISH, BUT I) can't read minds, and don't know which ones everyone is hoping for! I do not have any further specifics as to what venue effects have been added. Sorry about that!


    @HMXCrisis, personally:
    - Posterize
    - Video Security
    - Film 16mm
    - Space Whoosh
    - ****ty TV
    - Clean Trails
  • VolTRHVolTRH Opening Act
    edited March 2016
    And the red filter. "Raining Blood" isn't the same without it!
    HMXCrisis said:

    I actually just checked in with our DLC team about this case. Looks like it was already on their radar, and a fix has been implemented for the April update! :smile:

    Yes, thank you! I'll finally be able to play one of my favorite songs again.
    HMXCrisis said:


    I don't have any specific updates or otherwise on these tracks. I would not expect this to be changed unless otherwise notified, however, as this is based on charting and not scoring issues.

    Well, as long as you're aware of the problems. I hope you guys decide to fix them eventually.
  • Delibird444Delibird444 Opening Act

    HMXCrisis said:


    blaze122 said:

    @HMXCrisis Would you also be able to specify what venue FX were 'missing' from rb4? Is it the ones were all hoping for to return from rb3?


    I (WISH, BUT I) can't read minds, and don't know which ones everyone is hoping for! I do not have any further specifics as to what venue effects have been added. Sorry about that!


    @HMXCrisis, personally:
    - Posterize
    - Video Security
    - Film 16mm
    - Space Whoosh
    - ****ty TV
    - Clean Trails
    Frameskips, negatives and mirrors for me.

    Frameskipping is so cool on those RB3-era 80's tracks.
  • MemoDLSGMemoDLSG Opening Act
    HMXCrisis said:

    VolTRH said:

    It's a very unique case with "Superstition", though. That song was released back in RB3, when keys were still a thing. There isn't any actual guitar in that song, but It sounds like it does because the clavichord sound Stevie Wonder uses in the song sounds similar to a guitar. Naturally this part was charted to keys. Since there was no guitar, whatever else was left (the horns) was charted to guitar instead.

    This made sense back in RB3, and was perfectly fine then. Key players played the actual key part and guitar players could still play the clavichord part if they wanted to. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Since the charts themselves didn't change between games, guitar is now stuck with the horns part and the clavichord part is stuck in limbo.

    Playing the song now just feels wrong. I've seen people express their disappointment on these very forums after buying the song new because they were expecting to play the funky clavichord part, not the sparse horn part. And listening to the song, it's pretty easy to mistake the clavichord for a guitar anyways.

    Yeah, it was a design decision made by the DLC team, but it was one that was done with RB3 in mind, not RB4. I'm not asking the DLC team to overhaul a bunch of songs with alt-charting in mind (though I wouldn't be opposed to it). I just want you guys to reconsider this particular case and swap out the current chart with the 5-button key chart from RB3. I feel it'd be a benefit for everyone.


    I actually just checked in with our DLC team about this case. Looks like it was already on their radar, and a fix has been implemented for the April update! :smile:
    Nice! Do you know if any other songs with guitar charts but that are sparse and/or boring got some keys integrated into them (songs like Somebody to Love, Take On Me, Tainted Love, Total Eclipse of the Heart, etc.)?
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    MemoDLSG said:

    Nice! Do you know if any other songs with guitar charts but that are sparse and/or boring got some keys integrated into them (songs like Somebody to Love, Take On Me, Tainted Love, Total Eclipse of the Heart, etc.)?

    Don't mess with Tainted Love! I finally got a "100% Expert Guitar" cheevo after 8 years when that song was released!
  • VolTRHVolTRH Opening Act
    "Take On Me" is fine, but I'd rather have the RB2 version of "Somebody to Love".

    As for other songs that I'd love to have alt-charting added, "Fireflies" needs it more than anything else. Other than that, "Don't Stop Me Now", and Bruno Mars 01 could use it. Everything else is fine.
  • MemoDLSG said:

    HMXCrisis said:

    VolTRH said:

    It's a very unique case with "Superstition", though. That song was released back in RB3, when keys were still a thing. There isn't any actual guitar in that song, but It sounds like it does because the clavichord sound Stevie Wonder uses in the song sounds similar to a guitar. Naturally this part was charted to keys. Since there was no guitar, whatever else was left (the horns) was charted to guitar instead.

    This made sense back in RB3, and was perfectly fine then. Key players played the actual key part and guitar players could still play the clavichord part if they wanted to. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Since the charts themselves didn't change between games, guitar is now stuck with the horns part and the clavichord part is stuck in limbo.

    Playing the song now just feels wrong. I've seen people express their disappointment on these very forums after buying the song new because they were expecting to play the funky clavichord part, not the sparse horn part. And listening to the song, it's pretty easy to mistake the clavichord for a guitar anyways.

    Yeah, it was a design decision made by the DLC team, but it was one that was done with RB3 in mind, not RB4. I'm not asking the DLC team to overhaul a bunch of songs with alt-charting in mind (though I wouldn't be opposed to it). I just want you guys to reconsider this particular case and swap out the current chart with the 5-button key chart from RB3. I feel it'd be a benefit for everyone.


    I actually just checked in with our DLC team about this case. Looks like it was already on their radar, and a fix has been implemented for the April update! :smile:
    Nice! Do you know if any other songs with guitar charts but that are sparse and/or boring got some keys integrated into them (songs like Somebody to Love, Take On Me, Tainted Love, Total Eclipse of the Heart, etc.)?
    Why would you change Total Eclipse of the Heart?!?!?!? That song is great on guitar!

    also "Take On Me" and "Somebody to Love" are great the way they are
    That's the song I was playing in RB3 the other day!

    Somebody To Love has about 45 seconds worth of guitar - 25 seconds of which is a blistering solo.. You're twiddling your thumbs for the first and last 2 minutes of the song.. it could definitely use to be tweaked for better playability..
  • firedoom666firedoom666 Headliner
    edited March 2016
    better playability is an opinion. I hate playing piano on guitar, so if they switched it back to the RB2 version I definitely would play it much less
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited March 2016

    I feel like if a song has actual guitar then don't add anything to it.

    Yep, only change stuff if there is no guitar. Superstition is fine for being changed because clavichord is more suitable than horns and there's no guitar.
  • better playability is an opinion. I hate playing piano on guitar, so if they switched it back to the RB2 version I definitely would play it much less

    I don't love playing keys with the guitar either, but it's better than literally NOT playing for 80% of the song..

    No reason we can't play the keys parts on guitar, then switch over to guitar for the solo, and back to keys again..
  • I know I am in the minority here, but also not alone

    that I would rather sit doing nothing for 80% of the song than play piano on guitar. It just kills any immersion I have.

    No one ever complains about long breaks in other instruments, but once there is a song with little guitar people complain all over wanting other stuff added to it
  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior

    pick up a mic.

    With my hands? That's a baby's game!

    On a related note, finally got a mic stand a few months ago. Really makes harmonies enjoyable when I don't want to sing lead.
  • VolTRHVolTRH Opening Act
    edited March 2016

    I know I am in the minority here, but also not alone

    that I would rather sit doing nothing for 80% of the song than play piano on guitar. It just kills any immersion I have.

    Not doing anything for 80% of the song kills my immersion. I stand up, walk away and do something else, maybe check the Internet or something. If I had stuff to do, my attention would be fully on the game for the duration of the song.

    No one ever complains about long breaks in other instruments, but once there is a song with little guitar people complain all over wanting other stuff added to it

    That's because there's no alternatives for the other instruments. You can't just make up additional drums or lyrics, and there's never been a bass part that wasn't charted to bass, be it an actual bass or a synth bass. Guitar's a different story because everything alt-charted is still treble, and some things work better than others. I know that a lot of recent favorites of mine are because of the alt-charting. I wouldn't keep coming back to "Shut Up and Dance" or "Speed Fighter" if they didn't alt-chart them.

    EDIT: also, vocalists have auxiliary percussion for the breaks.
  • VolTRH said:


    EDIT: also, vocalists have auxiliary percussion for the breaks.

    not if you are doing harmonies

    Anyways I understand there is no way everyone is gonna be happy. But I value my happiness over yours :p

    I just feel like I should state my support for songs like "Don't Stop Me Know" or "Take On Me" since if I don't HMX might thing that everyone would prefer alt charting
  • You know, I was just wondering if it would be possible to edit Terrible Lie's guitar chart and add in the key patterns, but I guess that would mean it would have to be re-tiered from the easiest song in the entire library and I haven't seen a case of that happen.
  • VolTRHVolTRH Opening Act
    edited March 2016
    There really is no compromise here. There are people who don't want alt-charting for the sake of purity, and there are people who want alt-charting for the sake of the gameplay.

    I just want songs with massive dead space in them to have alt-charting. I personally can't fathom how playing a piano on guitar takes you out of the experience, but actually playing nothing for 2 minutes doesn't.

    I don't really expect them to change the legacy charts like this, but I would certainly love it if they at least did it with "Fireflies". That song would be soooo much fun with alt-charting. But as it is, I can't bring myself to play it because it's unplayably boring. Which sucks, because I love the song.
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