The stutter / lag is real

Comments

  • rkbdgurlrkbdgurl Road Warrior
    ...they can't reliably reproduce the "bug" sounds vaguely familiar to the problem we had with the PS3 and the xmb crashes. hmmmmmm....I hate to think the stutter will never get fixed, but history says otherwise. Not holding my breath. :neutral:
  • SmashManSmashMan Rising Star

    When people are claiming it's a hardware issue though it seems weird that the PS4 can run much bigger and more pushing games than RB though. Final Fantasy could be another example, runs that almost flawless.
    This is definitely much more than a hardware issue...

    I agree with you in general - that it's more likely a software issue considering it didn't happen for many people before Rivals and suddenly became a significant issue for a lot of us after. With as many changes as they made to the game with that update, I think it's likely that something just slipped through. What that is...who knows?

    I just meant different games are designed and optimized in different ways, so it'd make more sense to compare Rock Band to itself.
    rkbdgurl said:

    ...they can't reliably reproduce the "bug" sounds vaguely familiar to the problem we had with the PS3 and the xmb crashes. hmmmmmm....I hate to think the stutter will never get fixed, but history says otherwise. Not holding my breath. :neutral:

    Yeah, that was really disheartening to read, especially after all this time.
  • SmashMan said:

    When people are claiming it's a hardware issue though it seems weird that the PS4 can run much bigger and more pushing games than RB though. Final Fantasy could be another example, runs that almost flawless.
    This is definitely much more than a hardware issue...

    I agree with you in general - that it's more likely a software issue considering it didn't happen for many people before Rivals and suddenly became a significant issue for a lot of us after. With as many changes as they made to the game with that update, I think it's likely that something just slipped through. What that is...who knows?

    I just meant different games are designed and optimized in different ways, so it'd make more sense to compare Rock Band to itself.
    rkbdgurl said:

    ...they can't reliably reproduce the "bug" sounds vaguely familiar to the problem we had with the PS3 and the xmb crashes. hmmmmmm....I hate to think the stutter will never get fixed, but history says otherwise. Not holding my breath. :neutral:

    Yeah, that was really disheartening to read, especially after all this time.
    I agree with you guys on this. It's disheartening that this may end up like the XMB bug (though you could at least play the game and enjoy it even if it did crash and you had to wait to reload..). The stuttering hasn't happened as often but I've been playing alone more now. Online play I noticed it quite a bit to the point the stuttering would render the game almost unplayable. It was only happening periodically then though so I still was playing online quite a bit when it was first released.
    Unfortunately, I haven't been playing online so not sure if the problem is worse or not now.
  • To those of you saying the Pro in boost mode fixes the issue, it does help but playing on the large stage level, coming in and out of rest mode with RB4 active or playing with multiple people all consistantly bring back the stuttering for me, independent of each other.

    No issues with any other games, and RB4 used to run very smoothly before the Rivals update.
  • nuttzo31nuttzo31 Opening Act
    edited May 3
    I urge everyone to have a good look at their tv options and turn off things like blur reduction etc.

    I purchased a fancy pants LG smart tv and there are options buried deep in the menus that have an effect on stutter and are movie optimized.

  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    the stuttering has been getting worse for me lately too. i noticed it a lot on certain venue animations. on some of the bigger venues, for example, the highway would stutter on long shots, but then go back to normal when the animation became tighter on the musician characters. i've also noticed that when it happens, it sometimes causes the music to go out of sync, like the guitar stem will be slightly out of time with the drum or vocal stem. oh if only HMX would simply implement a highway-only mode, with no venues or animations, it would probably solve this problem for a lot of people.

    it also seems like it's worse on certain nights. since last night was Tuesday, the final challenge night, i wondered if lots of people were online playing at the same time, and if there were certain background network tasks that impact the game in real time. i wasn't playing online multiplayer, so network communications shouldn't have affected me, but if those network-related functions aren't properly quarantined from other game-related tasks, there could be an impact. that would be some pretty shoddy programming though if that was the case.
  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    nuttzo31 said:

    I urge everyone to have a good look at their tv options and turn off things like blur reduction etc.

    I purchased a fancy pants LG smart tv and there are options buried deep in the menus that have an effect on stutter and are movie optimized.

    It is definitely not that lol. I have tried this game on somewhat old and newer TVs with blur reduction off on the newer ones. It stutters awful on all of them.
    I have stuttering now in solo play again, not sure why it just started all of a sudden again.
    Had some stuttering when I played online with a full band a few days ago as well.
  • nuttzo31nuttzo31 Opening Act

    nuttzo31 said:

    I urge everyone to have a good look at their tv options and turn off things like blur reduction etc.

    I purchased a fancy pants LG smart tv and there are options buried deep in the menus that have an effect on stutter and are movie optimized.

    Most modern TV's have a "Game Mode" that turns all the pre-processing off in one go. You may be right in that someone didn't turn on Game Mode and is suffering issues because of that, but I can tell you I am not one of them. The stuttering on the PS4 is a real thing that needs to be fixed.
    For my TV turning on game mode wasn't enough,I also had to turn off noise reduction and blur reduction to stop the stuttering.
  • abz999abz999 Unsigned
    ...and motion enhancements off - still doesn't fix it. It's only bad for me when you have a full band anyway which in my mind is a load or timer issue. Perhaps changes made to syncronise online play are to blame. You would have to hope that offline mode is not somehow intertwined with changes made to support online multiplayer.
  • SadSandwichSadSandwich Unsigned
    abz999 said:

    You would have to hope that offline mode is not somehow intertwined with changes made to support online multiplayer.

    It's whatever was introduced when Rivals launched. There were no issues pre-Rivals, but day one on Rival's release I got stuttering.

  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited May 4
    Given what's been mentioned in this thread, I'm thinking the Rock Central servers are the cause of the PS4 stuttering/lag issues. One thing that's common in this thread is that Rivals was the main starting point and well Rivals has increasingly relied on the Rock Central servers.

    If you think about it, pre-Rivals the servers were only used for the ingame store and leaderboard scores but even then the scores would upload later if you weren't connected so there's not much reliance of those servers. Meanwhile when Rivals came out, the servers were used for:
    - Leaderboard scores (you have to be connected for a score to be uploaded)
    - Ingame store
    - Rivals challenges (each time you play a song while a weekly challenge is active, XP and spotlight scores required)
    - Solo XP (every song is worth solo XP even if a challenge isn't active)
    - Other Rivals mode stuff in general (being able to view crew info, stats, etc.)
    - Since January, online multiplayer

    So you may ask, why were there major stuttering issues for XB1 pre-Rivals?

    Well it was simply due to the XB1 having a very bad overall setup especially from November 2015, the console would not put gaming as a top priority but instead other features like snap mode and background tasks. Microsoft started properly sorting that out from holiday 2016 onwards and before the most recent system update, RB4 has been working very well.
  • SadSandwichSadSandwich Unsigned
    I like your analysis Grumble and I also had a notion that it is being caused by something to do with the new online components introduced in Rivals. Why these things need to happen while playing a song locally (i.e. not the synchronous online MP) I don't understand. It should only connect to the servers and do what it needs to do with leaderboards, XP, etc. when a song is done playing and you are in menus.

    With these thoughts though, you may tend to think "well maybe it's a PS4 background task causing stuttering". However, as people have pointed out the PS4 can run games like The Witcher 3 and FF15 perfectly fine for hours on end. RB4 should not be more taxing than those games unless an intern wrote some very inefficient code in the Rivals update.
  • Given what's been mentioned in this thread, I'm thinking the Rock Central servers are the cause of the PS4 stuttering/lag issues. One thing that's common in this thread is that Rivals was the main starting point and well Rivals has increasingly relied on the Rock Central servers.

    If you think about it, pre-Rivals the servers were only used for the ingame store and leaderboard scores but even then the scores would upload later if you weren't connected so there's not much reliance of those servers. Meanwhile when Rivals came out, the servers were used for:
    - Leaderboard scores (you have to be connected for a score to be uploaded)
    - Ingame store
    - Rivals challenges (each time you play a song while a weekly challenge is active, XP and spotlight scores required)
    - Solo XP (every song is worth solo XP even if a challenge isn't active)
    - Other Rivals mode stuff in general (being able to view crew info, stats, etc.)
    - Since January, online multiplayer

    So you may ask, why were there major stuttering issues for XB1 pre-Rivals?

    Well it was simply due to the XB1 having a very bad overall setup especially from November 2015, the console would not put gaming as a top priority but instead other features like snap mode and background tasks. Microsoft started properly sorting that out from holiday 2016 onwards and before the most recent system update, RB4 has been working very well.

    I agree with this completely. On PS4, I never had stuttering before getting Rivals on release day. Also, the stuttering is much more likely and much worse when the servers are running slow.
  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    I always thought the XMB issue on PS3 was a Rock Central Server issue as well because it very rarely crashed for me when I was offline. RB4 has started XMBin, very little, since rivals too.
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner

    With these thoughts though, you may tend to think "well maybe it's a PS4 background task causing stuttering". However, as people have pointed out the PS4 can run games like The Witcher 3 and FF15 perfectly fine for hours on end. RB4 should not be more taxing than those games unless an intern wrote some very inefficient code in the Rivals update.

    Well regarding that, the key thing that disproves the theory of background tasks on PS4 being the cause is that the XB1 issues pre-Rivals were not just issues with RB4. XB1 games in general had the same stuttering/lag whereas for the PS4 situation it's only RB4 that's affected.
  • GraffinGraffin Rising Star
    You may be onto something there GrumbleVolcano.

    I was downloading updates for other games whilst playing RB4 and not only was the audio dropping out more, the stutter was happening a lot more frequently (every few songs).

    As you pointed out, I didn't have the stutter or audio dropouts before the Rivals expansion.

    Maybe I should try playing RB4 with my router off (not connected to the internet) and see if I experience any issues.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior

    I like your analysis Grumble and I also had a notion that it is being caused by something to do with the new online components introduced in Rivals. Why these things need to happen while playing a song locally (i.e. not the synchronous online MP) I don't understand. It should only connect to the servers and do what it needs to do with leaderboards, XP, etc. when a song is done playing and you are in menus.

    With these thoughts though, you may tend to think "well maybe it's a PS4 background task causing stuttering". However, as people have pointed out the PS4 can run games like The Witcher 3 and FF15 perfectly fine for hours on end. RB4 should not be more taxing than those games unless an intern wrote some very inefficient code in the Rivals update.

    it makes me wonder if they coded in some kind of network keep-alive task that is happening during gameplay. maybe they want to continue checking you're online while you're playing a song so they can notify you if you drop-off, before you finish and your song doesn't get uploaded to leaderboards or you don't get Rivals credit for it. you could check by starting a song, then going offline halfway through the song and seeing if anything pops up, though no notification wouldn't necessarily mean there isn't a KA happening. that could explain how network issues affect gameplay, though, once again, i have to say that would also be an indication of shoddy programming, you should be able to program a KA that doesn't impact real-time tasks like the audio and note highway display.

    also, i don't think that explains some of the animation-related stutters. at least in my experience, SOME of the stutters definitely are tied to specific venues and/or animation sequences.

    truth is, there are probably a few different causes that manifest the same or similar symptoms. just like a runny nose could be caused by different things, like allergies or a cold, stutter/lag could have several different causes, and network issues, animations, etc. are only a couple of them.
  • tnevakertnevaker Road Warrior
    BTW, on Tuesday when i was seeing more stutter than usual, i also noticed that post-song notifications like High Score and XP scores were delayed more than usual as well. definitely corroborates the network issue hypothesis.
  • nuttzo31nuttzo31 Opening Act
    akuiken98 said:

    tnevaker said:

    BTW, on Tuesday when i was seeing more stutter than usual, i also noticed that post-song notifications like High Score and XP scores were delayed more than usual as well. definitely corroborates the network issue hypothesis.

    I, personally, never had issues with lag/stuttering. @HMXOwl should come into this thread to hear what is probably causing this. I'm on PS4, so I must be really lucky.
    Same with me and I run RB4 online.

  • DangimarockerDangimarocker Headliner
    akuiken98 said:

    tnevaker said:

    BTW, on Tuesday when i was seeing more stutter than usual, i also noticed that post-song notifications like High Score and XP scores were delayed more than usual as well. definitely corroborates the network issue hypothesis.

    I, personally, never had issues with lag/stuttering. @HMXOwl should come into this thread to hear what is probably causing this. I'm on PS4, so I must be really lucky.
    About 85% of my list has issues and the other 15% have stated they've never had it happen. I had people on my list during the XMB mess of PS3 that only had it happen every so often instead of constant like I was encountering. Makes me truly wonder if it's a bug within the server code of some sort.

    Oh and i XMB'd on RB4 today again.. in the rivals weekly challenge menu.
    Had limited stuttering today at least.. only had one big stutter during Jeremy.
  • edited May 5
    I have both the PS4 and XB1 version of RB4 and I can definitely say that PS4 RB4 started stuttering very badly almost two weeks ago and hasn't been working right since. XB1 version is perfect minus the server connections over the last weekend. I don't know what it could be that's causing lag.

    Also, as a side note, I noticed something abnormal. I will be playing RB4 on XB1 with my friends online and I will talk to them through the headset that's connected to my regular XB1 controller. When my controller turns off after 10 minutes, the note highway stutters while the controller turns off. Just thought I would point this out.
  • edited May 5
    Question for the PS4 players who have never seen stuttering: Do you ever have a problem connecting to the server? Do you ever see delays in things like retrieving crew information or leaderboards loading?

    BTW, I was lucky to never have the XMB problem on PS3, but my RB4 stuttering is bad. I don't know if it's related, but I've always had trouble connecting to the server. This past week it was only a little worse than usual.
  • SadSandwichSadSandwich Unsigned
    Hmm thinking back to the XMB problem on PS3 now, I remember that at RB3 launch I got kicked out to the XMB all the time. Once infamously during the last song of the endless setlist (playing expert) where I had to restrain myself from smashing my guitar. As time went on, it happened less and less until it never happened anymore and I played RB3 constantly all the way up until RB4 released. I wonder if the bug was caused by load on the servers that means as time went on the number of people concurrently playing RB3 became less and less which might correlate to my getting the XMB bug less and less until it basically didn't happen anymore.

    I had just assumed either an update from Sony or HMX managed to solve the issue....

    In any case, I am surprised to hear the XMB bug is happening to @Dangimarocker on PS4. I have never experienced it on PS4 in either vanilla RB4 or Rivals. Just the stuttering when Rivals launched.

    I think I will also try @Graffin's idea and disconnect my PS4 from the internet when I play for the next couple sessions and see if that does anything.
  • LarryLafferLarryLaffer Unsigned
    I tried everything: rebuilding the ps4 database, logging in all profiles and instruments before starting the game, disconnecting internet, disconnecting the camera, not going into the dashboard while playing etc. It all helped a bit but the stutter is still bad enough to make me go back to RB3.
  • I think I experienced a bit of stuttering this week when a friend came over to play - it wasn't so bad (as in, it happened for a few seconds at the start of the song and then stopped) and, curiously enough, only showed up when I went to play vocals. When we were both playing instruments (drum and guitar) the game was running perfectly.

    The PS4 was connected to the internet, but I don't remember if I was connected to the Rock Central servers (as it's quite a chore to connect to them sometimes).
  • jaystonepkjaystonepk Opening Act

    Question for the PS4 players who have never seen stuttering: Do you ever have a problem connecting to the server? Do you ever see delays in things like retrieving crew information or leaderboards loading?

    BTW, I was lucky to never have the XMB problem on PS3, but my RB4 stuttering is bad. I don't know if it's related, but I've always had trouble connecting to the server. This past week it was only a little worse than usual.

    I've only seen the stutter once so I'd say I qualify as a non problem user. This past weekend from Friday through Tuesday connecting in general and refreshing crew information was PAINFULLY slow. The app was dreadfully slow as well. I've seen this behavior maybe a handful of times since Rivals launch. I've had one instance where I couldn't connect to Rock Central at all and it was, 2-3 weeks ago perhaps.

    The only time I distinctly recall stuttering was while I was in tour mode playing the final 5-song setlist. Perfect time for it to show up too, on 5 of the most difficult songs on disc. It was one of the large arena venues and it started mid-way through the first song. Every song after that stuttered and it was much worse on wide shods with lots of light flicker. When the camera zoomed in the stuttering nearly vanished, only to turned again on wide shots.
  • Hey everyone, I figured I'd go ahead and add my experience since I stumbled across this thread today.

    I'll start with my set up:
    -Release PS4
    -Rock Band Rivals
    -Mad Catz instruments as well as the newer PDP instruments and legacy instruments from RB1 on the PS3
    -A not insignificant amount of DLC (451 songs total)
    -Vizio TV: Game mode turned on and every processing feature turned off
    -Audio is currently routed through the TV to an external head unit

    I have been pretty lucky and only experience the stutter when playing with a friend, never while I'm playing solo (knock on wood) but it happens pretty much every time we play it together (guitar and drums). Tonight I'll go ahead and test it with different instruments (mainly the legacy ones) and maybe try an optical audio hookup and see if anything changes. By the way if anyone wants a guinea pig to test stuff they think might help just let me know, I have a bit of free time for now, different kinds of TVs and few different "unconventional" audio options. Hope this gets sorted soon!
  • nuttzo31nuttzo31 Opening Act
    edited May 8
    Maybe if someone made a template of questions it may narrow down the issue

    Like ps4 model
    Tv model
    Amount of dlc
    HDMI or Optical sound output
    Solo or online/band play.
    Console connected to internet etc.

    Im using a regular white non pro ps4 with optical sound out and my experience is butter smooth apart from one occasion where a green day song was stuttery.

    I still believe that the tv model is significant because fancy tvs have alot of movie optimization and maybe some can't be disabled but that wouldn't account for audio stutter.
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